MA Gun Grab 2024: H.4885 - Passed legislature, headed to the governor

[EJFudd]

Oh, agreed. I am not saying that the handgun roster is good although to be honest as long as the competition pistols are allowed having a pistol roster really only bothers me on 2A principle .
My observation was towards the poster that said Glocks will be (again) unobtainable to which I mused that Glocks are on the roster and most likely not going anywhere. That is all.

On a separate note - A sub-$300 pistol? Why on Earth would you want to subject yourself to such?

Not to belabor points already addressed, but consider the situation for the legit gun collector living in this Godawful one-party state. Both the Approved Roster and the AWB are major hindrances to collecting... maybe not so much for the guy or gal who is only concerned about personal defense and is perfectly willing to choose a cheap plastic Ruger or Smith off of the Approved Roster. But go beyond the most basic minimums for protection and into the world of even minimal collecting as it exists outside of the worst anti-2A states and you'd find that the Approved Roster (in particular) is a nasty and wholly unnecessary absurdity.

 

[Amputee Marksman]

Yes. When they "grandfather" guns and most of NES rushes to register their lowers, they will come after those registered guns.

So here is the situation. You have a few of the evil killy rifles and a bunch of other firearms. You know which ones are in the system via FA10. Maybe you even paid the state for the txn list so you would have a better idea of what they know about.

Do you:
A. Register Nothing
B. Register only what the state knows about
C. Register everything

If you don't register what the state knows about does that not give them a reason to come looking for it and potentially discover anything you might hypothetically have this is illegal? Or maybe the state doesn't come looking for anything but instead waits for your LTC to be renewed and they ask you about the firearms when you renew. Or maybe the state waits until you mess up and get in some trouble and then comes looking for the firearms.

 

[Amputee Marksman]

On a separate note - A sub-$300 pistol? Why on Earth would you want to subject yourself to such?

Because you hardly make enough money to survive and live in a POS place like, insert your favorite scummy MA town/city here, and want to have something to protect yourself.

 

[Picton]

So here is the situation. You have a few of the evil killy rifles and a bunch of other firearms. You know which ones are in the system via FA10. Maybe you even paid the state for the txn list so you would have a better idea of what they know about.

Do you:
A. Register Nothing
B. Register only what the state knows about
C. Register everything

If you don't register what the state knows about does that not give them a reason to come looking for it and potentially discover anything you might hypothetically have this is illegal? Or maybe the state doesn't come looking for anything but instead waits for your LTC to be renewed and they ask you about the firearms when you renew. Or maybe the state waits until you mess up and get in some trouble and then comes looking for the firearms.

I'll be careful how I phrase this:

I would probably follow the law as written at the time you acquire said firearms.

That's it.

 

[Broc Tuah]

So here is the situation. You have a few of the evil killy rifles and a bunch of other firearms. You know which ones are in the system via FA10. Maybe you even paid the state for the txn list so you would have a better idea of what they know about.

Do you:
A. Register Nothing
B. Register only what the state knows about
C. Register everything

If you don't register what the state knows about does that not give them a reason to come looking for it and potentially discover anything you might hypothetically have this is illegal? Or maybe the state doesn't come looking for anything but instead waits for your LTC to be renewed and they ask you about the firearms when you renew. Or maybe the state waits until you mess up and get in some trouble and then comes looking for the firearms.

How can the State know about something you didn't register?

 

[FisherTech]

I'll be careful how I phrase this:

I would probably follow the law as written at the time you acquire said firearms.

That's it.

The FRB still has firearms on their rolls that I have long disposed of through an FFL. Their records are questionable at best. I believe there is a State Police Lt. That was being investigated for Citation Issues and when the Senior Jack Booted Thugs couldn't get him, they went and pulled his Dept issued LTC and then demanded that he surrender all his firearms. They tried to charge for not surrendering firearms that he disposed. They lost the whole case and he is still a State Police Lt. but a very wealthy one.

 

[Joeldiaz]

Case law is informative and his decisions are written like a template for others to base their own arguments on.

The 9th's only argument against his opinions is "because we say so".
Hell, they are asking why "in common use" is not restricted to only California guns since the ban is a Cali law in order to strike down St Benitez.

You act as though there’s no such thing as a circuit split. Nothing is “informative” to the anti-2A judges here in the 1st Circuit. We already had a judge here in MA go against Benitez’s opinion on common use and uphold the MA gun ban (NAGR v.Campbell). We will get no relief here until SCOTUS intervenes.

 

[Amputee Marksman]

How can the State know about something you didn't register?

They can use the eFA10 records regardless of how bad the data is as a basis to go fishing.

 

[Broc Tuah]

They can use the eFA10 records regardless of how bad the data is as a basis to go fishing.

That is not how the sale of lowers and frames work. There is no FA10.

 

[EJFudd]

So here is the situation. You have a few of the evil killy rifles and a bunch of other firearms. You know which ones are in the system via FA10. Maybe you even paid the state for the txn list so you would have a better idea of what they know about.

Do you:
A. Register Nothing
B. Register only what the state knows about
C. Register everything

If you don't register what the state knows about does that not give them a reason to come looking for it and potentially discover anything you might hypothetically have this is illegal? Or maybe the state doesn't come looking for anything but instead waits for your LTC to be renewed and they ask you about the firearms when you renew. Or maybe the state waits until you mess up and get in some trouble and then comes looking for the firearms.

I don't have any advice other than to offer my thought that whatever new or rehashed registration system the state comes up with... the state is NOT going to throw away all the data contained within the existing registration system. Rather, that will be their starting point if a new system is to be developed.

Rumors and stories about the existing registration system being a completely useless (to the state) joke are greatly exaggerated.

So assume that anything in the existing database will be carried over into any new database. To assume otherwise would be foolish.

 

[Amputee Marksman]

That is not how the sale of lowers and frames work. There is no FA10.

OK. My bad. I was referring to full complete firearms, not lowers or frames.

 

[Mesatchornug]

So here is the situation. You have a few of the evil killy rifles and a bunch of other firearms. You know which ones are in the system via FA10. Maybe you even paid the state for the txn list so you would have a better idea of what they know about.

Do you:
A. Register Nothing
B. Register only what the state knows about
C. Register everything

If you don't register what the state knows about does that not give them a reason to come looking for it and potentially discover anything you might hypothetically have this is illegal? Or maybe the state doesn't come looking for anything but instead waits for your LTC to be renewed and they ask you about the firearms when you renew. Or maybe the state waits until you mess up and get in some trouble and then comes looking for the firearms.

Pretend for a second that you're not on NES.

How do you know these changes happened? How do you know what you're supposed to do to comply?

Maybe you're just like the hundreds of thousands of "lifetime" LTCs that were "administratively expired" in '98...

 

[FisherTech]

Folks, I unassed that state almost 19 years ago and retired from it 14 years ago yesterday. I know that you are going through a very trying event. My two cents is to push to have the cop carve out removed from the legislation.
Further, I have said this before and will say it again. When the police come to your club looking for a range or ranges to train and qualify on, ask if their chief belongs to MCOP Association, if yes. Sorry, go some where else. Not saying members of the dept can't be members just no dept training.

 

[Broc Tuah]

OK. My bad. I was referring to full complete firearms, not lowers or frames.

In that case they are already registered at time of purchase. Therefore there is nothing you need to do unless the State wants to create a new database and demand people re-register those guns, which, at least right now, they are not doing.

I don't know the full history of FA10s, maybe there was a time when it didn't exist and you are asking about people registering those guns? ... Anyway, in that case, the State doesn't know.

 

[not new guy]

Pretend for a second that you're not on NES.

How do you know these changes happened? How do you know what you're supposed to do to comply?

I think about this often. Based on talking to randos in line at gun stores, at 2A rallies, and at the club, and to the few gun owners I know personally, it seems like the vast majority are oblivious to existing law and have zero awareness of the laws coming down the pike. All of their knowledge about the rules of the game comes from gun shop employees and their cop friends. I'm not sure I'd be much different if it wasn't for NES.

 

[Bmcl322]

So here is the situation. You have a few of the evil killy rifles and a bunch of other firearms. You know which ones are in the system via FA10. Maybe you even paid the state for the txn list so you would have a better idea of what they know about.

Do you:
A. Register Nothing
B. Register only what the state knows about
C. Register everything

If you don't register what the state knows about does that not give them a reason to come looking for it and potentially discover anything you might hypothetically have this is illegal? Or maybe the state doesn't come looking for anything but instead waits for your LTC to be renewed and they ask you about the firearms when you renew. Or maybe the state waits until you mess up and get in some trouble and then comes looking for the firearm

A sticky wicket, indeed.

 

[Mesatchornug]

I think about this often. Based on talking to randos in line at gun stores, at 2A rallies, and at the club, and to the few gun owners I know personally, it seems like the vast majority are oblivious to existing law and have zero awareness of the laws coming down the pike. All of their knowledge about the rules of the game comes from gun shop employees and their cop friends. I'm not sure I'd be much different if it wasn't for NES.

Same.

 

[Grendizer138]

I think about this often. Based on talking to randos in line at gun stores, at 2A rallies, and at the club, and to the few gun owners I know personally, it seems like the vast majority are oblivious to existing law and have zero awareness of the laws coming down the pike. All of their knowledge about the rules of the game comes from gun shop employees and their cop friends. I'm not sure I'd be much different if it wasn't for NES.

I have a friend who insists these laws don’t apply to you at your residence; e.g. you can have pmags and non-compliant stuff in your home. Which is true from a practical perspective I guess.

The real danger is the “you don’t have anything to worry about if you’re not doing anything wrong” philosophy that most boomercons have. No one ever believes me that you literally need a lawyer to adhere to the gun laws in this state.

 

[bigbravehog]

Pretend for a second that you're not on NES.

How do you know these changes happened? How do you know what you're supposed to do to comply?

Maybe you're just like the hundreds of thousands of "lifetime" LTCs that were "administratively expired" in '98...

that's a great point. I'm sure Maura will do the anti-gun tour/dance.
I spoke to a few friends a a local sportmans club who had no idea about the original house bill 4420.
They are paying attention now.

 

[not new guy]

No one ever believes me that you literally need a lawyer to adhere to the gun laws in this state.

And even then there's a huge element of guessing/uncertainty.

 

[not new guy]

I stopped by a friend's house last night and asked him what he thought about this bill. This guy just got hit LTC within the past couple of months and basically owns one pistol. He hadn't heard a word about it and immediately started worrying about what he has to hurry up and buy. I considered sending him to this thread but pictured him getting lost in 38+ pages of speculation. Even the GOAL summary presupposes a knowledge of the existing law that he just doesn't have.

 

[Bmcl322]

Folks, I unassed that state almost 19 years ago and retired from it 14 years ago yesterday. I know that you are going through a very trying event. My two cents is to push to have the cop carve out removed from the legislation.
Further, I have said this before and will say it again. When the police come to your club looking for a range or ranges to train and qualify on, ask if their chief belongs to MCOP Association, if yes. Sorry, go some where else. Not saying members of the dept can't be members just no dept training.

Love this! 100% agree.... Only thing - plenty of Cops that I'm friends with are 100% on our side.

 

[FisherTech]

Love this! 100% agree.... Only thing - plenty of Cops that I'm friends with are 100% on our side.

Oh Well!! They have to learn that like the firearms owners, they are graded by the "Few Bad Apples". There is no place for feeling sorry for them. That is an emotional weakness.

 

[Grendizer138]

Love this! 100% agree.... Only thing - plenty of Cops that I'm friends with are 100% on our side.

If they’re silent they’re not “on our side,” they just sympathize with us.

 

[Amputee Marksman]

I don't know the full history of FA10s, maybe there was a time when it didn't exist and you are asking about people registering those guns? ... Anyway, in that case, the State doesn't know.

Exactly, if you are old enough to have an LTC and firearms prior to 1998 then you most likely have some the state is not aware of.

FA10 started in 98. Before that "blue cards". How many blue cards were scanned in and digitized is open to speculation.

 

[1903Collector]

I have a friend who insists these laws don’t apply to you at your residence; e.g. you can have pmags and non-compliant stuff in your home. Which is true from a practical perspective I guess.

The real danger is the “you don’t have anything to worry about if you’re not doing anything wrong” philosophy that most boomercons have. No one ever believes me that you literally need a lawyer to adhere to the gun laws in this state.

Unil you have an EMS call at your house or some shit like that. When My MIL was alive we had the rescue/popo at the house a number of times. I would freak out if I wasn't home thinking "f***, did I leave anything out or unlocked?" And I'm not even talking about a firearm but a magazine, holster, anything gun related really, anything to give them an excuse to look around your house and "secure it".

 

[Broc Tuah]

Exactly, if you are old enough to have an LTC and firearms prior to 1998 then you most likely have some the state is not aware of.

Still, in that case the State doesn't know.

So, the only way for the State to know is:
1. You bought a complete gun from an FFL at a time when the FA10 existed.
2. You bought a gun through a private transaction at a time when the FA10 existed.
3. You bought a lower or frame and did an FA10 when you turned it into a gun.

So, there is nothing the State doesn't know, but knows about. Point B below.

Do you:
A. Register Nothing
B. Register only what the state knows about
C. Register everything

 

[CrackPot]

Oh, agreed. I am not saying that the handgun roster is good although to be honest as long as the competition pistols are allowed having a pistol roster really only bothers me on 2A principle .
My observation was towards the poster that said Glocks will be (again) unobtainable to which I mused that Glocks are on the roster and most likely not going anywhere. That is all.

On a separate note - A sub-$300 pistol? Why on Earth would you want to subject yourself to such?

Proving yet again you are a clueless FUDD. Glocks are on the roster but cannot be sold or transferred by dealers because they violate 940CMR16. They are sold in pieces via frame transfer which the new bill will make impossible.

They are on the roster so dealers can sell to cops since cops sales are not subject to the consumer safety regulations, 940CMR16.

The only reason regular people can get glocks today is because of frame transfers. When that goes away, you are all screwed.

Continuing to comment that they are on the roster shows your lack of understanding of ALL the laws and your unwillingness to learn.

 

[Grendizer138]

You know shit’s real when Randy gets spicy.

 

[not new guy]

Spicier