MA Gun Grab 2024: H.4885 - Passed legislature, headed to the governor

[HARRYM]

Sen Spilka's office phone number going straight to voice-mail now. Their phone must be ringing off the hook!

Or...its off the hook....

 

[Cavpilot2k]

You miss the point. It is not about glocks. It is about all the guns our betters at THE STATE don't think a dealer should transfer to you. Glocks are an obvious example that everyone knows about. The glock 19 is the most popular handgun in America and unavailable to the residents of MA.

Yes. YOU get the point. Thank god someone can think critically.

No, I don't miss the point. The Glock issue in MA has been here for well over a decade. It has little to nothing to do with the current legislation except that they will close the loophole that requires you to jump through 14 hoops to get one.
I turn it back to you - if closing the GLock "loophole" to getting one was the ONLY thing in this legislation, would we all be here discussing it? A handful of fanboys, sure, but most of us have gone a different route long ago.
Call me a "compromiser", but if the only thing we had to give up was Glocks, I would dance happily in the street. I live in the real world and I look at it through the lenses of realism.
I do understand the "canary" logic, but like I said, the Glock issue has been an issue for a long time and is not new.

 

[Agnotology]

Sand in the gears. It's not blaming the officers, it's making it clear that the police are on their own if they're going to leave the rest of us out in the cold.

Let me ask this, how do you know if a particular municipality's Chief of Police is part of MCOPA?

 

[CrackPot]

MGL section 140 chapters 121-131Y are where the laws reside the effect lawful licensed gun owners/dealers
MGL section 269 chapters 10-10K are where the laws reside the effect unlawful parties that are not licensed to own/sell guns

The senate bill is 35 pages

24 pages are dedicated to changes in section 140 chapters 121-131Y
2 pages are dedicated to changes in section 269 chapters 10-10K

The remaining 5 pages are other random crap including DEI, commissions, etc

So of the truly material portions of the senate bill, 92% of the changes are focused DIRECTLY at licensed gun owners and dealers and a mere 8% are about criminals.

So anyone who says this is about safety, gun violence and illegal activity is either stupid, lying or both.

 

[CrackPot]

No, I don't miss the point. The Glock issue in MA has been here for well over a decade. It has little to nothing to do with the current legislation except that they will close the loophole that requires you to jump through 14 hoops to get one.
I turn it back to you - if closing the GLock "loophole" to getting one was the ONLY thing in this legislation, would we all be here discussing it? A handful of fanboys, sure, but most of us have gone a different route long ago.
Call me a "compromiser", but if the only thing we had to give up was Glocks, I would dance happily in the street. I live in the real world and I look at it through the lenses of realism.
I do understand the "canary" logic, but like I said, the Glock issue has been an issue for a long time and is not new.

ok, compromiser.

ITS NOT ABOUT GLOCKS. You cannot have a desert eagle 1911 or DE50. You cannot have a CZ75. You cannot have a HK USP45. You cannot have a ... The list is endless. The roster provides no benefit to the resident of MA and is purely an infringement for no good reason. The new law will remove the primary way around this infringement. That is the point.

That you CHOOSE to not care or want guns your betters tell you that you are allowed to have is fine.

There is no Glock issue. There is a roster and infringement issue.

 

[not new guy]

No. No they aren't. The State Police are "The State". May be the case out east, but not here in Western MA. Yes, there are enclaves - Amherst PD comes to mind. But I don't even know who is part of MCOPA.

"The State" is a generic reference to our government, at all levels. Cops are The State's enforcers. The king's men, if you will. When one of us gets arrested under this new law it will cops hauling us away from our families, not politicians.

 

[CrackPot]

Randy.. adding to what the other person said in thanking you for always being a good middle man to help put lawyer jargon into laymen’s terms.

I searched a few pages but there’s so many damn comments already I couldn’t find the answer to what I’m looking for.. question: if the amended bill as is goes through, how are semi auto rifles that previously met the requirements for MA compliance affected? It seems as if someone built an AR patterned rifle, the 2 evil features allotment is still in there, but I’m not sure if the immediately prior sentence would ban them due to being copies of the colt ar15. Or are they not copies because they don’t have the collapsible stock and threaded barrel?

If they’re considered copies despite being previously ma compliant, does that mean every single semi auto rifle post 94 has to be sold/transferred out of state or destroyed regardless of whether or not it meets ma compliance?

My head hurts.

without amendment all your semi-auto rifles are likely now illegal assault weapons and you are a multiple felon. I posted very early on in this thread my prediction that they would grandfather us. The only question is how and what exact language. We all await to see what bill reaches the floor for final vote after amendments.

 

[Agnotology]

No, not really. But my patience is growing thin on this fascist shit. They pulled a 180 from where they were and there needs to be accountability; the only methods at our disposal are punishing places that continue to do business with them.

Plus I like gangsta rap, and at least I didn’t post a Ganksta NIP picture.

+respect for NWA, but I'm more of a Warren G and Nate Dogg feel. Regulators, mount up!

I think there is a serious divide between how the Eastern / Central MA Departments operate and the western MA ones.

 

[pastera]

Who is they? Every person in every department who's chief has signed up for MCOPA? The fresh out of academy rookie who is still on their probationary period?

Private ranges are under ZERO obligation to allow their facilities to be used for government use.
If that rookie wants to train, let them pay for their own training.

Again - those same police will enforce those laws that treat me, a lawful gun owner, as if my guns are responsible for criminals murdering people

I am proposing to treat them much better than they are proposing for myself

 

[not new guy]

Let me ask this, how do you know if a particular municipality's Chief of Police is part of MCOPA?

Who cares? Make them all feel the consequences of this bullshit. They're not going to otherwise.

 

[milktree]

The way I read the first suggestion implied denying any PD officers being members of your club.

... in their role as officers. If a cop wants to joint a club on his/her own, they're not doing it AS A COP.

The cops come to your house and kill your dog and take you away in handcuffs and steal all your guns. If they're not "the state", then absolutely, individual cops *SHOULD* be punished.

How bad are all of your local departments? Jesus Christ, I've been saved 3 or 4 times from felonies BECAUSE of my local PD. Maybe I just have a really good department. Who knows.

You live in a terrible town. The point is that the state isn't some abstract concept, it's made up with people who enforce state policy, with violence if necessary. if you're representing the state, your *ARE* the state.

If you're not representing the state, you're not.

<Godwin's rule>
If you sit down at a table with four Nazis, there are five Nazis at the table.
</Godwin's rule>

 

[Grendizer138]

Someone make a thread (maybe with a poll) on how to best make cops accountable so we can keep on topic here.

 

[milktree]

Let me ask this, how do you know if a particular municipality's Chief of Police is part of MCOPA?

Well, since *ALL* Mass Chiefs are members, I'm pretty sure it's not even an interesting question.

 

[DW357]

So I say again, is ready access to Glocks, which we haven't had in at least 12 years, really your chief concern?

 

[Mesatchornug]

The way I read the first suggestion implied denying any PD officers being members of your club.

So let's clear it up quickly.

This entire tangent came when you replied to a post that replied to this post:

Folks, I unassed that state almost 19 years ago and retired from it 14 years ago yesterday. I know that you are going through a very trying event. My two cents is to push to have the cop carve out removed from the legislation.
Further, I have said this before and will say it again. When the police come to your club looking for a range or ranges to train and qualify on, ask if their chief belongs to MCOP Association, if yes. Sorry, go some where else. Not saying members of the dept can't be members just no dept training.

Oh!......this will be my first sentence at the next meeting.

Are so and so PD a member of MCOPA? If so......we need to revoke their right to train here right here and right now!

They do not stand with us, we do not give them a place to shoot and tell them why.

Sending an email right now to put it on the agenda.

i.e., any department that is part of MCOPA and hasn't denounced this bill should be refused the privilege of training at the poster's range. Individual officers would be free to join clubs and train like the civilians they are.

 

[not new guy]

There's a reason that dickhead from MACOPA's grinning mug has been all over the news with this bill, and it's because of the very simple fact that the police supporting it carries significant weight. For better or worse that traitor is perceived as speaking for all law enforcement in MA. Until a single department, chief or even a goddamn cop speaks up publicly they can all sit in that same boat.

 

[CrackPot]

Just after Christmas 2023 @EddieCoyle stopped by the shop and said he had run across something that he HAD to buy for me when he found it.





Anyone who is butt hurt by any of my comments here, please see the above sign. It applies in spades...

 

[Agnotology]

Well, since *ALL* Mass Chiefs are members, I'm pretty sure it's not even an interesting question.

Based on other replies, this is not the case. Can you point to anything that backs this up, apart from them claiming they have 500+ "COP"'s in membership?

 

[milktree]

No, this is like blaming the employee for what his VP of Operations did. and in some cases, the VP of Operations of another company.

It's all one company. We're not talking about cops from NH here.

And yes, when the gas company has some idiotic policy that makes my life difficult, I will absolutely make it difficult for the gas company to enact that policy. It makes it take longer for the peon to execute the policy, which costs the company money and makes the VP of Operations look bad.

I'm not going to directly be an a**h*** to the peon, but I'm going to politely make it hard for him to do his job.

 

[Agnotology]

So let's clear it up quickly.

This entire tangent came when you replied to a post that replied to this post:


i.e., any department that is part of MCOPA and hasn't denounced this bill should be refused the privilege of training at the poster's range. Individual officers would be free to join clubs and train like the civilians they are.

This I can get behind.

 

[BigGreen2000]

Just got through to Sen Spilka's secretary, who sounds quite exasperated.

 

[Mark from ?]

The way I read the first suggestion implied denying any PD officers being members of your club.

There's a reason that dickhead from MACOPA's grinning mug has been all over the news with this bill, and it's because of the very simple fact that the police supporting it carries significant weight. For better or worse that traitor is perceived as speaking for all law enforcement in MA. Until a single department, chief or even a goddamn cop speaks up publicly they can all sit in that same boat.

This.

Like other states where certain Sheriffs or Chiefs speak out say they won't enforce any new laws in their jurisdiction. Where are these mother fxckers in MA?

No.....they all stand together.....every.....fxcking.......time. Once they are exempted....they could give a rats ass.

Im waiting for someone with balls to stand up in that organization for our civil rights.

Yes....please......just one of you 351 or whatever cities and towns in that POS organization. Come out and back us.

Until then they can all suck a bat.

Wonder why NES seems anti cop ?? Well this is why.

 

[Agnotology]

This.

Like other states where certain Sheriffs or Chiefs speak out say they won't enforce any new laws in their jurisdiction. Where are these mother fxckers in MA?

No.....they all stand together.....

Im waiting for someone with balls to stand up in that organization for our civil rights. Until then they can all suck a bat.

I don't think there is a news organization that would bother reporting such a press conference. I do wish we had some Sheriff Grady Judd up here in MA

 

[Rob Boudrie]

There is no Glock issue.

The Glock issue is separate from why you cannot get all those other guns in MA.

Glocks are on the roster. Maura (when AG) declared the loaded chamber indicator is not effective. Comm2a appealed in the first circuit, and the court ruled 'all AG claims accepted as fact, all plaintiff's claims rejected, summary judgment for AG, Comma will not get its day in court."

 

[Cavpilot2k]

ok, compromiser.

ITS NOT ABOUT GLOCKS. You cannot have a desert eagle 1911 or DE50. You cannot have a CZ75. You cannot have a HK USP45. You cannot have a ... The list is endless. The roster provides no benefit to the resident of MA and is purely an infringement for no good reason. The new law will remove the primary way around this infringement. That is the point.

That you CHOOSE to not care or want guns your betters tell you that you are allowed to have is fine.

There is no Glock issue. There is a roster and infringement issue.

I do not disagree with the roster being a BS infringement issue. There are plenty of firearms, especially handguns (sure I have a few ARs, but I am a handgun guy) I would LOVE to have but I can't purchase here. It is a supreme annoyance, but in 14 years it hasn't forced me to move out of state because I can't get a VP9SK, and I still find plenty to buy. Also, the roster has been around for a long time and has nothing to do with the whole point of this thread, which is the senate legislation.
And the reason I posted about Glocks is (if you will notice my quote in the original post) is beacuse you were talking about Glocks specifically and said it will outlaw GLocks so "you are all screwed". It is THAT comment that was focusing on Glocks, saying "we" are all screwed because the new legislation cements a ban on GLocks that has been a soft ban for well over a decade.
The comment I responded to had nothing to do with the roster, only your supposition that if we can't get Glocks we are screwed.
I am not looking to argue with anyone here, only suggesting we keep our eyes on the big picture, which is NOT Glocks.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

I am not looking to argue with anyone here, only suggesting we keep our eyes on the big picture, which is NOT Glocks.

QFTMFT

 

[MainelyFree]

Hi, Is this Senator KAG’s office? I'm Chris from NES, would you dela....

NO!!

Shuts door in face.

FIFY

 

[B191299]

Just got through to Sen Spilka's secretary, who sounds quite exasperated.

I spoke to her too. She was pleasant and immediately knew my concerns.

 

[milktree]

Based on other replies, this is not the case. Can you point to anything that backs this up, apart from them claiming they have 500+ "COP"'s in membership?

Let me google that for you:

Home

www.masschiefs.org

"The MCOPA is comprised of nearly 500 municipal and campus law enforcement executives and commanders in Massachusetts."


There are only 351 municipalities in Mass. clearly you can see that "nearly 500" is quite a lot more than 351


So, I'm pretty damn sure it covers all, or nearly all, the chiefs in Mass.

 

[Grendizer138]

Cop talk

S.2572: How should we hold cops accountable?

Well? For the record, I actively pleaded with everyone here to try to get their PDs to oppose the House bill, and I was pleasantly surprised when the MACOPA unanimously opposed it. But now that Chief Gillis is supporting the Senate version and the chiefs and PDs are silent about it, I think...

www.northeastshooters.com