Mesatchornug
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His point is that they're representative of the problem - a canary, if you will.
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MA Gun Grab 2024: H.4885 - Passed legislature, headed to the governor
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Not looking to start a war with the police or officers. But at some point the officers need to question their leadership as to if they pro civil rights or not? These chiefs have no problem getting cucked by BLM...but really won't stand for 2A gun ownership rights? Fxck them then.
If they are blaming US for closing up shop on their training range, then they are barking up the wrong fxcking tree. They should be going to their leaders and telling them to pull out of MCOPA.
Looking to simply ask a PD if they affiliate with an anti civil rights group and if so, maybe they should revisit that affiliation.
Until then they aren't welcome to train at our facility, because its that affiliation is not aligned with our pro 2A mission statement.
I mean really...in this instance, MCOPA is no better than a Moms Demand Action Group or whatever anti gun shitclown group. Would we let them use our facility for a rally or an outing or whatever??? Fxck NO!!!
MCOPA gets off scot free once they get their balls rubbed by the legislators, we are treated as serfs, and I'm fxcking sick of this shit. That group NEVER backs us when push comes to shove, why should we back them or give anyone affiliated with them the time of day.
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Sand in the gears. It's not blaming the officers, it's making it clear that the police are on their own if they're going to leave the rest of us out in the cold.
Mesatchornug
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He's definitionally not. He said the individuals are welcome to apply on their own; what he proposed is that the departments - who have, in their official capacity, said they support the bill - should not be supported.
pastera
NES Member
Here is what I find overwhelming when it comes to a person's right to keep and bear arms - EVERYTHING THE GOVERNMENT DOES.If you think that $600 gun and the cost of classes and licensing is overwhelming - we agree to disagree. Money are not what they used to be and if such a sum is problematic for you- I hate to tell you but you have other bigger (and more existential) issues. No, I am not being elitist- just observing how folks live and what they spend their money on. Edit: When I say "you" I dont mean you in particular. I thought this was quite obvious due to the fact that none of us in this thread have -one- or -no- guns due to financial constraints.
The posture of an individual on a subject is a ratio of (perceived) direct personal impact vs. community impact/ principle. That ratio is different for different folks. In my previous messages I have shown the personal impact on me (very small). Now lets talk about the other number of the ratio- my take on the public impact. I am doing all I can to slow down the erosion of our rights - I am a heavy donor to GOAL and COMM2A and I have called and written to my local representatives. I have trained countless number of new gun owners on how to leave the range with the same number of holes they got in with and how to be responsible owners. I am a certified USPSA official and I actively volunteer at matches (btw, Area 7 registration for 2024 is open- do sign up!!!). So yeah- I am doing my part. So see? looks can be deceiving. There are a few folks here that know me in real life and they know I am prolly the opposite of a fudd guy
BUT
That does not change what is coming. Lets be real. No amount of donating, calling, writing or picketing the Hill will change that. The only way we can win this in the great state of MA is through protracted and expensive litigation. And to flame me for for that statement and if anybody thinks otherwise is just a sign of having unrealistic expectations.
How this is going to go is we will buy all the guns we want/ can before Aug 1st or whatever date it is and then we will fight this in court for many years in hopes that we reverse the bill. This is how it will go if you choose to be a law- abiding citizen. Be realistic.
My 2 cents
Your threshold is $600/gun
There are plenty of people who could deal with a threshold of $6000/gun - would you care then? Would they care about you since you are poor compared to them?
EJFudd
NES Member
Okay, I'll bite: What, in your opinion, is the GREATEST of our worries with this hideous new bill?
Agnotology
NES Member
I still think that is punishing people for choices they don't get to make. I'm for doing this to any Chief that supports the decision the president of MCOPA, and to a lesser extent, not welcoming them to make use of training ranges in an official capacity.
I will admit, I don't know how MCOPA works. How they pick the president, whether positions are chosen based on majority rule, or anything else in general. Prior to this thread, I was unaware of MCOPA's existence.
not new guy
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I think this is a very good approach... if they will listen.
They don't care. It is a badge of honor to these leftists to spend your tax money to fight against your rights.
So follow up by saying that those tax dollars spent litigating this would be much better spent on our inner city schools, or getting HBO or new genitals or whatever for inmates.
pastera
NES Member
Yes, I am - what's your point.
They are blaming us for murders we didn't commit - the only thing I am proposing is that they play in their own sandbox and not use mine.
Agnotology
NES Member
..... a fan of collective punishment I see.
not new guy
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The cops are The State. It's not complicated.
Agnotology
NES Member
Who is they? Every person in every department who's chief has signed up for MCOPA? The fresh out of academy rookie who is still on their probationary period? How do you even know who is a part of MCOPA?
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No, not really. But my patience is growing thin on this fascist shit. They pulled a 180 from where they were and there needs to be accountability; the only methods at our disposal are punishing places that continue to do business with them.
Plus I like gangsta rap, and at least I didn’t post a Ganksta NIP picture.
This is absolute horseshit.
No cop is "punished" because a club won't let the police *DEPARTMENT* train on their range.
And any cop can avoid any of that by .. you know... not being a cop. They can quit at any time.
And any cop can join the club on their own. Nobody is saying "anyone who is a cop can't be a member"
Agnotology
NES Member
No. No they aren't. The State Police are "The State". May be the case out east, but not here in Western MA. Yes, there are enclaves - Amherst PD comes to mind. But I don't even know who is part of MCOPA.
The Police Union has been bought out by exempting them from the bill, and I don't see any police officers picketing or protesting against the unions decision to support this nonsense.
CrackPot
NES Member
None of the attorneys I have talked to are aware of any. Hell, none could come up with any case of anyone being successfully prosecuted for failure to record a transaction. Remember, the penalty for this violation is a $500-$1000 fine for the first offense (and 10yrs in the slammer for the second). It is an add on charge that always goes away as part of negotiating a resolution or dropped before trial.
Its a near impossible violation to prove short of a confession. Yes, I assembled it more than 7 days ago. Yes I have kept it in state and assembled the whole time. Yes I have remained in the state myself the entire time. Without that, how do you successfully prosecute?
If the gun is not assembled, what am I registering? If the gun is not in the state, what obligation do I have to register it? If I am not present in the state, how do state laws apply to me? I use the term register as in FA10 registration when we all know it is recording a transaction...
Mesatchornug
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They're not being punished.
They're free to behave as free men, pay for their own memberships, and train on their own. Just like you and me.
Currently, they're gifted access as benefit of their employment, because their boss might harm the club or its members.
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The Chief is responsible for the training and qualifications of the of the officers. The decision that he or she made affects them.
The cops come to your house and kill your dog and take you away in handcuffs and steal all your guns. If they're not "the state", then absolutely, individual cops *SHOULD* be punished.
CrackPot
NES Member
You miss the point. It is not about glocks. It is about all the guns our betters at THE STATE don't think a dealer should transfer to you. Glocks are an obvious example that everyone knows about. The glock 19 is the most popular handgun in America and unavailable to the residents of MA.
Yes. YOU get the point. Thank god someone can think critically.
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They are manifold, but the fact is that we have been living with the Glock issue in this state for at least as long as I have lived here (14 years) and we have managed just fine, because at the end of the day, access to Glocks or no access to Glocks is only an issue for people who think they NEED Glocks.Okay, I'll bite: What, in your opinion, is the GREATEST of our worries with this hideous new bill?
When facing a total AR ban (grandfathered or not), further restrictions on where we can carry, liability for practically anyone involved in firearms activities...whether you can buy the latest Tupperware is an irrelevance.
And bear in mind, that this bill on the Senate floor, is NOT what we are going to see pass. It is going to get smashed in with the house bill, and what we are likely to actually get is most of the worst parts of BOTH.
So I say again, is ready access to Glocks, which we haven't had in at least 12 years, really your chief concern?
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pastera
NES Member
Senator Spilka
State House
24 Beacon St.
Room 332
Boston, MA, 02133
Phone:
(617) 722-1500
Fax:
617-722-1077
Find My Legislator
malegislature.gov
Senator Marc R. Pacheco
malegislature.gov
Hey Marcky boy, EABOD!
Agnotology
NES Member
The way I read the first suggestion implied denying any PD officers being members of your club.
So it’s like blaming the gun owner for the criminals.
Let them feel what it’s like.
I’m starting to run out ![[popcorn]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/043.gif "Popcorn [popcorn]")
Agnotology
NES Member
How bad are all of your local departments? Jesus Christ, I've been saved 3 or 4 times from felonies BECAUSE of my local PD. Maybe I just have a really good department. Who knows.
Agnotology
NES Member
No, this is like blaming the employee for what his VP of Operations did. and in some cases, the VP of Operations of another company.
Randy.. adding to what the other person said in thanking you for always being a good middle man to help put lawyer jargon into laymen’s terms.
I searched a few pages but there’s so many damn comments already I couldn’t find the answer to what I’m looking for.. question: if the amended bill as is goes through, how are semi auto rifles that previously met the requirements for MA compliance affected? It seems as if someone built an AR patterned rifle, the 2 evil features allotment is still in there, but I’m not sure if the immediately prior sentence would ban them due to being copies of the colt ar15. Or are they not copies because they don’t have the collapsible stock and threaded barrel?
If they’re considered copies despite being previously ma compliant, does that mean every single semi auto rifle post 94 has to be sold/transferred out of state or destroyed regardless of whether or not it meets ma compliance?
My head hurts.
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