MA Gun Grab 2024: H.4885 - Passed legislature, headed to the governor

[Ben Cartwright SASS]

I guess my guns aren't dangerous or love me because I opened my safe and begged them to shoot me and they wouldn't...

 

[PappyM3]

Ugh ... thank you.

I wonder if areas under their control include inside town limit.

For example, if a town could restrict owning a certain type of gun, or transporting that gun through the town, or forcing home owners to declare certain guns to the town.

If under their control they mean the Town Hall, and some other town building, that wouldn't be completely horrible (still really bad).

There will 100% be towns that try to ban carry in as many places as possible. Maybe not ban the entire town, but close to it. They will push the limits of “sensitive places”. They won’t care about Bruen. But, since it will be multiple towns, it will divide lawsuit efforts.

 

[Broc Tuah]

There will 100% be towns that try to ban carry in as many places as possible. Maybe not ban the entire town, but close to it. They will push the limits of “sensitive places”. They won’t care about Bruen. But, since it will be multiple towns, it will divide lawsuit efforts.

And probably ban owning certains if you live in town. Like no handguns. Or no semi automatic rifles of any kind.

 

[sig shooter]

Section 27. Last paragraph


Nothing in this subsection shall limit the authority of any state, municipality, county or judicial body from adopting policies restricting the possession of firearms, rifles, shotguns or other dangerous weapons in areas under their control.

I read this as they can restrict or not restrict guns on town owned properties. Your property is not owned by the town.

 

[CrackPot]

Ugh ... thank you.

I wonder if areas under their control include inside town limit.

For example, if a town could restrict owning a certain type of gun, or transporting that gun through the town, or forcing home owners to declare certain guns to the town.

If under their control they mean the Town Hall, and some other town building, that wouldn't be completely horrible (still really bad).

The wording is sufficiently broad as to allow for interpretation as desired by the marsupial courts of MA. In other words, your worst nightmare is accurate

 

[CrackPot]

I read this as they can restrict or not restrict guns on town owned properties. Your property is not owned by the town.

Comes down to what "control" means. You cannot built a 9 story tower of babel in your back yard so by that logic they control your property and its use. The language is overly broad and open to unfavorable interpretation.

 

[Love Machine]

The wording is sufficiently broad as to allow for interpretation as desired by the marsupial courts of MA. In other words, your worst nightmare is accurate

You spelled a**h*** courts wrong.

 

[VTski4x4]

I believe it was the first version. But might have been removed now.

However, the new part about allowing towns and cities to do whatever they want is just as bad if not worse.

This entire thing is a giant F*CK YOU to law abiding people and businesses.

I wonder where all the "compromise" idiots went.

Yeah where did that flaming f***head go?

 

[Toast]

Section 27. Last paragraph


Nothing in this subsection shall limit the authority of any state, municipality, county or judicial body from adopting policies restricting the possession of firearms, rifles, shotguns or other dangerous weapons in areas under their control.

I think that will come down to how "under their control" ends up being interpreted. My guess would be that they won't be considered to be "in control" of the entire town, but only on town-owned property. If not, some state-level court would be able to impose its own rules across the entire state.

 

[peterj0938]

I have made one pass through the new bill


Two things I will highlight with details below:

1. It makes all existing government administrative buildings and courts/judicial builds off limits to guns
2. It removes state preemption that stops local government (municipal, county) from passing their own restrictions on guns

The removal of preemption is in some ways the worst thing possible as you no longer know what the laws are as you pass town to town.

From a practical perspective all ARs are banned.

Frames and receivers are no longer different than the completed gun they represent. This effectively makes the roster for handguns fully enforceable.



Some details:



The bill modifies existing MGL as opposed to completely rewriting Chapter 140



Sec 121

New definition of assault weapon. Long form and not a reference to old federal law. Essentially codifies Healey type language resulting in a complete ban of ARs. Compliance work is no longer a “thing” as how it is originally manufactured or assembled is its permanent condition. That bans everything else.

Firearm now includes the receiver or frame of such firearm

Defines FFL. Defines Frame.

Defines machine gun to include parts designed to convert a gun into a machine gun. So broader than federal language and would include for example the full auto trigger pack of a MP5 or the trigger parts of a M16.

Defines manufacture to be what you think but not include reassembly or essentially gunsmithing.

Expands ERPO. Bend over. LOTS of language changes in later sections too.

Essentially bans force reset and binary triggers with new “Rapid-fire trigger activator”

Defines Receiver

Rifle now includes the receiver of such rifle

Shotgun now includes the receiver of such shotgun

Defines “unfinished frame or receiver”. Think 80%


New sec 121B guns must have serial numbers. FFL 07s exempt from this. Pre 1968 guns exempt. Some other exemptions. This is the GHOST GUNS BAD section


New sec 121C makes 3d printing or milling of firearms by anyone not a 07 FFL a crime. Making guns in MA would now be illegal except by FFLs

Selling machine to make guns illegal unless to a FFL

Any person with a FID or LTC who manufactures or assembles a firearm must notify state within 10 days. So closes the existing “purchase or obtain” loophole addressing manufacture or assemble.

You can never sell a gun you make yourself


New sec 121D bans “digital firearm manufacturing code”. This already lost in federal court so an interesting one to add. No code for making guns unless you are a FFL


Sec 123

Inspections are still done by local police unless they cannot and they then notify state police who will conduct inspection


New Sec 128D this is pure evil. This is language to get around federal law protecting gun manufacturers and resellers from lawsuits for products used as designed. It is broad and lacks clarity such that everyone can be sued if they said the word “gun”


Sec 129D and 131 broaden background requirements for getting a FID or LTC to include a lot more mental checks, health privacy invasion etc.


Sec 131N more broadly bans covert weapons


Chap 269 sec 10 now bans guns from all state, county or municipal administrative buildings and all courts or court administrative buildings. So you cannot carry into town hall anymore, for example.


Removes state preemption for governments below the state level to further ban guns from any area under their control. So think buildings, parks, etc. THIS IS TOTAL EVIL ALSO. We now have laws different town to town


Chap 269 10H defines carrying while under the influence to be the same .08 as DUI

So what does that mean for Machine guns? Are they banning them or are they just changing the definition of them?

 

[wildwest]

Comes down to what "control" means. You cannot built a 9 story tower of babel in your back yard so by that logic they control your property and its use. The language is overly broad and open to unfavorable interpretation.

Totally Agree--
Leaves way too much open for interpretation. One could argue, the city of Springfield has control over their roadways, or town green- therefore can make it illegal to conceal a firearm while driving or occupying these areas. How would a resident of not only Springfield, but a neighboring town be aware of this ordinance? What is the expectation- to put up no gun allowed signs where municipalities make up regulation and spelling all them out verbatim? I see my 9mm sidearm not allowed on the list- Am I then to turn around, disarm and store my firearm in my vehicle parked on the street that the city controls? I’m guessing I’ll have to go home and hope I don’t take any wrong turns anywhere where I can commit a felony.

 

[Broc Tuah]

The wording is sufficiently broad as to allow for interpretation as desired by the marsupial courts of MA. In other words, your worst nightmare is accurate

At this point, I would buy 1 bedroom in a house in Nashua, NH just to get the f*ck out of here.

 

[chris_1001]

At this point, I would buy 1 bedroom in a house in Nashua, NH just to get the f*ck out of here.

We need an NES apartment building in NH.

 

[Woodsloafer]

I have not read through the entire bill or seen it mentioned in this thread (unless I missed it) - does the senate version require registration of all guns that we own?

 

[Jsfitzgerald85]

If this is just An amendment to the House bill then the August 2024 date should still carry forth for “assault weapon” grandfathering.

It’s specifically mentioned in Section 128b (a) of the House Bill and I don’t see anything in the senate bill which strikes or modifies that section.

If that section isn’t changed, that grandfather date carries forth does it not?

 

[556USER]

Section 27. Last paragraph


Nothing in this subsection shall limit the authority of any state, municipality, county or judicial body from adopting policies restricting the possession of firearms, rifles, shotguns or other dangerous weapons in areas under their control.

Maybe I can't understand English but it seems to read that The Mass senate either thinks that there are "states" within Mass or that Mass law applies to other states. Can any lawyers help me understand that language?

 

[Mesatchornug]

Maybe I can't understand English but it seems to read that The Mass senate either thinks that there are "states" within Mass or that Mass law applies to other states. Can any lawyers help me understand that language?

lazy copypasta

 

[556USER]

lazy copypasta

The doc on the GOAL website from Senate has that language. https://www.goal.org/resources/S2572.pdf

 

[Mesatchornug]

The doc on the GOAL website from Senate has that language. https://www.goal.org/resources/S2572.pdf

agreed. I could've been clearer - I'm assuming whoever drafted the bill was copy-pasting something from a federal example

 

[AFVet]

We need an NES apartment building in NH.

I was picturing more like an NES trailer park... Not trying to be totally funny here..

 

[MAJoe]

If this is just An amendment to the House bill then the August 2024 date should still carry forth for “assault weapon” grandfathering.

It’s specifically mentioned in Section 128b (a) of the House Bill and I don’t see anything in the senate bill which strikes or modifies that section.

If that section isn’t changed, that grandfather date carries forth does it not?

This is important. It reads like a lot of the dangerous provisions of the house bill are still intact, and this just further modifies them.

If it’s not in the senate version, it’s still there.

 

[Picton]

I'm pretty sure that's not how it works. If I break a law in state A such that a warrant is issued on me, if an officer in state B runs my info to see if I have any open warrants and the dispatcher in state B checks the appropriate database, it comes up. The two states don't need to agree on what's legal or illegal. Whether the officer in state A takes action on it is a separate matter.

Okay, but then what?

Extradition? I think not.

 

[CrackPot]

I have not read through the entire bill or seen it mentioned in this thread (unless I missed it) - does the senate version require registration of all guns that we own?

No grandfathering

 

[CrackPot]

If this is just An amendment to the House bill then the August 2024 date should still carry forth for “assault weapon” grandfathering.

It’s specifically mentioned in Section 128b (a) of the House Bill and I don’t see anything in the senate bill which strikes or modifies that section.

If that section isn’t changed, that grandfather date carries forth does it not?

No. It is a totally different set of text that modifies existing state law. Calling it an amendment to the house bill is just a legislative hack and you can ignore it. Think of this as a stand alone bill that does what it does.

No grandfathering

 

[MAJoe]

No. It is a totally different set of text that modifies existing state law. Calling it an amendment to the house bill is just a legislative hack and you can ignore it. Think of this as a stand alone bill that does what it does.

No grandfathering

Weird. I wonder why they phrased it “Recommended new text for H4139”. Being a whole new bill I hope means it takes more time vs they loved the house version and just had some tweaks.

 

[mothybee]

Okay, but then what?

Extradition? I think not.

I can see it on the news, cuffed, trying to hide his face with his shoulder wearing a flak jacket, 4 Nebraska SP surrounding him. OMG! Is he from January 6th, No January 26th. The reporters gasp.

 

[1903Collector]

If this passes as is and doesn't make it to SCOTUS nothing ever will.

 

[Lxpony]

No grandfathering

Although I agree its not there in what came out last night, the eternal optimist in me says there is no way they are going to go back and mandate a buy back or surrendering.


If no grandfathering, where is that language about surrendering or getting out of state?

 

[CMEBoston]

It’s cute that you think voting matters anymore.

Easy to say, when I assume you don’t vote

Although I agree its not there in what came out last night, the eternal optimist in me says there is no way they are going to go back and mandate a buy back or surrendering.


If no grandfathering, where is that language about surrendering or getting out of state?

Man, you really don’t know how gun laws work do you?

It’s pretty simple they pass the law and then poof all of the evil Guns disappear (sarcasm in case you didn’t notice)

 

[Nightshift]

It’s pretty simple they pass the law and then poof all of the evil Guns disappear (sarcasm in case you didn’t notice)

That’s exactly what the Libtards would have you believe!

I bet there are some that might actually believe it themselves.