MA Gun Grab 2024: H.4885 - Passed legislature, headed to the governor

[CrackPot]

A different summary than the one I wrote last night. Some clarifications. Some conclusions. Some opinions. Hopefully a useful way to look at this sh*tshow.

First and foremost, it is a modification of existing MGL leaving by default, everything we know and love in place without change. The version passed in the house is NOT relevant.

1. Assault Weapons. They have removed the federal reference and written the law out long hand. They have made some not nice modifications including codifying a number of Healeyisms. ALL AR-15s are assault weapons. Once an assault weapon, always an assault weapon, so no compliance work to fix something. The Copy/Duplicate language exists in a very unpleasant form. No new grandfathering so all the post 1994 weapons you have that are compliant with the AWB are now illegal if they are not compliant with the new AWB.
2. Rifle, shotgun and firearm definitions now include the frame or receiver of a rifle or shotgun. So MA is now regulating frames and receivers. Since all ARs are assault weapons, all AR receivers are assault weapons. Dealer's cannot transfer/sell off roster firearms and since the frame/receiver is a firearm, no more frame transfers.
3. No Ghost Guns. ie no guns without serial numbers if the gun was manufactured after 1968. No making guns from unfinished unserialized stuff (80% lowers). All guns must get serialized and must be serialized before you assemble them. You can assemble, but not manufacture. Ghost guns bad.
4. No 3D printers, CNC machines or code to use on said devices unless you are a 07 FFL. They write it less broadly than that, but they use language that could effectively ban them completely for everyone if they choose.
5. Liability to everyone in the gun industry if they think you are marketing to anyone under 18 or reasonably should know someone under 18 will use or used or could use or... Avoiding federal protection and opening you up to civil liability that is unbounded. Essentially means a gunstore is a bad career choice. The way it is written, I as a dealer could sell someone a nice sig rifle. Unbeknownst to me, Sig is marketing them in such a way as to be considered marketing to under 18s. I now can get sued because I sold it. Try and manage your risk. I dare you.
6. Makes all municipal administrative and court/judicial administrative buildings sensitive places. Thall shall not confront your oppressors while armed.
7. Removes state preemption for gun laws essentially allowing any municipal or county government to pass whatever regulation they want restricting guns. Best of luck driving down the road and knowing what the laws are of any town you pass through.
8. Greatly expands ERPO (red flag). Not worth listing how, just know that anyone you pass on the street can ERPO you.
9. Expands background checks for FID/LTC particularly in the area of mental health. One of the worst is that a 3 day involuntary hold is now a statutory disqualifier. Since this is a zero due process hold, one doctor can take away your gun rights on a whim at anytime. The hold standard was involuntary commitment which required a judge.

 

[sig shooter]

A different summary than the one I wrote last night. Some clarifications. Some conclusions. Some opinions. Hopefully a useful way to look at this sh*tshow.

First and foremost, it is a modification of existing MGL leaving by default, everything we know and love in place without change. The version passed in the house is NOT relevant.

1. Assault Weapons. They have removed the federal reference and written the law out long hand. They have made some not nice modifications including codifying a number of Healeyisms. ALL AR-15s are assault weapons. Once an assault weapon, always an assault weapon, so no compliance work to fix something. The Copy/Duplicate language exists in a very unpleasant form. No new grandfathering so all the post 1994 weapons you have that are compliant with the AWB are now illegal if they are not compliant with the new AWB.
2. Rifle, shotgun and firearm definitions now include the frame or receiver of a rifle or shotgun. So MA is now regulating frames and receivers. Since all ARs are assault weapons, all AR receivers are assault weapons. Dealer's cannot transfer/sell off roster firearms and since the frame/receiver is a firearm, no more frame transfers.
3. No Ghost Guns. ie no guns without serial numbers if the gun was manufactured after 1968. No making guns from unfinished unserialized stuff (80% lowers). All guns must get serialized and must be serialized before you assemble them. You can assemble, but not manufacture. Ghost guns bad.
4. No 3D printers, CNC machines or code to use on said devices unless you are a 07 FFL. They write it less broadly than that, but they use language that could effectively ban them completely for everyone if they choose.
5. Liability to everyone in the gun industry if they think you are marketing to anyone under 18 or reasonably should know someone under 18 will use or used or could use or... Avoiding federal protection and opening you up to civil liability that is unbounded. Essentially means a gunstore is a bad career choice. The way it is written, I as a dealer could sell someone a nice sig rifle. Unbeknownst to me, Sig is marketing them in such a way as to be considered marketing to under 18s. I now can get sued because I sold it. Try and manage your risk. I dare you.
6. Makes all municipal administrative and court/judicial administrative buildings sensitive places. Thall shall not confront your oppressors while armed.
7. Removes state preemption for gun laws essentially allowing any municipal or county government to pass whatever regulation they want restricting guns. Best of luck driving down the road and knowing what the laws are of any town you pass through.
8. Greatly expands ERPO (red flag). Not worth listing how, just know that anyone you pass on the street can ERPO you.
9. Expands background checks for FID/LTC particularly in the area of mental health. One of the worst is that a 3 day involuntary hold is now a statutory disqualifier. Since this is a zero due process hold, one doctor can take away your gun rights on a whim at anytime. The hold standard was involuntary commitment which required a judge.

I interpreted it as when the cops/state run their background check, record of a section 12 is now included in addition to any involuntary commitments to a mental institution. Did you see anything else?

 

[Joeldiaz]

When some version of this dumpster fire passes, if it still has support of MCOPA,

It already has their support: Mass. Senate Dems unveil long-awaited gun reform bill; plan Feb. 1 vote

“The Massachusetts Chiefs of Police Association, which represents city, town and university police chiefsacross the Commonwealth, supports the concise firearms reform bill put forth by the Senate,” said ChiefEric P. Gillis, President of Massachusetts Chiefs of Police Association.

 

[Lxpony]

A different summary than the one I wrote last night. Some clarifications. Some conclusions. Some opinions. Hopefully a useful way to look at this sh*tshow.

First and foremost, it is a modification of existing MGL leaving by default, everything we know and love in place without change. The version passed in the house is NOT relevant.

1. Assault Weapons. They have removed the federal reference and written the law out long hand. They have made some not nice modifications including codifying a number of Healeyisms. ALL AR-15s are assault weapons. Once an assault weapon, always an assault weapon, so no compliance work to fix something. The Copy/Duplicate language exists in a very unpleasant form. No new grandfathering so all the post 1994 weapons you have that are compliant with the AWB are now illegal if they are not compliant with the new AWB.
2. Rifle, shotgun and firearm definitions now include the frame or receiver of a rifle or shotgun. So MA is now regulating frames and receivers. Since all ARs are assault weapons, all AR receivers are assault weapons. Dealer's cannot transfer/sell off roster firearms and since the frame/receiver is a firearm, no more frame transfers.
3. No Ghost Guns. ie no guns without serial numbers if the gun was manufactured after 1968. No making guns from unfinished unserialized stuff (80% lowers). All guns must get serialized and must be serialized before you assemble them. You can assemble, but not manufacture. Ghost guns bad.
4. No 3D printers, CNC machines or code to use on said devices unless you are a 07 FFL. They write it less broadly than that, but they use language that could effectively ban them completely for everyone if they choose.
5. Liability to everyone in the gun industry if they think you are marketing to anyone under 18 or reasonably should know someone under 18 will use or used or could use or... Avoiding federal protection and opening you up to civil liability that is unbounded. Essentially means a gunstore is a bad career choice. The way it is written, I as a dealer could sell someone a nice sig rifle. Unbeknownst to me, Sig is marketing them in such a way as to be considered marketing to under 18s. I now can get sued because I sold it. Try and manage your risk. I dare you.
6. Makes all municipal administrative and court/judicial administrative buildings sensitive places. Thall shall not confront your oppressors while armed.
7. Removes state preemption for gun laws essentially allowing any municipal or county government to pass whatever regulation they want restricting guns. Best of luck driving down the road and knowing what the laws are of any town you pass through.
8. Greatly expands ERPO (red flag). Not worth listing how, just know that anyone you pass on the street can ERPO you.
9. Expands background checks for FID/LTC particularly in the area of mental health. One of the worst is that a 3 day involuntary hold is now a statutory disqualifier. Since this is a zero due process hold, one doctor can take away your gun rights on a whim at anytime. The hold standard was involuntary commitment which required a judge.

Not that I would want to do this.. but a work around to #1 would be to simply chop the barrel on your AR15 that had a muzzle brake perm attached so its a stub barrel with no affixed muzzle attachment of any type. Then, the only AW feature it would have would be a pistol grip and ergo not an AW.

You have to make sure the barrel is still at least 16" after this medication otherwise its a SBR

 

[nm1]

A different summary than the one I wrote last night. Some clarifications. Some conclusions. Some opinions. Hopefully a useful way to look at this sh*tshow.

First and foremost, it is a modification of existing MGL leaving by default, everything we know and love in place without change. The version passed in the house is NOT relevant.

1. Assault Weapons. They have removed the federal reference and written the law out long hand. They have made some not nice modifications including codifying a number of Healeyisms. ALL AR-15s are assault weapons. Once an assault weapon, always an assault weapon, so no compliance work to fix something. The Copy/Duplicate language exists in a very unpleasant form. No new grandfathering so all the post 1994 weapons you have that are compliant with the AWB are now illegal if they are not compliant with the new AWB.
2. Rifle, shotgun and firearm definitions now include the frame or receiver of a rifle or shotgun. So MA is now regulating frames and receivers. Since all ARs are assault weapons, all AR receivers are assault weapons. Dealer's cannot transfer/sell off roster firearms and since the frame/receiver is a firearm, no more frame transfers.
3. No Ghost Guns. ie no guns without serial numbers if the gun was manufactured after 1968. No making guns from unfinished unserialized stuff (80% lowers). All guns must get serialized and must be serialized before you assemble them. You can assemble, but not manufacture. Ghost guns bad.
4. No 3D printers, CNC machines or code to use on said devices unless you are a 07 FFL. They write it less broadly than that, but they use language that could effectively ban them completely for everyone if they choose.
5. Liability to everyone in the gun industry if they think you are marketing to anyone under 18 or reasonably should know someone under 18 will use or used or could use or... Avoiding federal protection and opening you up to civil liability that is unbounded. Essentially means a gunstore is a bad career choice. The way it is written, I as a dealer could sell someone a nice sig rifle. Unbeknownst to me, Sig is marketing them in such a way as to be considered marketing to under 18s. I now can get sued because I sold it. Try and manage your risk. I dare you.
6. Makes all municipal administrative and court/judicial administrative buildings sensitive places. Thall shall not confront your oppressors while armed.
7. Removes state preemption for gun laws essentially allowing any municipal or county government to pass whatever regulation they want restricting guns. Best of luck driving down the road and knowing what the laws are of any town you pass through.
8. Greatly expands ERPO (red flag). Not worth listing how, just know that anyone you pass on the street can ERPO you.
9. Expands background checks for FID/LTC particularly in the area of mental health. One of the worst is that a 3 day involuntary hold is now a statutory disqualifier. Since this is a zero due process hold, one doctor can take away your gun rights on a whim at anytime. The hold standard was involuntary commitment which required a judge.

I have a follow-up question:
Would the way SBRs are handled change as well?

With the feb ban incorporated the rifle/pistol/shotgun definitions used were Fed as it related to the fed language.

Under MA law an SBR was a ‘firearm’/not a rife - the newly copied over language for AW still uses the Fed names for things and does not reference an SBR/MA names for things.

For example would an SBR based on a non-listed receiver now fall under the pistol feature test?

 

[CrackPot]

Not that I would want to do this.. but a work around to #1 would be to simply chop the barrel on your AR15 that had a muzzle brake perm attached so its a stub barrel with no affixed muzzle attachment of any type. Then, the only AW feature it would have would be a pistol grip and ergo not an AW.

You have to make sure the barrel is still at least 16" after this medication otherwise its a SBR

View attachment 843273

once an assault weapon, always an assault weapon. So you cannot modify it as originally manufactured to make it not an assault weapon.

That is an AR. ALL ARs are assault weapons.

But thank you for playing our game!

 

[Spartan65]

How are they going to handle post 1994 SBR’s that were in state legally. The feds know where they are. Taxes were paid in accordance with law.

Seems like grounds for a good court challenge.

 

[CrackPot]

I have a follow-up question:
Would the way SBRs are handled change as well?

With the feb ban incorporated the rifle/pistol/shotgun definitions used were Fed as it related to the fed language.

Under MA law an SBR was a ‘firearm’/not a rife - the newly copied over language for AW still uses the Fed names for things and does not reference an SBR/MA names for things.

For example would an SBR based on a non-listed receiver now fall under the pistol feature test?

With the current draft of the language, we will not know the answer to this until it goes to a court of appropriate jurisdiction to decide. No language/law, new case law required. As written, who the fck knows.

 

[CrackPot]

How are they going to handle post 1994 SBR’s that were in state legally. The feds know where they are. Taxes were paid in accordance with law.

Seems like grounds for a good court challenge.

you have 4th, 5th and 14th amendment issues with making illegal what is currently legal w/o compensation or grandfathering. Expect resolution of such legal issues to take 6-8 years. In the mean time, it sucks to be you...

Yes, that is tongue in cheek, but it is not the only unambiguously unconstitutional pieces of this legislation. The point for the gun grabbers is a) do something and b) it if sticks only for a little while, we can always do it again.

 

[alx]

They will have to grandfather in (I do not believe they will compensate)... Otherwise tons of folks will be all of a sudden criminals just because they own something that was legal and now is illegal... this is against the constitution and is spelled out there clearly

 

[paul73]

The point for the gun grabbers is a) do something and b) it if sticks only for a little while, we can always do it again.

the reality is - based on how judges are selected any unconstitutional shit gets approved by those judges to remain enforced, so the executive power can continue the cycle pretty much indefinitely while effectively enforcing unconstitutional measures with a silent approval of law enforcement and legal side as well.

exactly what ny state does right now, and rest of states follow same model.

 

[Picton]

you have 4th, 5th and 14th amendment issues with making illegal what is currently legal w/o compensation or grandfathering. Expect resolution of such legal issues to take 6-8 years. In the mean time, it sucks to be you...

They will have to grandfather in (I do not believe they will compensate)... Otherwise tons of folks will be all of a sudden criminals just because they own something that was legal and now is illegal...

Mariano was concerned about this during the first, failed version of the House bill. If he's still concerned about it, it seems unlikely he'll let it stand in the Senate bill during whatever reconciliation takes place.

Many here are reacting to this as though it is a done deal. It is very emphatically NOT a done deal.

 

[Nightshift]

Don't forget, I'm sure if we all hold hands and wish really really hard, we can compromise and only have to accept 98% of it!

 

[Broc Tuah]

Remember, even if they grandfather, they can still come after those rifles later. Didn't CT do that or try that?

 

[Spartan65]

Remember, even if they grandfather, they can still come after those rifles later. Didn't CT do that or try that?

Illinois is on that same path.

 

[Ron Jablonski]

Remember, even if they grandfather, they can still come after those rifles later. Didn't CT do that or try that?

I would assume they only went after guns people were dumb enough to register. Illinois is going through this right now, just waiting to see if they proceed with confiscation now that registration has ended.

 

[MainelyFree]

They will have to grandfather in (I do not believe they will compensate)... Otherwise tons of folks will be all of a sudden criminals just because they own something that was legal and now is illegal...

Maura’s been stating that since 7/20/16.

 

[six string]

Illinois is on that same path.

Did Illinois have a similar MIRCS system in place prior to? I keep seeing Illinois' compliance rate of registration used as comparison but I'd think the state DB in Mass makes a big difference. ..to some anyway.

 

[MAJoe]

Remember, even if they grandfather, they can still come after those rifles later. Didn't CT do that or try that?

No, they got rid of the preban exemption but nothing people lawfully owned was retroactively made illegal.

 

[1MassFFL]

Okay.

Nobody who posts firearms data for public consumption on the internet is going to give a hoot in hell about that kind of crap. Especially when they know the local LEOs will laugh about it, too.

Post general firearm info online for people to use as they see fit protected by the 1st Amendment? Problematic.

State of MA posts personal info of law abiding citizens online, including the details of firearms their citizens own and where they got them? oh, thats ok.

 

[DJBrad]

Illinois is on that same path.

Cook County ftw


We’re turning into Cuck County here.

 

[StevieP]

The longer I live in NC, the more I know I'll never, ever, move back to MA.

 

[JDL]

Does this allow them to try and ram it through before the end of the legislative session?

They will have to grandfather in (I do not believe they will compensate)... Otherwise tons of folks will be all of a sudden criminals just because they own something that was legal and now is illegal...

Think about proabision alcohol was leagle and then poof it was not, at one time possision of cocane and opiates was perfectly leagle and then poof ileaglle. It has been done before. This is not new.

 

[Rocky Mosasaurus]

Think about proabision alcohol was leagle and then poof it was not, at one time possision of cocane and opiates was perfectly leagle and then poof ileaglle. It has been done before. This is not new.

Brotherman, this comment is intended in the best possible way, but your spelling needs to be taken up two or even three notches. We're talking about laws and politics here, dial it in and get it together.

 

[JDL]

Brotherman, this comment is intended in the best possible way, but your spelling needs to be taken up two or even three notches. We're talking about laws and politics here, dial it in and get it together.

It's the F'n auto correct I really should proof read before I post.
Thanks anyway

 

[Rocky Mosasaurus]

It's the F'n auto correct I really should proof read before I post.
Thanks anyway

Totally thought you'd tell me to get F'd! All good, no worries! Everyone's a little on edge, including me and I got snippy. I'm not going to initiate the purse swinging, even though I basically already did LOL

 

[556USER]

I have had several young Leftists laugh at me and say, we are just waiting until your generation dies off, then we run the show.

Do any of those "children" that said that to you own guns? If they do they are the best evidence that libtards should not be allowed to own guns. If they don't own any they won't be running any shows, their MASTERS will be running the show. We've reached the point where 2A people advocating that liberals own guns is akin to arming the enemy. Do you want those peolple to be armed when they are running things? Prove me wrong. I have seen the arguments here before. You could ask the people buried in numerous mass graves the world over but they won't be answering since they're dead. Killed by their fellow citizens when they failed to comply.

 

[milktree]

Greatly expands ERPO (red flag). Not worth listing how, just know that anyone you pass on the street can ERPO you.

I don't think it does. It looks to me like it expanded it to health care people (long list) who have treated you within six months. Not just any doctor, but one that's treated you.

“Petitioner”:
family or household member,
licensing authority of the municipality wherein the respondent resides

health care provider who has treated you within six months:

• licensed physician,
• licensed physician assistant,
• registered nurse,
• licensed practical nurse,
• certified nurse practitioner,
• certified clinical nurse specialist,
• certified psychiatric clinical nurse specialist,
• licensed psychiatrist,
• licensed psychologist,
• licensed mental health counselor,
• licensed marriage and family therapist,
• licensed alcohol and drug counselor,
• licensed independent clinical social worker
• licensed certified social worker.

The red stuff is new

 

[APFSDS]

It must be fate that I got the listing agreement to sign from my realtor the day this dropped. I signed this morning. Listing at the beginning of March and out of here at the latest by mid-May. Not soon enough.

 

[Picton]

Think about proabision alcohol was leagle and then poof it was not, at one time possision of cocane and opiates was perfectly leagle and then poof ileaglle. It has been done before. This is not new.

Apples and oranges: Prohibition was enforced because it was in the Constitution, explicitly. By contrast, firearms are protected because they're in the Constitution, explicitly.

The two situations are nothing alike.