Making an SBR

Mark from ? said:
Im in a free state and not sure why anyone would go thru the hassle SBR over just doing a pistol with no paperwork or fees.
Click to expand...
One word: PS90.

PS90-Std-Blk_009.jpg
 
But the Mass assault weapon ban pretty much eliminates owning one anyway unless you pay unicorn dropping prices for pre-ban, right?
 
LakeTrout said:
Because they may prefer a stock to a brace, or they may want a vertical foregrip. Those are the first two that come to mind. And they can be pretty important to some.
Click to expand...
I get it......if that's what you need.

I will likely have to pay the fee for the can.. paying fees on.both SBR and Can would really suck, but its looking more if I ever get it finished its what I might do.
 
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Kevin_NH said:
Assuming an AR (or OPs Sig MCX), why engrave the upper?

Best of both worlds -- one trust per item.

Buy a tried-and-true NFA trust, call the first copy "Salt I" for your SBR, then make a fresh copy and call it "Salt II" for your can, etc. Other than the notary, there is no cost to setting up additional trusts (in my state, YMMV).
Click to expand...
MP5 the serialized part is the upper.
 
Mark from ? said:
I get it......if that's what you need.

I will likely have to pay the fee for the can.. paying fees on.both SBR and Can would really suck.
Click to expand...
It does suck.

I wish there was more of a market for suppressor integrated barrels that take the barrel to 16”. I remember there were one or two pre-built uppers that had the suppressor permanently attached to the barrel so you’d only need the suppressor stamp and not the SBR. But it was expensive and you lost the ability to customize.
 
LakeTrout said:
It does suck.

I wish there was more of a market for suppressor integrated barrels that take the barrel to 16”. I remember there were one or two pre-built uppers that had the suppressor permanently attached to the barrel so you’d only need the suppressor stamp and not the SBR. But it was expensive and you lost the ability to customize.
Click to expand...
Sig had a great idea in that realm, but ATF crushed their dreams (and their prototype)
Mark from ? said:
PS90-Std-Blk_009.jpg

Yuck! No thank you!
Click to expand...
Here's what it looks like after the tax stamp
jYRl8rC.jpeg

If I had it to do again, I would weld up an SB-X type barrel cage seeing as the can (Sparrow) basically lives there now. Sadly, while TacSol sold a few SB-X conversion AR uppers, they never expanded to centerfire calibers.
 
Kevin_NH said:
Sig had a great idea in that realm, but ATF crushed their dreams (and their prototype)

Here's what it looks like after the tax stamp
jYRl8rC.jpeg

If I had it to do again, I would weld up an SB-X type barrel cage seeing as the can (Sparrow) basically lives there now. Sadly, while TacSol sold a few SB-X conversion AR uppers, they never expanded to centerfire calibers.
Click to expand...
It looks like it would be unwieldy due to the weight in the rear and not a place to hold with the support hand that’s further toward the front. Is that accurate, or does it actually handle better than it looks like it would?
 
richgetsy said:
I used a trust. Very easy to fill out the paper work.
You'll need digital finger prints, you can find a UPS store and get them done.
Passport photo
Atf website sign in
Fill out form 1 & responsible person form, $200
Submit
I had my approval in 5 days.
Get it engraved at the Mill
Click to expand...

Wait. What? Digital fingy-prints at UPS Store????

EDIT - wait. The Middleburrah UPS store does digital fingerprints????? I'm SO there. Woot!
 
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This thread is a dumpster fire of bad information. I love NES!!!


There is what you MUST do and then there is how you go about it. Let's focus on what you must do

1) File a form 1 with the ATF paying a $200 tax stamp
2) mark the object in compliance with current ATF regulations for marking

You have to make some decisions about some of these

1) do you file as an individual or a trust. A trust used to be the right choice because you needed to ask permission of your CLEO but a trust did not. But that rule went away. Some people want a trust for inheritance (I can explain why this is bad and unnecessary separately). The one good reason I can think of for a trust is that multiple people will have individual access to items in the trust. I can give lots of bad reasons for trusts. 99% of my customers file as individuals

2) do you file electronically or paper. This is easy. You file electronically as the return time is ~30 days (we see 12hrs-5 days usually) for electronic and 4 months+ for paper. Current Processing Times | Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives Prints should be electronic too

3) Marking. It used to be the case that you could mark (maker, location minimum assuming all other required marks are present) almost anywhere. This drastically changed a couple years ago. In almost all cases you need to mark the gun in the same place the existing model/serial/etc are. Marking an AR anyplace but the lower is crazy talk since you want to be able to put any upper you want on the SBR lower.


Finally there is the how. How do you get these steps done.

1) @TheMillGunShop is a lawyer owned FFL and offers a service AS THE LAW OFFICE to do your Form 1 with/for you. The ATF does not permit a FFL to help with a Form 1 and it does not permit anyone but the person filing to do the Form 1. BUT since we have a FFL that is also lawyer owned, they can offer the service from the law office side. They will complete the form 1 with you, pictures, engraving, electronic fingerprints, etc. $200 tax stamp. $250 service fee including prints, engraving, etc.

2) @Dean Safety offers fingerprinting $40. You can also get them at some UPS stores and some USPS locations for higher prices. Doing paper print cards is a bad choice. Digital once and you have them forever.

3) @EddieCoyle offers NFA engraving $85 if my memory is correct. There are other places but he does top notch work


You can get a full service or ala cart services and roll your own forms. Some people are good at filling out government forms. Some are not... There are lots of best practices that you will not learn doing it yourself.

1) you have to notify CLEO of your form. Who do you notify? Who is best and who is worst?
2) you have to mark the maker. There is only one correct marking by default unless you do something specific when filing the form to change this. What and how?
3) should you send pictures of the object? Sometimes yes, sometimes no. What pictures and why yes and no?
4) what other information should be included in the comments section of the form to avoid denials (and yes, there are things you must put in there given you are in MA)

There are reasons using a service is a good choice unless you have an experienced friend who also knows all the regulations.
 
CrackPot said:
This thread is a dumpster fire of bad information. I love NES!!!


There is what you MUST do and then there is how you go about it. Let's focus on what you must do

1) File a form 1 with the ATF paying a $200 tax stamp
2) mark the object in compliance with current ATF regulations for marking

You have to make some decisions about some of these

1) do you file as an individual or a trust. A trust used to be the right choice because you needed to ask permission of your CLEO but a trust did not. But that rule went away. Some people want a trust for inheritance (I can explain why this is bad and unnecessary separately). The one good reason I can think of for a trust is that multiple people will have individual access to items in the trust. I can give lots of bad reasons for trusts. 99% of my customers file as individuals

2) do you file electronically or paper. This is easy. You file electronically as the return time is ~30 days (we see 12hrs-5 days usually) for electronic and 4 months+ for paper. Current Processing Times | Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives Prints should be electronic too

3) Marking. It used to be the case that you could mark (maker, location minimum assuming all other required marks are present) almost anywhere. This drastically changed a couple years ago. In almost all cases you need to mark the gun in the same place the existing model/serial/etc are. Marking an AR anyplace but the lower is crazy talk since you want to be able to put any upper you want on the SBR lower.


Finally there is the how. How do you get these steps done.

1) @TheMillGunShop is a lawyer owned FFL and offers a service AS THE LAW OFFICE to do your Form 1 with/for you. The ATF does not permit a FFL to help with a Form 1 and it does not permit anyone but the person filing to do the Form 1. BUT since we have a FFL that is also lawyer owned, they can offer the service from the law office side. They will complete the form 1 with you, pictures, engraving, electronic fingerprints, etc. $200 tax stamp. $250 service fee including prints, engraving, etc.

2) @Dean Safety offers fingerprinting $40. You can also get them at some UPS stores and some USPS locations for higher prices. Doing paper print cards is a bad choice. Digital once and you have them forever.

3) @EddieCoyle offers NFA engraving $85 if my memory is correct. There are other places but he does top notch work


You can get a full service or ala cart services and roll your own forms. Some people are good at filling out government forms. Some are not... There are lots of best practices that you will not learn doing it yourself.

1) you have to notify CLEO of your form. Who do you notify? Who is best and who is worst?
2) you have to mark the maker. There is only one correct marking by default unless you do something specific when filing the form to change this. What and how?
3) should you send pictures of the object? Sometimes yes, sometimes no. What pictures and why yes and no?
4) what other information should be included in the comments section of the form to avoid denials (and yes, there are things you must put in there given you are in MA)

There are reasons using a service is a good choice unless you have an experienced friend who also knows all the regulations.
Click to expand...

This is great stuff.

@drgrant
@M1911

This should be a sticky. The post, not the entire thread.
 
LakeTrout said:
It looks like it would be unwieldy due to the weight in the rear and not a place to hold with the support hand that’s further toward the front. Is that accurate, or does it actually handle better than it looks like it would?
Click to expand...
There's very little mass in the rear other than the 1lb bolt. Balanced nicely by fifty rounds of 5.7
 
When I did mine, I engraved the lowers first.

Why?

Because if they got screwed up, then I didn't have to worry about how to correct/re-submit a form with a new serial number. In my case, if they got screwed up, I would just get a different lower engraved and submit the form based on that S/N.
 
CrackPot said:
My MP5s I only engrave the trigger pack. If you know, you know.
Click to expand...
would it be allowed to engrave only the drop-in trigger assembly body in the AR - if it is a triggertech or similar? or is it pushing it too far? :)
 
paul73 said:
would it be allowed to engrave only the drop-in trigger assembly body in the AR - if it is a triggertech or similar? or is it pushing it too far? :)
Click to expand...
No. My trigger pack and yours do not share as many attributes as you think... That is why I said "if you know, you know" and you do not know :)
 
LLF said:
I got my prints done at Dean Safety as well. Sam (Mill Gun Shop; same location as Dean) did the application for me. Got approved in 4 days.
Click to expand...
I didn't want to pay the additional fee's .
Especially after I actually filled out the form 1 and finding out it was as easy or easier than a 4473
 
DW357 said:
Dude. Stop giving bad and incorrect advice. Tell me you don’t have a SBR without telling me you don’t have a SBR.
You don’t engrave the upper (assuming an AR). Jesus Christ
Click to expand...
Amazing! A few months ago the same question was asked and the same clowns jumped on the OP for asking dumb question. Today, you idiots jump down my throat for mistyping shit. Next time, ANSWER THE F#$@ING QUESTION!!! Stupid keyboard warriors...
 

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