Making an SBR

CrackPot said:
This thread is a dumpster fire of bad information. I love NES!!!


There is what you MUST do and then there is how you go about it. Let's focus on what you must do

1) File a form 1 with the ATF paying a $200 tax stamp
2) mark the object in compliance with current ATF regulations for marking

You have to make some decisions about some of these

1) do you file as an individual or a trust. A trust used to be the right choice because you needed to ask permission of your CLEO but a trust did not. But that rule went away. Some people want a trust for inheritance (I can explain why this is bad and unnecessary separately). The one good reason I can think of for a trust is that multiple people will have individual access to items in the trust. I can give lots of bad reasons for trusts. 99% of my customers file as individuals

2) do you file electronically or paper. This is easy. You file electronically as the return time is ~30 days (we see 12hrs-5 days usually) for electronic and 4 months+ for paper. Current Processing Times | Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives Prints should be electronic too

3) Marking. It used to be the case that you could mark (maker, location minimum assuming all other required marks are present) almost anywhere. This drastically changed a couple years ago. In almost all cases you need to mark the gun in the same place the existing model/serial/etc are. Marking an AR anyplace but the lower is crazy talk since you want to be able to put any upper you want on the SBR lower.


Finally there is the how. How do you get these steps done.

1) @TheMillGunShop is a lawyer owned FFL and offers a service AS THE LAW OFFICE to do your Form 1 with/for you. The ATF does not permit a FFL to help with a Form 1 and it does not permit anyone but the person filing to do the Form 1. BUT since we have a FFL that is also lawyer owned, they can offer the service from the law office side. They will complete the form 1 with you, pictures, engraving, electronic fingerprints, etc. $200 tax stamp. $250 service fee including prints, engraving, etc.

2) @Dean Safety offers fingerprinting $40. You can also get them at some UPS stores and some USPS locations for higher prices. Doing paper print cards is a bad choice. Digital once and you have them forever.

3) @EddieCoyle offers NFA engraving $85 if my memory is correct. There are other places but he does top notch work


You can get a full service or ala cart services and roll your own forms. Some people are good at filling out government forms. Some are not... There are lots of best practices that you will not learn doing it yourself.

1) you have to notify CLEO of your form. Who do you notify? Who is best and who is worst?
2) you have to mark the maker. There is only one correct marking by default unless you do something specific when filing the form to change this. What and how?
3) should you send pictures of the object? Sometimes yes, sometimes no. What pictures and why yes and no?
4) what other information should be included in the comments section of the form to avoid denials (and yes, there are things you must put in there given you are in MA)

There are reasons using a service is a good choice unless you have an experienced friend who also knows all the regulations.
Click to expand...

Wait. You need a DIFFERENT serial # than the from-the-factory serial #? That just seems stupid.

If it's that plus the fingerprints, I might just use MillGunShop. Damn. Sometimes it's just not worth it. Freedom, somehow, is NOT free in this country. ;)
 
Dennis in MA said:
Wait. You need a DIFFERENT serial # than the from-the-factory serial #? That just seems stupid.
Click to expand...
ATF strongly encourages Form 1 makers to adopt the factory serial #; you still need to engrave the maker (you, your trust) info.
See the bottom half of page one here:
NFA Handbook said:
All NFA firearms must be identified by a serial number and other specified markings. If an existing firearm is being used in the making of the NFA weapon, and that firearm is serialized, the existing serial number should be used (unless it duplicates a serial number already used by the maker on Form 1) and entered in Block 4(g). If the weapon is of new manufacture, the applicant must assign a unique serial number...
.The serial number must be engraved or stamped on the receiver of the firearm and the caliber, model, and identification of the maker must be engraved on the barrel or frame or receiver of the weapon. The marking and identification requirements for a maker are the same as for a manufacturer.
Click to expand...
Note details on location for the serial number, and that your name (as the maker) doesn't need to be adjacent to the serial number.
 
Dennis in MA said:
Wait. You need a DIFFERENT serial # than the from-the-factory serial #? That just seems stupid.

If it's that plus the fingerprints, I might just use MillGunShop. Damn. Sometimes it's just not worth it. Freedom, somehow, is NOT free in this country. ;)
Click to expand...
Not sure how you got different serial numbers from my post. You can and usually should inherit all markings except maker and location. Caliber usually comes from barrel markings. The one time you would do markings outside the serialized part is if it’s marked multi and the barrel does not have caliber markings.
 
Kevin_NH said:
ATF strongly encourages Form 1 makers to adopt the factory serial #; you still need to engrave the maker (you, your trust) info.
See the bottom half of page one here:

Note details on location for the serial number, and that your name (as the maker) doesn't need to be adjacent to the serial number.
Click to expand...

So stupid. OK. Looks like I'm gonna get it done at Mill for convenience sake.

Now I just need to get my safe open. Don't ask. Long story. LOL
 
VTski4x4 said:
Why in the f*** would you advise someone to use the PD for fingerprints RE an SBR!?!? Talk about involving folks you don't need/want to involve in your life.
Click to expand...
Well…. You already have to send a copy of your application to the CLEO so why not?
 
CrackPot said:
3) Marking. It used to be the case that you could mark (maker, location minimum assuming all other required marks are present) almost anywhere. This drastically changed a couple years ago. In almost all cases you need to mark the gun in the same place the existing model/serial/etc are. Marking an AR anyplace but the lower is crazy talk since you want to be able to put any upper you want on the SBR lower.
Click to expand...
When did they stop allowing the marking of the barrel, frame or Receiver when making an SBR?

Is the info below outdated??

"The serial number must be engraved or stamped on the receiver of the firearm and the caliber, model, and identification of the maker must be engraved on the barrel or frame or receiver of the weapon.96 The marking and identification requirements for a maker are the same as for a manufacturer. Refer to section 7.4 for a detailed discussion of the requirements."
 
Then there's the whole ball of worms opened by the Pistol Brace Amnesty Form 1's...
AMV said:
CrackPot said:
3) Marking. It used to be the case that you could mark (maker, location minimum assuming all other required marks are present) almost anywhere. This drastically changed a couple years ago. In almost all cases you need to mark the gun in the same place the existing model/serial/etc are. Marking an AR anyplace but the lower is crazy talk since you want to be able to put any upper you want on the SBR lower.
Click to expand...
When did they stop allowing the marking of the barrel, frame or Receiver when making an SBR?
Is the info below outdated??
"The serial number must be engraved or stamped on the receiver of the firearm and the caliber, model, and identification of the maker must be engraved on the barrel or frame or receiver of the weapon.96 The marking and identification requirements for a maker are the same as for a manufacturer. Refer to section 7.4 for a detailed discussion of the requirements."
Click to expand...
For a Form-1 SBR/SBS, you always "adopt" the original manufacturer serial #, that hasn't changed in decades.

Perhaps CrackPot is referring to [Overview of Final Rule 2021R-05F Definition of “Frame or Receiver” and Identification of Firearms | Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives RULE 2021R-05F-Definition of "Frame or Receiver" and Identification of Firearms[/URL], which primarily addresses “Privately Made Firearms” (“PMF”)?

See the updated regulations here: 27 CFR § 478.92 | eRegulations
 
Golddiggie said:
@Mountain can help you out there too. Let me know if you need to go the thermite route. ;)
Click to expand...

It's a Liberty. They might have the combo. I need a serial #. SERIAL #??? If i had the MF paperwork, I'D OPEN THE MF SAFE MYSELF!!!!!!

When I get a free moment, I'll call Eastern Security and see if htey ahve my 26 yr old paperwork.
 
Are we allowed to make an non-SBR, regular AR pistol build with a brace and a 14.5 unpinned upper, effectively making a full build that's over 26 inches? Is that still considered an AR pistol? Or does the over 26 inches make it a no-no?
 
G4Y4HK said:
Are we allowed to make an non-SBR, regular AR pistol build with a brace and a 14.5 unpinned upper, effectively making a full build that's over 26 inches? Is that still considered an AR pistol? Or does the over 26 inches make it a no-no?
Click to expand...
The "brace" might be an issue. An OAL of +26" generally results in an "other" instead of a pistol, however ATF no longer counts the brace towards OAL. and the whole stabilizing brace kerfuffle could still fall the other direction.
 
vickysgirl56 said:
Just like the title says I want to Sbr one of my sig mcxs. How do I do this and what forms do I need to fill out. Thanks!
Click to expand...

1. Go get your fingerprints. You can make an appt at a UPS where they do it and they’ll email you an EFT file. Save the EFT to your computer.

2. Save a recent clear profile pic as well as save pics of your license and in MA, your LTC. Both front and back. Save to your computer.

3. Save clear pics of your MCX lower that show serial number and manufacturer info.

4. Create profile on eforms.atf.gov

5. Click to submit a form1, I always do individual. It’s simpler than Trust in my opinion. Individual form 1s take me about 10 minutes to complete and submit.

6. After you’ve done all the steps and submitted the form1, you’ll get a copy of it for the LEO and cover page. Print the LEO copy and mail it to your CLEO which can be your sheriff, your police chief, Colonel of the state police, your AG, etc. In NH I’ve sent them to the State Police Colonel and the NH AG.

7. Wait. They’ll email you your approved form1 with tax stamp as well as save it to your eforms account. I’ve recently gotten form1s and form4s back in less than 24 hours and as long as 3 months. This part sucks. Be patient.

8. Go get your MCX lower engraved with your name, town, and state, whatever you put on your form1 as maker (you’re the maker even if SIG manufactured the MCX).

9. Install short barrel and enjoy your new SBR.

Like I said, at first, this process seems to suck but half of this process you literally do once, and then subsequent form1s are quick and easy. Typically taking about 10 minutes to do. I’ll submit four or five at a time if I plan to SBR multiple firearms. They generally come back in batches.
 
Tartakovsky said:
1. Go get your fingerprints. You can make an appt at a UPS where they do it and they’ll email you an EFT file. Save the EFT to your computer.

2. Save a recent clear profile pic as well as save pics of your license and in MA, your LTC. Both front and back. Save to your computer.

3. Save clear pics of your MCX lower that show serial number and manufacturer info.

4. Create profile on eforms.atf.gov

5. Click to submit a form1, I always do individual. It’s simpler than Trust in my opinion. Individual form 1s take me about 10 minutes to complete and submit.

6. After you’ve done all the steps and submitted the form1, you’ll get a copy of it for the LEO and cover page. Print the LEO copy and mail it to your CLEO which can be your sheriff, your police chief, Colonel of the state police, your AG, etc. In NH I’ve sent them to the State Police Colonel and the NH AG.

7. Wait. They’ll email you your approved form1 with tax stamp as well as save it to your eforms account. I’ve recently gotten form1s and form4s back in less than 24 hours and as long as 3 months. This part sucks. Be patient.

8. Go get your MCX lower engraved with your name, town, and state, whatever you put on your form1 as maker (you’re the maker even if SIG manufactured the MCX).

9. Install short barrel and enjoy your new SBR.

Like I said, at first, this process seems to suck but half of this process you literally do once, and then subsequent form1s are quick and easy. Typically taking about 10 minutes to do. I’ll submit four or five at a time if I plan to SBR multiple firearms. They generally come back in batches.
Click to expand...

#3 is not needed. Doesn't hurt but Doesn't help either
 
So I sent my form1 in on Oct 10th for an SBR build didn't have digital prints but FedEx the prints a couple days later.
Is the non digital prints whats holding up my app we will be at 90 days today? Its still listed as submitted in process
 
RYJ said:
So I sent my form1 in on Oct 10th for an SBR build didn't have digital prints but FedEx the prints a couple days later.
I the non digital prints whats holding up my app we will be at 90 days today? Its still listed as submitted in process
Click to expand...

Shouldn't take this long. Unless you have the same name as a serial killer and you are still in in fbi background. Where did you send the prints? West Virginia I assume? I would suggest you call and give them either your social or the control number. They can tell you what the issue is
 
Lxpony said:
Shouldn't take this long. Unless you have the same name as a serial killer and you are still in in fbi background. Where did you send the prints? West Virginia I assume? I would suggest you call and give them either your social or the control number. They can tell you what the issue is
Click to expand...
I have no issues with NICS checks when buying at an FFL. I emailed them and got an automated response to check their current wait times. which says 34 days! no number to call.

M
 

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