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Need a good boston compliant rifle... Is m1a the best ?
- Thread starter Queen Bee
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I vote for a Sub2000 that uses the same mags as whatever Glock, Beretta, or S&W pistol would be your main "go to" handgun. You will have much better accuracy at longer ranges, better muzzle velocity, and since it is pistol caliber, won't likely kill your neighbors in the next 3, or 4 apartments like an M1, or other high powered rifle round could. Cool little rifle that you can stow in a laptop case, or backpack if you have to get out of dodge in a hurry too...![[wink]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/002.gif "Wink [wink]")
an M1A in an apartment? I love the M1A, want to get one. In fact, my dad keeps insisting I get one....I can see it as par excellance for SHTF and the ultimate reach out and touch someone rifle, but I don't know about in an apartment. you are better off with something that can shoot .556 if you insist on a rifle.
I vote for a Sub2000 that uses the same mags as whatever Glock, Beretta, or S&W pistol would be your main "go to" handgun. You will have much better accuracy at longer ranges, better muzzle velocity, and since it is pistol caliber, won't likely kill your neighbors in the next 3, or 4 apartments like an M1, or other high powered rifle round could. Cool little rifle that you can stow in a laptop case, or backpack if you have to get out of dodge in a hurry too...
A .308 with FMJ does have such a penetration risk. A good fragmenting 150gr BTHP or ballistic tip does not. The 308 is fine if a good load is chosen. Not ideal, but not the penetration danger assumed.
I got an M1A Scout and love it. It's a monster.
Get one if it's on your list (pre-ban mags ok?), but not for HD or bugout.
For those uses, I like the suggestions of a Tavor or a carbine in your pistol caliber - lighter and easier to conceal/maneuver
.308 is harder to carry or replace. It's 2x heavier than 9mm & 5.56
Get one if it's on your list (pre-ban mags ok?), but not for HD or bugout.
For those uses, I like the suggestions of a Tavor or a carbine in your pistol caliber - lighter and easier to conceal/maneuver
.308 is harder to carry or replace. It's 2x heavier than 9mm & 5.56
No need to be half kidding. .44 mag out of a lever action will easily handle most social situations out to 100 yards. Put a ghost ring rear sight or Aimpoint H1 on it and call it done.
Pre-ban normal capacity rifle magazines are not allowed in Boston, but she could store them with her AK for when she is free.
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I'd love to see a lever action carbine in 9mm. I'm guessing the rimless case might be a problem, but I think it would be awesome.
TOM1960
Banned
Urban .308 load? Hornady TAP 110 grain hands-down. Using my Ruger KM77MKII .308 rifle, I hit a coyote at 200 yards with this load. Turned his insides to jelly. What a mess! There was no exit wound and the bullet completely exploded inside him. One of the most nasty fragmenting .308 rounds ever, but with limited penetration. Should be OK for use inside of a dwelling, if .308 is your caliber of choice.
beaker
NES Member
Actually the KelTec sub 2000 in 9mm would be a good choice as you can use your Glock mags and share ammo. It also fits in a very small bag when folded. They shoot pretty well too. Needs a decent red dot sight as the stock sights are terrible.
Sent from my Galaxy S4 using Tapatalk Pro - typos are from the GD auto correct unless they are funny substitutions those I'll take credit for.
Sent from my Galaxy S4 using Tapatalk Pro - typos are from the GD auto correct unless they are funny substitutions those I'll take credit for.
I must not be taking my crazy pills, but a attempting to justify .308 for home defense when the home is a an apartment in the ghetto that is Dorchester is completely nutty. It is a very built up area of the city, there is no need or ability to use the long-range power of the .308 at all, and the size/weight of all the firearms being considered are insane to use inside of a dwelling with tight corners/furniture/doorways. Even a Tavor is pretty outlandish, but at least feasible due to short overall length.
Please let me know when you see dedicated urban units using M1As or .308s when they go in to clear houses... Even SWAT, which is waaaaaay over the top in terms of tactical gear, is smart enough to not try to wield that kind of pointless firepower in that sort of setting. Pistol-caliber sub-machine guns, or very very short 5.56 firearms are what you see for the most part (even those are overkill, and short 5.56 firearms have no stopping power due to degradation of bullet tumble). Maybe a shotgun or two due to the mass-area attach (less chance of missing) available, or mostly due to door-breaching capability (not a need in this situation).
I'd go with KISS on this: handgun and flashlight, unless you've pissed off the local drug dealers already.
Please let me know when you see dedicated urban units using M1As or .308s when they go in to clear houses... Even SWAT, which is waaaaaay over the top in terms of tactical gear, is smart enough to not try to wield that kind of pointless firepower in that sort of setting. Pistol-caliber sub-machine guns, or very very short 5.56 firearms are what you see for the most part (even those are overkill, and short 5.56 firearms have no stopping power due to degradation of bullet tumble). Maybe a shotgun or two due to the mass-area attach (less chance of missing) available, or mostly due to door-breaching capability (not a need in this situation).
I'd go with KISS on this: handgun and flashlight, unless you've pissed off the local drug dealers already.
I agree that a pistol with a light is the best option for an apartment, and that .308 is overkill and unsafe for the situation. However, I need to bring up a couple points:
1. There are actually nice parts of Dorchester now. It's gentrifying and it's not all ghetto.
2. What do you mean by "degredation of bullet tumble"? Even though shorter barrels have less muzzle velocity, the bullets are still supersonic at CQB distances and do indeed become unstable when they enter terminal ballistics. With a 10.5" barrel, M855 travels at ~2600ft/sec leaving the barrel. It needs to stay above 2500ft/sec in order to have the optimal terminal ballistics. The bullet isn't going to be dropping 100ft/sec within 25 yards. 55gr ammo would be traveling even faster and is actually a better option to prevent overpenetration in a CQB setting. To say that 5.56mm in a short barrel(10.5"+) doesn't have stopping power is just innaccurate. Perhaps you can sit down and have a discussion with SOCOM, FBI HRT, etc. Let them know they're doing it wrong. This is moot however, because the Tavor is overall short, but has a 16" barrel.
3. It's actually VERY easy to miss with a shotgun, unless you load it with bird shot. And then lethality is genuinely in question. Not to mention that shotguns require 18" barrels and generally have very low round counts and delayed follow-up shots. Shotguns are a horrible recommendation for apartment defense.
I'll take a look at the
Keeping in mind i said my rifle is my second option for HD, wrol. First is my glock with weapon light.
keltec, s2000 in .45 and 9,
Keltec su-16 in 5.56
And im still keeping my m1a in the mix. Keeping in mind my primary hd gun in my 21sf with 2 mags. Still not into shotguns.
At the price of the kriss id rather buy a tavor or my m1a, now if massachusetts allowed the pistol version id be all over it with sigs new arm brace... I wish...
But i do wonder about the grey area of a glock mag becoming a rifle magazine in the keltec s2000 and kriss??
Keeping in mind i said my rifle is my second option for HD, wrol. First is my glock with weapon light.
keltec, s2000 in .45 and 9,
Keltec su-16 in 5.56
And im still keeping my m1a in the mix. Keeping in mind my primary hd gun in my 21sf with 2 mags. Still not into shotguns.
At the price of the kriss id rather buy a tavor or my m1a, now if massachusetts allowed the pistol version id be all over it with sigs new arm brace... I wish...
But i do wonder about the grey area of a glock mag becoming a rifle magazine in the keltec s2000 and kriss??
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That's an interesting question regarding the mags being considered rifle mags in those guns, but I doubt its an issue since they are in fact "pistol" mags, and the ammunition is not considered "rifle" ammunition either. Of course there are other pistol caliber rifles that do use "rifle" mags such as the MP5, so it does indeed get a bit dicey.
Serious question - does the law in MA require stocks on rifles, or do the rifles just have to be some OAL?So I guess the AR-18 with stock removed is right out, then?
Seriously, a Keltec 9mm with 9mm pistol or a .357 lever action with .357 revolver would be good choices.
1. An area is gentrified when you are ONE TO TWO BLOCK away from the Ghetto? Lots of my friends live in extremely expensive gentrified areas of South End, they invite me over and ask me why I pack heat. Must have something to do with the fact that MULTIPLE PEOPLE GET KILLED AT ONE TIME 2 blocks away at bars. Yes, more than once. Exactly where I like to have to find street parking (two blocks away, of course) for my brand new car... Sure, they have a gated parking lot for their cars... Anyway, a neighborhood isn't a good neighborhood until the schools aren't complete trash, and the crime map doesn't look like the heat index of my engine after 40 min of trying to find parking. Get back to me about Dorchester in another 10 yrs, then I'll probably agree with you. It has improved quite a lot in last 10 years, but we aren't quite there yet.
2. Unless your head has been in the sand (hehe, or perhaps not enough?) you may have heard about the problems in Iraq/Afghanistan/Somalia where people were shot multiple times with 5.56 and didn't go down. It got them, zipped right through them. The bullets had power, but no tumble, and it is an issue that is more and more common as our forces move to shorter and shorter barrels. Now, you can say "but the new bullet takes care of that..." Does it really though? Read the discussions online. The general thought is, don't go below 16 or 18 if you want good performance (tumble) in your 5.56. I'm not saying that zipping holes through a guy won't kill them, but I don't really want them to be up and around for 5 minutes before they succumb. The argument is probably like Apple vs Microsoft, but I've picked my side that I believe in. There were no problems and never have been problems out of longer barrels (I say this as someone who has used 5.56/.223 out of 18" barrels for hunting for years, decent size game too). I figure if you buy an AR, at least invest in a good barrel so you are covered for situations that aren't 25 yard shootouts as well. On a side note: new model Tavor comes with 18" barrel and is still super short, so a great rifle.
3. If you can take a blast of heavy shot in the confines of an apartment and survive, my hats off to you. I'm saying its not what I would use, but SWAT did use that for quite a while, as did police, and it was damn effective. Not many people survive shotgun blasts within 50 feet. Having a shotgun with 8 rounds of serious shot, you will wreck everything in apt including anyone on other side of doors/walls in your own unit. I would not feel under-gunned AT ALL.
fencer
NES Member
I get it... the Glock is for home defense and the rifle is in case we ever have LA style riots and you need to head to the roof like a Korean store owner and keep the looters from grabbing your twinkies.
Garand.
Kills bugs dead and you could use it to paddle a canoe down the Charles.
Garand.
Kills bugs dead and you could use it to paddle a canoe down the Charles.
moparmatt383
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I am surprised the Ruger Mini 14 Ranch Rifle has not gained more traction in this thread. I live in Boston and that is my go to.
List of pros to the original poster-
1- A nice one can be had for $600 or less
2- A scope can be easily mounted
3- 223 ammo is very common and would probably the most common ammo in a S**t hits the fan senerio
4- They are light and handy
5- They are easy to shoot
6- Legal across the whole country (even NYC)
An M1A is a great rifle but unless you reload practicing a lot with it so you are proficient will be very expensive. $0.60 to a dollar per shot.
Just my 2 cents.
Matt
List of pros to the original poster-
1- A nice one can be had for $600 or less
2- A scope can be easily mounted
3- 223 ammo is very common and would probably the most common ammo in a S**t hits the fan senerio
4- They are light and handy
5- They are easy to shoot
6- Legal across the whole country (even NYC)
An M1A is a great rifle but unless you reload practicing a lot with it so you are proficient will be very expensive. $0.60 to a dollar per shot.
Just my 2 cents.
Matt
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I would really want to get a Mini-14 if it took STANAG mags. That's a dealbreaker for me when it comes to a semi 223/556
I'm still tempted when I see them though
I love my M1a scout. Its solid, accurate, very dependable (despite what others have written. I must have a lucky one) and powerful. That said, its a medium to long range rifle. More medium than anything. Its a nice tool to have in the toolbox but until I got it recently, I never felt I needed something besides a couple shotguns (pistol grip pump and a semi auto) and a pistol or two. I wouldnt consider an M1a for traveling or an apartment gun. In theory it could be a decent longer range suppressive fire type gun, but its a stretch to see that as a primary use/excuse.
sorry i thought you were talking just about the keltec sub 2K
i never remembered they made a rifle called the keltec su-16. it slipped my mind
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me and a friend are going to go into reloading 308 if i buy the rifle..
slap shot
NES Member
you're right
i've never heard of the su-16would that be legal ? it can hold 30 rd mags
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Fondled a bunch of sweet lever actions at Collector's in Stoneham on Saturday. I need one of those.
Been there 3 times and this was the first time i even noticed the upstairs area lol
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-Dorchester may have occasional crime, but that doesn't mean it's still the ghetto. Mattapan is the ghetto, for example. Yes, it'll take more time for Dorchester to be a "nice" neighborhood, but that doesn't make it the ghetto.
-I've been in the sand quite a bit, don't worry. All you're doing is throwing out rumors and internet BS. The fact is that 5.56mm has reliable lethal wound cavities at and above 2500 ft/sec. It's a simple matter of picking the appropriate barrel length for your needs. No, a 10.5" barrel won't be very good for battle rifle distances. For those distances there are SDMs, crew serveds and Mk-48s. But a 10.5"-11.5" in 5.56mm is quite lethal for urban combat.
-Shotguns make a lot of noise and kick, but they're just simply not good for apartment defense. They're long, slow to aim in the tight confines of a city apartment, and slow for follow up shots. Plus, their supposed advantage of "not having to aim" is complete malarkey. Oh, and please quantify "not many people survive shotgun blasts within 50 feet". What percentage? Where are these hits? Are we talking about all pellets hitting the torso or head? Or are we talking about if any of the pellets hit the person. Basically, I call BS on your claim there.
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