Police respond to report of shooting at pro-Israeli protest in Newton

HeDidIt said:
I'm going to drop this right here. I haven't watched it yet but I will go with what he says.


View: https://youtu.be/3Rv-ecRpx9c?si=-z3TNTrGuFqywuau
Click to expand...

He says tough ride with proportionality

Given he is an expert on these cases he is likely right
It's also never a bad idea to bet on the side of tyranny in Mass.

If I'm on a jury for something like this I'd have a very hard time voting guilty.
 
Just spit-balling, how many people have been killed or seriously wounded via the so-called "knockout game"? Pretty sure it's more than 1 or 2. Does being subject to a "knockout game" attack rise to level of potential deadly force? What's the effective difference, in the moment of the attack, between a "knockout game" attack and the attack on Hayes?
 
Rob Boudrie said:
For starters -

Flight gives the impression of guilt. This causes things to go worse in numerous ways, and the chances of not being caught after a self defense incident in which a gun is fired is slim. Witnesses and cameras everywhere, plus cell phone tracking to prove you were in the vicinity.
Click to expand...
I tend to agree there’s also situations where you should just get the f*** out of there… if you didn’t commit a crime there’s no real duty to turn yourself in either. They’ll find you though.

I figured it was better to flee once we had everybody together then stand around and wait for a drive-by
 
kevin9 said:
Just spit-balling, how many people have been killed or seriously wounded via the so-called "knockout game"? Pretty sure it's more than 1 or 2. Does being subject to a "knockout game" attack rise to level of potential deadly force? What's the effective difference, in the moment of the attack, between a "knockout game" attack and the attack on Hayes?
Click to expand...
Uhhhh seeing the attack coming and having about 5 seconds of preparation?
 
Grendizer138 said:
Uhhhh seeing the attack coming and having about 5 seconds of preparation?
Click to expand...
From the time he started running till impact was less than half that, and it was good example of that 20' reaction distance often referred to. It is not a lot of time to determine intent, his capability, your own relative capability, and have time to act. And those that shoot with a clock, will tell you under ideal conditions you'd likely need half the time left to draw and shoot. Even if you choose not to draw you still need to have that time, just in case. So you are left with about 1-1.5 seconds to evaluate the situation, make a decision, and act. Best be dam sure what you do will stop him, because you don't have time for a second choice.
 
42! said:
From the time he started running till impact was less than half that, and it was good example of that 20' reaction distance often referred to. It is not a lot of time to determine intent, his capability, your own relative capability, and have time to act. And those that shoot with a clock, will tell you under ideal conditions you'd likely need half the time left to draw and shoot. Even if you choose not to draw you still need to have that time, just in case. So you are left with about 1-1.5 seconds to evaluate the situation, make a decision, and act. Best be dam sure what you do will stop him, because you don't have time for a second choice.
Click to expand...
And Hayes apparently had his back to the attacker so subtract some more time from the aforementioned 5 seconds.
And how much time is sufficient for preparation 1, 2, 3, 4 seconds?
 
nstassel said:
There is a jury instruction explaining that when a person flees it may be a sign of a guilty conscious.
Click to expand...
I'm still struggling to follow this tbh. The jury is determining a verdict on specific charges (A&B, manslaughter, etc.), right? Is "guilty conscience" one of the charges? Does a guilty conscience negate the actual reality of what happened? I understand why fleeing the scene coupd be interpreted as the sign of a guilty conscience but what I don't understand is why a guilty conscience matters.
 
pewpewpew said:
I'm still struggling to follow this tbh. The jury is determining a verdict on specific charges (A&B, manslaughter, etc.), right? Is "guilty conscience" one of the charges? Does a guilty conscience negate the actual reality of what happened? I understand why fleeing the scene coupd be interpreted as the sign of a guilty conscience but what I don't understand is why a guilty conscience matters.
Click to expand...
I'm still here wondering if the MA duty to retreat is constitutional in light of your 1a right to protest.

If it is, as soon as your counter protested it's time to leave.
 
Grendizer138 said:
This thread is wild.
Click to expand...
The five stages of grief are:
  • Denial
  • Anger
  • Bargaining
  • Depression
  • Acceptance
All five are on display in this thread. Whether it is understood or not, we are all grieving the society we now live in where there are basically no consequences for bad behavior, and punishments for those who take dishing it out into their own hands in self-defense scenarios (and possibly others). We are expected to be victims and look to the corrupt and deeply flawed legal system for remedy which oftentimes is never delivered.
 
pewpewpew said:
The five stages of grief are:
  • Denial
  • Anger
  • Bargaining
  • Depression
  • Acceptance
All five are on display in this thread. Whether it is understood or not, we are all grieving the society we now live in where there are basically no consequences for bad behavior, and punishments for those who take dishing it out into their own hands in self-defense scenarios (and possibly others). We are expected to be victims and look to the corrupt and deeply flawed legal system for remedy which oftentimes is never delivered.
Click to expand...

If the protester died to a brain hemorrhage when his skull bounced off the pavement people would be singing a different tune, but because he was still alive when the attacker had his hands around his throat, he's expected to use what air he has left to beat him off.
 
Drix said:
but because he was still alive when the attacker had his hands around his throat, he's expected to use what air he has left to beat him off.
Click to expand...
Ah yes, the dreaded "rape choke" or "homer simpson choke."

Probably the hardest choke to get into and the easiest to escape.
 
not new guy said:
1a is about the government interfering in your free speech, not somebody punching you in the beak over what you said.
Click to expand...
The government requiring you to run in the face of counter protesting *is* interfering with your free speech.

Cohen v California is an example of a state restricting free speech and getting slapped down because the state "isn't congress".
 
Dench said:
Ah yes, the dreaded "rape choke" or "homer simpson choke."
Click to expand...

Correct. You can only respond with a proportional level of force based on the type of choking that is in progress and the amount of shit talking that led to that. /s
 
HeDidIt said:
I'm going to drop this right here. I haven't watched it yet but I will go with what he says.


View: https://youtu.be/3Rv-ecRpx9c?si=-z3TNTrGuFqywuau
Click to expand...

He says tough ride with proportionality

Given he is an expert on these cases he is likely right
It's also never a bad idea to bet on the side of tyranny in Mass.

If I'm on a jury for something like this I'd have a very hard time voting guilty.
 
pewpewpew said:
The five stages of grief are:
  • Denial
  • Anger
  • Bargaining
  • Depression
  • Acceptance
All five are on display in this thread. Whether it is understood or not, we are all grieving the society we now live in where there are basically no consequences for bad behavior, and punishments for those who take dishing it out into their own hands in self-defense scenarios (and possibly others). We are expected to be victims and look to the corrupt and deeply flawed legal system for remedy which oftentimes is never delivered.
Click to expand...
Don’t look at me. I’m grieving because I actually think men need to fight more.
 
pastera said:
He says tough ride with proportionality

Given he is an expert on these cases he is likely right
It's also never a bad idea to bet on the side of tyranny in Mass.

If I'm on a jury for something like this I'd have a very hard time voting guilty.
Click to expand...

But the legal advice I got earlier in this thread is that proportionality isn't a thing. Strange.
 

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