Practical Implications of H4885 for Purchasing and Possessing

[Beefsteak26]

Has anyone seen anything that would prohibit buying a preban mag in a different state post 10/23 and bringing it in to MA?

 

[chris_1001]

Has anyone seen anything that would prohibit buying a preban mag in a different state post 10/23 and bringing it in to MA?

Just you posting it in an open forum that you would do such a thing…

 

[Dominator11]

Just you posting it in an open forum that you would do such a thing…

I thought it was the classified. My bad

 

[Dominator11]

I thought it was the classified. My bad

Probably get the same skinners posting anyways lol

 

[chris_1001]

Probably get the same skinners posting anyways lol

? Lost me.

 

[HorizontalHunter]

So my “mags” are now going to be referred to as “clips”.

Take that mura!

ClippaZine for the win

 

[chris_1001]

ClippaZine for the win

Do I have to register and serialize my 30 round ghost clips?

Asking for a friend.

 

[chris_1001]

Funny story

Took a handgun class a long while back, said I need a new clip. The instructor gave me a rash of shit (I would have as well).

I looked at him straight in the eye and said, binder clip. Mine fell off the target holder.

Probably had to be there.

 

[HorizontalHunter]

Do I have to register and serialize my 30 round ghost clips?

Asking for a friend.

Hell no

 

[milktree]

Concur - nothin
And if you transfer the mags outside of Mass then you as the seller have ZERO liability since the buyer subsequently imported them back into Mass.

Drive over state line
Hand mag to resident of different state who then hands it to buyer.
Mass law only comes into play when the buyer "imports" the magazine.

Has anyone seen anything that would prohibit buying a preban mag in a different state post 10/23 and bringing it in to MA?

EDIT!
I misread the last bit of 131M(c) and I was wrong. Still have to make the transfer out of state. Sorry!

I would like to draw your attention to the language in §131M, specifically §131M(c)(iv) and (v)

(c) Subsection (a) shall not apply to large capacity feeding devices lawfully possessed on September 13, 1994 only if such possession is:

(i) on private property owned or legally controlled by the person in possession of the large capacity feeding device;​

(ii) on private property that is not open to the public with the express permission of the property owner or the property owner’s authorized agent;​

(iii) while on the premises of a licensed firearms dealer or gunsmith for the purpose of lawful repair;​

(iv) at a licensed firing range or sports shooting competition venue; or​

(v) while traveling to and from these locations; provided, that the large capacity feeding device is stored unloaded and secured in a locked container in accordance with sections 131C and 131L.​

So, as long as the offer for sale, sale, and transfer happens at a licensed gun range, or in your house, or some other private property where you have permission of the owner or agent, and you make the transfer through an intermediary out of state as the law is written, it's legal.

 

[milktree]

Sorry if I’m missing something. Pastera’s comments speak to selling as an MA resident, but I’m talking about buying. I’ve read the new 131M, and unlike the ASF pre-8/1 carve-out which is specific to lawful possession in Massachusetts on 8/1, that subsection (c) does not say anything about being in Massachusetts. Is a pre-ban mag in lawful possession of a NH dealer not within (c)(iii)? Couldn’t I buy it there and bring it to my private property as long as I comply with (c)(v)?

Your interpretation matches my reading, so, yes.


The actual law:

Section 131M.

(a) No person shall possess, own, offer for sale, sell or otherwise transfer in the commonwealth or import into the commonwealth an assault-style firearm, or a large capacity feeding device.

Blanket statement that it's illegal to possess any full capacity magazine, period.

But there's an exception in subsection (c) (edited for clarity)

Section 131M(c)

(c) Subsection (a) shall not apply to large capacity feeding devices lawfully possessed on September 13, 1994 only if such possession is:

(ii) on private property that is not open to the public with the express permission of the property owner or the property owner’s authorized agent;​

(iv) at a licensed firing range or sports shooting competition venue; or​

(v) while traveling to and from these locations; provided, that the large capacity feeding device is stored unloaded and secured in a locked container in accordance with sections 131C and 131L.​

Buy at a club or a the seller's house or your own house and follow the idiotic transport rules, and you haven't violated §131M

EDIT!

I misread/missed a bit of §131M(c).

Transfer still has to happen through an intermediary in another state.

Crap, sorry for misleading anyone.

 

[chris_1001]

Your interpretation matches my reading, so, yes.


The actual law:



Blanket statement that it's illegal to possess any full capacity magazine, period.

But there's an exception in subsection (c) (edited for clarity)



Buy at a club or a the seller's house or your own house and follow the idiotic transport rules, and you haven't violated §131M

Oooh! Loophole! In!

 

[milktree]

Oooh! Loophole! In!

EDIT: I misread the last paragraph of §131M(c)

Just make sure you don't make the sale/transfer at a gun shop, because the exception to (a) only exists if the mag is there for repair! in Mass., and use a non-mass resident as an intermediary. (Mass law can't regulate the transfer between MA residents in NH, but it can't hurt to use a non-resident)

 

[Bmcl322]

Put a serial number on it and FA10 it. use "model: none", and "barrel length: none" and "caliber: none" and "manufacturer: other"

I would suggest the serial number: NOSERIALNUMBER or maybe N053R1AL or even M1551NG

Do serial numbers have to have numbers? Can you use Roman Numerals for serial numbers? What about just letters? Using just letters gets you a lot more address space in the same number of characters. How long can a serial number be? How about the MD5sum of the date/time when you inscribed it? Right now would be fa1a575bacde8ea0045165be89a958bb

When I eFA-10 my firearms, the serial number I use is the symbol which means, "The Artist Formally Known as Prince".

Prince (musician) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[CrackPot]

Sooooo, sell the gun at asking price and then give the mags for free. I know very weak but I didn’t read anything regarding giving stuff away being illegal.

Law says no transfer. It’s not about the money. They are stopping movement.

 

[CrackPot]

So under this bill a firearm that already has a serial number now needs another for the state?

That seems crazy? Am I wrong in this?

No. Under federal law a gun needs a proper serial number unless home made. This law only mandates serialization of unserialized guns.

 

[milktree]

Law says no transfer.

…. Unless you’re on private property and not trespassing, or at a gun range…

It’s not about the money. They are stopping movement.

That’s what they meant, but not what they wrote.

EDIT: CrackPot is absolutely right. I misread / missed the last part of §131M(c)

 

[CrackPot]

I would like to draw your attention to the language in §131M, specifically §131M(c)(iv) and (v)



So, as long as the offer for sale, sale, and transfer happens at a licensed gun range, or in your house, or some other private property where you have permission of the owner or agent, as the law is written, it's 100% legal.

Just don't advertise for sale on The Internet, and don't meet up in a McDonald's parking lot.

Excellent reading.

 

[DJBrad]

I would like to draw your attention to the language in §131M, specifically §131M(c)(iv) and (v)



So, as long as the offer for sale, sale, and transfer happens at a licensed gun range, or in your house, or some other private property where you have permission of the owner or agent, as the law is written, it's 100% legal.

Just don't advertise for sale on The Internet, and don't meet up in a McDonald's parking lot.

You can come test them out too.

 

[TLB]

Thought a had a "loophole" there for selling my older, pre-everything semi-auto pistols with their original factory magazines included... but I guess not.

But when I think further about it, why would Maura and Andrea care? Maura would tell me to go sell them out of state if I wanted to recoup their full market value.

Plus Andrea made a point during her campaign about attacking evil "gun hoarders"... previously known as "gun collectors." I'll bet she thinks this is a good start.

So, you "drive" to NH for the mag "transfer".

ETA: Late to the workaround party.

 

[Cuz]

The word they use is "transfer", basically a catch-all, I was thinking of loaning them but that would be transferring them as well.

But if you “lost” them, and someone else “found” them, would they be allowed to “keep” them?

Heck, I lose stuff all the time.

This whole thread is making my head hurt, but I suppose that’s the idea of it.

Carry on…

 

[pastera]

But if you “lost” them, and someone else “found” them, would they be allowed to “keep” them?

Heck, I lose stuff all the time.

This whole thread is making my head hurt, but I suppose that’s the idea of it.

Carry on…

@milktree details out the correct reading of the laws text here.

Looks like they screwed up and allow you to transfer on private property not open to the public...

Edit: Went back and reread the actual FULL text of 131m(c)

(c) Subsection (a) shall not apply to large capacity feeding devices lawfully possessed on
September 13, 1994 only if such possession is:

(i) on private property owned or legally controlled by the person in possession of the large capacity feeding device;​

(ii) on private property that is not open to the public with the express permission of the property owner or the property owner’s authorized agent;​

(iii) while on the premises of a licensed firearms dealer or gunsmith for the purpose of lawful repair;​

(iv) at a licensed firing range or sports shooting competition venue; or​

(v) while traveling to and from these locations; provided, that the large capacity feeding device is stored unloaded and secured in a locked container in accordance with sections 131C and 131L.​

A person authorized under this subsection to possess a large capacity feeding device may only transfer the device to an heir or devisee, a person residing outside the commonwealth, or a licensed dealer.

So, NO you cannot transfer within Mass except to a non-resident.
But Mass laws don't apply outside Mass. Still leaves the import issue but since it is Friday


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uUEUG-e5w1I

 

[Cuz]

@milktree details out the correct reading of the laws text here.

Looks like they screwed up and allow you to transfer on private property not open to the public...

I’m sure that’ll get corrected next time around.

 

[Rockrivr1]

I’m sure that’ll get corrected next time around.

Probably too late at this point, but SSSSHHHHH!!!!! What they don't know won't hurt them.

 

[LuvDog]

@milktree details out the correct reading of the laws text here.

Looks like they screwed up and allow you to transfer on private property not open to the public...

Edit: Went back and reread the actual FULL text of 131m(c)


So, NO you cannot transfer within Mass except to a non-resident.
But Mass laws don't apply outside Mass. Still leaves the import issue but since it is Friday


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uUEUG-e5w1I

I’m sure that’ll get corrected next time around.

Well, we know they watch this forum. We also know that those "open forums" they held to discuss the pending bill were simply information gathering sessions for them to keep adding stuff to the bill.

So, they'll read this and tack on some additional sub section which outlaws it and also accidently outlaws the sale of any size magazine because they really have no clue how a firearm or feeding device actually work.

 

[pastera]

I’m sure that’ll get corrected next time around.

Edited my post - @milktree cut a very important part of subsection 131m(c) out that excludes transfers between residents from part (c)'s exemption.
So, no you cannot legally transfer a LCFD between two Mass residents on private property not open to the public.

 

[Rockrivr1]

Edited my post - @milktree cut a very important part of subsection 131m(c) out that excludes transfers between residents from part (c)'s exemption.
So, no you cannot legally transfer a LCFD between two Mass residents on private property not open to the public.

Killjoy!

 

[EJFudd]

So, you "drive" to NH for the mag "transfer".

ETA: Late to the workaround party.

All good ideas (thank you!), but it still sounds like the safest and least hassle/least traveling route is to sell the guns and their factory original magazines out of state via Gunbroker or similar. It's really too bad that they have to leave the state, but hopefully this is a temporary situation to be resolved by SCOTUS someday before I kick.

 

[milktree]

Edited my post - @milktree cut a very important part of subsection 131m(c) out that excludes transfers between residents from part (c)'s exemption.
So, no you cannot legally transfer a LCFD between two Mass residents on private property not open to the public.

Ah crap. You're right.

I gotta go edit all those posts now.

Thanks.

 

[pastera]

Killjoy!

You can put me on ignore like a lot of other people and get by on lots of faith and hopium - it's funny when I now see people getting hot over rumors the police being trained on the interpretation that I (and others) said was the only way to read it given the Supreme Court's published rules of interpretation.