RI Non-Resident

Sorry, BCI is the Bureau of Criminal Investigation and as n1bsbri points out, it is the investigative unit of the attorney general. When you go, you'll get to sit there and watch all the old wise-guy fat ass cops in tacky 20-year-old suits and bad haircuts strut through the doors with a chip on their shoulder and a look in their face like they WANT you to say something derogative to them. It's pretty damn funny. When people say they can spot a plain clothes detective, this is what they are talking about.
 
I'm in RI a lot (GF), so I think this would make some sense getting it just in case. I have applied for my MA non-res because I work there/ here. I think I found the app for resident/ non-residents but it looks pretty old and copied slightly crooked. Can someone confirm this is it? I really need all that stuff, fingerprints, notorized, pictures, explanation, etc. No wonder I said screw it a few months ago [laugh]. I read something about passing a shooting test?

http://www.riag.state.ri.us/documents/forms/pistol_renewal_form.pdf

Why can't you just fill out a few things, mail it in, and get it a few weeks later... like in NH?? What a pain!
 
sweed said:
I'm in RI a lot (GF), so I think this would make some sense getting it just in case. I have applied for my MA non-res because I work there/ here. I think I found the app for resident/ non-residents but it looks pretty old and copied slightly crooked. Can someone confirm this is it? I really need all that stuff, fingerprints, notorized, pictures, explanation, etc. No wonder I said screw it a few months ago [laugh]. I read something about passing a shooting test?

http://www.riag.state.ri.us/documents/forms/pistol_renewal_form.pdf

Why can't you just fill out a few things, mail it in, and get it a few weeks later... like in NH?? What a pain!
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1. You need a specific reason to get approved

2. Any NRA instructor who has Army-L targets can give you the shooting test. I can handle it, but chances are, you can find someone much closer to you than Hopkinton, MA.
 
As a TX resident who travels the northeast a lot and has been thru the process I thought I would offer some advice to anyone considering apply for a non resident pistol permit from the AG BCI unit (I just received mine in early August):

1) Follow the application instructions EXACTLY as they are spelled out. Belief me when I say you will get red flagged or rejected (and then will have to appeal...you will get a letter stating the denial) on your application if you don't (it happen to me and it took some slick talk by well know and respected RI/MA gun rights attorney Keith Langer to get the RI AG BCI to get approval).
2) Make sure you get a high up city official where you live to sign your application (i.e. Mayor, City Administrator, Police Chief, Sheriff, etc.). There is a section on the application that asks for this.
3) Make sure your three references write (unique) letters vouching for you (and make sure they are notarized).
4) Make sure to include all the documentation required (forms of ID's & other state licenses you own).
5) Make sure to compose a DETAILED letter of reason stating your need for the pistol permit. I went the C&R route since I am an FFL 03 licensed gun collector (plus the RI State Supreme Court deemed it a valid reason). Be prepared to appeal your application if initially denied to defend your case in person at the BCI (with Deputy Chief Bob Chin). I had Keith Langer go to bat for me at my appeal hearing and he won the day for me!
6) Part of the application process involves the RI AG BCI contacting your Police Chief where you live to do a "background check". They don't tell applicants this is part of the process, and you will only find out they did this if you contact the BCI to find out the status of your application and they say its been delayed. Do yourself a favor...prior to sending in your application, make sure to contact your local Police Chief office to let them know the RI AG BCI will be contacting them for this...the sooner they signed off the request from the BCI, the smoother the application processing will go!
7) For the live fire exercise, I recommend using a local NRA instructor who is well versed in RI gun laws. Keep in mind you have to shoot 30 rounds with a 65% score or better at 25 yards on an ARMY-L target , which is not easy (I recommend from the seated position)! I used Daria Bruno in Providence, who is very well respected in the RI/MA gun community and was great to work with!
8) Keep in mind, once you get approval by mail (probably after an in person appeal hearing) you still need to pickup your license at the RI AG BCI in person (get thumb printed for the license and pay your $40...check or money order only).

GOOD LUCK!
 
txhusker said:
As a TX resident who travels the northeast a lot and has been thru the process I thought I would offer some advice to anyone considering apply for a non resident pistol permit from the AG BCI unit (I just received mine in early August):
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Congratulations. You have a little time to save your money up to hire the lawyer again 4 years from now to get your renewal. Good luck with that.

I would argue that the C&R license is irrelevant to AG permits, since Justice Williams was referring to the town permits, and the "proper reason" language. But if it worked for you, so much the better. I think Langer, Esq probably had more to do with it.
 
Thanks for the post txhusker!

Wow, it really is tough in RI. I would like to get RI. My club is right on the border, I live two towns from the border, have a sister-in-law that lives in RI, whom I visit often as I take care of her place for her. Also have a C&R. Have CC carry licenses in MA, CT, NH, ME, FL, Uath. But not sure I can demonstrate "need" to satisfy RI. I also hate to have a denial on my record, and would hate to have to hire an attorney. Not sure if it is worth it......
 
....which is not easy...
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You were doing pretty well until this part.

The Army-L target is HUGE and the shooting test is incredibly easy, unless you take it with a J frame, pocket 380 or similar.

I would suggest numbering each page/attachment and adding a table of contents. The RI AG initially denied my renewal because some things I really thought I included were missing. I expect it was a good faith error on someone's part (mine or the AGs office), but it was more correspondence to straighten it out.

If you are missing something they will not tell you unless you ask - you'll just get a form letter stating you do not meet the criteria for issuance at this time, try again later if your situation changes.
 
Yep. I have seen people qualify with red dot Bullseye gun. Nothing in the law about that either. Scoring 195 out of 300 on Army L with the caliber you intend to carry should be no problem. Just an elementary proficiency with the firearm. Not that much of a hoop, no?
 
Sergeis64 said:
Yep. I have seen people qualify with red dot Bullseye gun. Nothing in the law about that either. Scoring 195 out of 300 on Army L with the caliber you intend to carry should be no problem. Just an elementary proficiency with the firearm. Not that much of a hoop, no?
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To be honest, I think it's a bullshit requirement that doesn't apply in the least to the practice of concealed carrying.

Besides, where in the RI Constitution Sec 22 or the Bill of Rights does it say I need to pass a proficiency exam to bear arms?
 
Well, it is there in the law, non the less, and we have to abide by it, until the law is changed. Mass requires NRA class with live fire training. I am willing to help out people and have some practice runs at the Army L, but no "props" please. Mind you- Crimson trace should be fine. Just when the conversation starts with "seated position" and possibly some hand rests- defeats the purpose. No?
 
You are probably correct about Keith Langer being a big influence on the BCI decision. But I also don't want to drive around RI simply because I made a purchase at a CT gun show and am on my way back to Boston.
 
You make an excellent point Rob on how to fill out the application! I got nailed for not having substantially different letters of reference the first go around (plus they wanted a CYA on the C&R reason, which Keith Langer gave them).

As far a the target range and the Army-L target, if you aren't accustomed to shooting from that range in can be a little intimidating. Having said that, I shot 90%! [grin]
 
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Actually, shooting seated had nothing to do with the distance, Sergeis64. I could have shot standing and felt just fine that far away from the Army-L target. I was however, using a gun provided by my NRA instructor (a beautiful Wilson Combat 1911 .45) that was considerably bigger and heavier than I normally use to train with at my local range, so it felt more comfortable at a bench rest position (I wanted to qualify with as big of caliber as possible). My normal carry is a Glock 23 which is much smaller, lighter and only a .40. But again, you have to play the game that the RI AG BCI puts in front of applicants about qualifying and that means with the biggest possible caliber you can and in any stance you can (BTW...I have a friend that is wheel chair bound and has his conceal carry...he can only shoot at the range from the bench rest).

What I find truly ironic, is that you would never fire a round from that distance in a threat situation because RI law REQUIRES a duty to retreat anyway!
 
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Actually, shooting seated had nothing to do with the distance, Sergeis64.
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When I give the RI test, I have a simple criteria for pass - could I truthfully testify that the individual met the required performance while following the procedures established in the RI statutes - no more, no less.
 
When I give the RI test, I have a simple criteria for pass - could I truthfully testify that the individual met the required performance while following the procedures established in the RI statutes - no more, no less.
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The arbitrary and most ridiculous procedures established by a bunch of whining assh@les in Providence? Shame on you.
 
I do completely agree with Rob. That is what was expected of me when I did my qualification, that is what I expect from people I qualify. There are people issuing MA Basic pistol certificates without even having taught the class. I am not one of them. As I stated above I will help and give instruction to anybody who needs it, free of charge. But I will ask people to follow same criteria as Rob stated.
 
Swamp_Yankee said:
The arbitrary and most ridiculous procedures established by a bunch of whining assh@les in Providence? Shame on you.
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I am referring to the range test. My other options are:

- Refuse to give the test out of principle
- Lie and sign applications for persons who have not passed the test
- Impose my own stricter requirements for a signature

Which course of action do you feel brings less shame?
 
txhusker said:
Actually, shooting seated had nothing to do with the distance, Sergeis64. I could have shot standing and felt just fine that far away from the Army-L target. I was however, using a gun provided by my NRA instructor (a beautiful Wilson Combat 1911 .45) that was considerably bigger and heavier than I normally use to train with at my local range, so it felt more comfortable at a bench rest position (I wanted to qualify with as big of caliber as possible). My normal carry is a Glock 23 which is much smaller, lighter and only a .40. But again, you have to play the game that the RI AG BCI puts in front of applicants about qualifying and that means with the biggest possible caliber you can and in any stance you can (BTW...I have a friend that is wheel chair bound and has his conceal carry...he can only shoot at the range from the bench rest).

What I find truly ironic, is that you would never fire a round from that distance in a threat situation because RI law REQUIRES a duty to retreat anyway!
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There is no duty to retreat in Rhode Island.
 
http://webserver.rilin.state.ri.us/Statutes/TITLE11/11-8/11-8-8.HTM

TITLE 11
Criminal Offenses

CHAPTER 11-8
Burglary and Breaking and Entering

SECTION 11-8-8


***§ 11-8-8**Injury or death – Defense. –*In the event that any person shall die or shall sustain a personal injury in any way or for any cause while in the commission of any criminal offense enumerated in §§ 11-8-2 – 11-8-6, it shall be rebuttably presumed as a matter of law in any civil or criminal proceeding that the owner, tenant, or occupier of the place where the offense was committed acted by reasonable means in self-defense and in the reasonable belief that the person engaged in the criminal offense was about to inflict great bodily harm or death upon that person or any other individual lawfully in the place where the criminal offense was committed. There shall be no duty on the part of an owner, tenant, or occupier to retreat from any person engaged in the commission of any criminal offense enumerated in §§ 11-8-2 – 11-8-6.*

History of Section.
(P.L. 1976, ch. 216, § 1; P.L. 1977, ch. 17, § 1; P.L. 1984, ch. 212, § 1.)
 
Sergeis64 said:
I do completely agree with Rob. That is what was expected of me when I did my qualification, that is what I expect from people I qualify. There are people issuing MA Basic pistol certificates without even having taught the class. I am not one of them. As I stated above I will help and give instruction to anybody who needs it, free of charge. But I will ask people to follow same criteria as Rob stated.
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But you actually require more than the statute states by not allowing seated position. The statute does not specify the shooting position, so there is an option.
 
n1bsbri said:
But you actually require more than the statute states by not allowing seated position. The statute does not specify the shooting position, so there is an option.
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Which is interesting because when I took it I was told that you needed to be standing unsupported and that's how I qualified.
 
scubadive.ri said:
Which is interesting because when I took it I was told that you needed to be standing unsupported and that's how I qualified.
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So did I, and in fact I never thought about seated position until the poster in this thread mentioned it. I don't see any reason seated position is NOT allowed in the statute.
 
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WHY would it be specifically allowed in the statute? By same token one can argue that they have every right to shoot the test seated, with bench rest, scoped gun with red dot.Do we have to write statute to every minute detail or common sense prevail? In any case, conversation is becoming pointless. I am not forcing anybody to qualify with me- plenty others. Person that provided Wilson Combat 1911 to the above-mentioned applicant is ten times better instructor and shooter than me.
 
WHY would it be specifically allowed in the statute? By same token one can argue that they have every right to shoot the test seated, with bench rest, scoped gun with red dot.Do we have to write statute to every minute detail or common sense prevail? In any case, conversation is becoming pointless. I am not forcing anybody to qualify with me- plenty others. Person that provided Wilson Combat 1911 to the above-mentioned applicant is ten times better instructor and shooter than me.
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Yes. If it is not in statute, it is not the law. The law is not common sense. It is the law. If it is not in the law, it is legal. That's how laws work. You seem to have a very poor understanding of jurisprudence and I for one would never touch you as an instructor. You sound like a statist if I ever met one…
 

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