Scope leveling

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peterk123

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I don't know how many articles I've read about this and I still don't get it. Leveling to the earth while shooting. I don't get it.

To me, the scope needs to be leveled to the gun. Otherwise it will be canted and the bullet will always be to the right or the left of the target. You can still sight it at a 100, and it will be fine, but I think the cant becomes an issue as you shoot further.

But supposedly this cant doesn't matter if when shooting you are level to the earth. Huh? I just can't comprehend this concept. How are there two forms of level? Help
 
Ignoring the physics of the rotating projectile:

If you had a scope offset at 45 degrees, so that the reticle is level to the earth in that position, and you held the rifle with the same cant that you zeroed it with, with the scope in that level position, you’d be able to compensate for drop properly. But if the scope isn’t level, its “predicting” where the bullet will drop inaccurately because the bullet is going to drop out of the bore the same way regardless of the angle of your rifle cant.
 
peterk123 said:
I don't know how many articles I've read about this and I still don't get it. Leveling to the earth while shooting. I don't get it.

To me, the scope needs to be leveled to the gun. Otherwise it will be canted and the bullet will always be to the right or the left of the target. You can still sight it at a 100, and it will be fine, but I think the cant becomes an issue as you shoot further.

But supposedly this cant doesn't matter if when shooting you are level to the earth. Huh? I just can't comprehend this concept. How are there two forms of level? Help
Click to expand...
The longer the distance the more important it becomes. I have many scope and base shims so I have always leveled my scopes just because of why not. I have had some rifle/scope combos years ago that needed almost full use of adjustment to sight it in due to the scope not being level, quirky for some reason.
 
peterk123 said:
I don't know how many articles I've read about this and I still don't get it. Leveling to the earth while shooting. I don't get it.

To me, the scope needs to be leveled to the gun. Otherwise it will be canted and the bullet will always be to the right or the left of the target. You can still sight it at a 100, and it will be fine, but I think the cant becomes an issue as you shoot further.

But supposedly this cant doesn't matter if when shooting you are level to the earth. Huh? I just can't comprehend this concept. How are there two forms of level? Help
Click to expand...

Leveling to the earth is way more important than leveling to the gun.

Some people level the scope with the rifle slightly canted as it’s just their natural position with that rifle. But, that is a very small portion of people.


View: https://youtube.com/watch?v=eCoHG23TQcY


Most should try to level the scope to both the rifle and the earth.

thescienceofaccuracy.com

#90 - AP CH8: Leveling Your Sights - The Science of Accuracy

thescienceofaccuracy.com thescienceofaccuracy.com

IMG_4045.jpeg
 
peterk123 said:
So if my crosshair is level to the earth (which I assume means level, as in I'm holding my four foot level at level in the air), even though the barrel is offset, that difference doesn't matter, as long as I sighted it that way?
Click to expand...
I have always interpreted it to be level with the barrel.
 
You want the scope centered over the bore of the rifle, and the reticle of the scope to be level. If not, the string of shots will not be vertically aligned as you vary distance to target.

Minute of vital zone? You probably wouldn't notice much with a flat shooting round at less than extreme distance.
 
I don't understand why scope rings and scopes don't have a rigid locking mechanism to prevent canting. It's all clamping to a smooth surface which is prone to grip loss from recoil.
 
peterk123 said:
To me, the scope needs to be leveled to the gun.
Click to expand...
put scope into rings, do not tight. apply rifle to the shoulder. align scope so the reticle is vertical while rifle sits confortable at your shoulder.

you align scope to your body, not to the gravitational pull of the planet earth.
 
I once shot a deer that was so close I had to move the gun around the deer to be sure of the kill zone........my guess is that leveling wasn't an issue with that one.......
 
HARRYM said:
I have always interpreted it to be level with the barrel.
Click to expand...

Level with gravity is way more important than level with the barrel. Watch the video I linked above.

And/or this:
View: https://youtube.com/watch?v=zSW9m8knn7A


peterk123 said:
So if my crosshair is level to the earth (which I assume means level, as in I'm holding my four foot level at level in the air), even though the barrel is offset, that difference doesn't matter, as long as I sighted it that way?
Click to expand...

Yup. You want your scope level with gravity. There is a non-linear affect on POI shift over distance if your scope is not level with gravity when you zero and shoot.

If you zero the rifle with it canted while the scope is level, all you’re doing is adding a very very tiny horizontal offset for your zero.

Say the rifle is canted three degrees and the scope mount normally put it 2.75” over bore. Also ensuring the scope is level to gravity of course. This puts the optic 0.144” off to the side of the bore. That’s an angular difference at 100 yards of only 0.0022918 degrees. At 1,000 yards, that is a lateral/windage offset of only 1.44”. Essentially, whatever the horizontal separation is between the scope center and the rifle bore due to the rifle can’t, multiply it by 10 and you get the 1k yard horizontal POI shift. If you zero at 100 yards.

Now, if you accidentally had a 3 degree cant in your optic when shooting out at 1000 yards, you could be off 25”

So yeah, ensuring your scope is level to gravity is way more important than making sure it is level to the rifle.
 
paul73 said:
put scope into rings, do not tight. apply rifle to the shoulder. align scope so the reticle is vertical while rifle sits confortable at your shoulder.

you align scope to your body, not to the gravitational pull of the planet earth.
Click to expand...

Oh no no no. You align the rifle to your body if you want. Always align the scope to gravity.
 
As @Broc Tuah stated, I'll set up the rifle or upper level to the earth then same for the scope. Some rings can be a little tricky to torque down (use a in lbs torque wrench) because the scope will move when you tighten.

It's a simple as this: You want your elevation to change your elevation, and only your elevation. If your scope is canted you will adjust both the elevation and the windage relative to the earth. An extreme example would be a scope that is canted 45 degrees. You will more or less equally adjust your elevation and windage with only the elevation knob. When you adjust each axis you want to leave the other alone, thus the need to have the scope level.
 
Anyone that hunts at New England deer distances should not even care about this.

Level the gun then...level the bases...then level the scope in the bases. Clamp to torque and check level. Done.

Past 600 yards....maybe all this earth shit matters....not really sure. But I can tell you at 300 yards or less...it doesn't.

If your shooting your gun out past 600 yards all the time, Im sure you can figure it out it matters by practice.
 
peterk123 said:
So if my crosshair is level to the earth (which I assume means level, as in I'm holding my four foot level at level in the air), even though the barrel is offset, that difference doesn't matter, as long as I sighted it that way?
Click to expand...
If the barrel is canted but the sight is above the barrel and the sight, barrel, and earth are in a straight line, yes. The barrel is round. There’s no real way to cant it. You’re canting the rifle around the barrel. But the bullet falls out of the barrel the same way regardless of how you turn the barrel. So if your sight is level and above the bore with the earth in a direct line below the sight and bore, then the rifle can be canted.
 
paul73 said:
put scope into rings, do not tight. apply rifle to the shoulder. align scope so the reticle is vertical while rifle sits confortable at your shoulder.

you align scope to your body, not to the gravitational pull of the planet earth.
Click to expand...

YEEES! ... I was waiting for this.

How do you guarantee you will always hold the rifle at the same angle?
 
Sunny said:
I don't understand why scope rings and scopes don't have a rigid locking mechanism to prevent canting. It's all clamping to a smooth surface which is prone to grip loss from recoil.
Click to expand...

Properly tightened rings don't loose grip.

My guess is, the scope and rings being round, having something set up to prevent canting when mounting would be a PITA and not worth it. You might end up with something that doesn't contact the scope all the way around.

Leveling a scope is easy enough.
 
Broc Tuah said:
I level the rifle on a rest.
I place the scope on the rifle.
I make sure it is level.
Done.

Easy.

Is that called leveling to the Earth? The moon? The rifle?

What is going on?
Click to expand...

Well. Are we leveling to a flat earth or are we assuming if I lean to take a shot, the curvature of a round earth will add to any errors?

Hmmmm….?
 
I must have a dozen types of scope levels. I used to think it was so important, then I realized that I suck when shooting with a scope, so it really doesn't matter all that much until I learn how to shoot with a rifle/scope combo.

Then, I gave up trying to level the rifle and decided that as long as the scope was level with the rail or mount I was attaching it to, then that was probably the best I could do. So I found this very simple leveling tool and it's been a blessing ever since.

toughtacticaltools.com

Scope Mounting Leveler

Easy to use, simply insert the leveler between the bottom turret and base plate will level the reticle precisely Maximum clearance between bottom turret and gun stock is 1.1'' Two levelers supplied, small one can be embeded into the larger one to save storage Right angle mark on both levelers to...
toughtacticaltools.com toughtacticaltools.com

I don't know if it's level with the earth, or anything else, but this simple tool makes it very easy to mount a scope, and makes sure it's level with the rail or mount I'm attaching it to. This is at least plenty good enough until I learn to become a better shot.
 
PappyM3 said:
Leveling to the earth is way more important than leveling to the gun.

Some people level the scope with the rifle slightly canted as it’s just their natural position with that rifle. But, that is a very small portion of people.


View: https://youtube.com/watch?v=eCoHG23TQcY


Most should try to level the scope to both the rifle and the earth.

thescienceofaccuracy.com

#90 - AP CH8: Leveling Your Sights - The Science of Accuracy

thescienceofaccuracy.com thescienceofaccuracy.com

View attachment 965413
Click to expand...

Interesting. I thought a canted rifle would exaggerate things further out. I was wrong. It's taking me a minute but it is starting to make sense. Thanks for the vid.

Out in the field when hunting, I focus on making sure my vertical is straight up and down. While topography can play some tricks, I can usually figure it out. That, and I'm not trying to kill an animal 800 yards away.
 
I always level to the gun.

That will always be a constant.

My body position and rifle cant will shift depending on standing, sitting, prone or off a bench. All will change…

At least I know if I do my part, the rifle(s) will be consistent.
 
chris_1001 said:
I always level to the gun.

That will always be a constant.

My body position and rifle cant will shift depending on standing, sitting, prone or off a bench. All will change…

At least I know if I do my part, the rifle(s) will be consistent.
Click to expand...

If you change the cant of your scope at different shooting positions, you should know how that will affect POI at the distances you’re shooting. With Service Rifle/Highpower, guys will have a different 200 yard zero for both the standing and sitting stages.
 

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