ShotShow 2024

drgrant said:
My point is in modern production firearms should be able to handle 9 mm plus P without much of an issue. In reality most guns can take a lot more than that even. I don't know what it actually takes to blow up a Luger but I bet a Luger is still stronger than the f***ing DB9. 🤣
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I agree on that, but it's like older J frames that aren't +P rated it's not smart to shoot +P in them. Not defending DB for not making a +P rated 9mm, but if they don't want to and tell people not to shoot +P in it and people do, they deserve their Darwin award.

Of course this is coming from a guy who shoots .32 Long wadcutters in a .32 S&W short H&R and hot rods .38 Special cuz the brass is free and shoot in .357's.
 
T-Unit said:
I agree on that, but it's like older J frames that aren't +P rated it's not smart to shoot +P in them. Not defending DB for not making a +P rated 9mm, but if they don't want to and tell people not to shoot +P in it and people do, they deserve their Darwin award.
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I think a company that builds a 9mm gun today that won’t take 9mm +P also deserves a Darwin award — it’s moronically stupid.
 
40 Creedmoor fan said:
I think the days of costly Staccatos are numbered. They have to start lowering the price, or they will lose. Thanks to Springfield Prodigy, $3000 is no longer the price point of a reliable 2011 derivatives
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They will come out with a line tumblers or coolers for the #Staccatolifestyle
 
I don't believe that any gun which is safe with 9mm will have catastrophic failures with 9mm +P. The pressure difference between these cartridges is only 10%, and guns have to have a much wider safety margin than that to be anywhere close to safe.

It is certainly true that 9mm +P puts greater wear on the gun. So issues like small parts breakage, or the whole gun loosening up, can happen much quicker. And I understand companies not wanting to warranty this wear in low end guns that weren't designed for it, and putting "no +P" in the manual.

But when we see catastrophic failure in a pistol, I'm pretty sure that was caused by gross manufacturing defects and lack of quality control, not by a round or two of +P ammo. This is not like if someone hotrods 45 Colt and then loads a 35K PSI round into a gun designed for 16K PSI. That can blow things up, but it is a whole different situation.
 
40 Creedmoor fan said:
I think the days of costly Staccatos are numbered. They have to start lowering the price, or they will lose. Thanks to Springfield Prodigy, $3000 is no longer the price point of a reliable 2011 derivatives
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Eh, not so sure. They don’t need to be entry level 2011s. There are plenty of “2011”s that cost $5k+ too.

There is a wide spectrum. And Stacatto will always be the original. I would say that Springfield may take some of Stacatto’s LE business with individual officer purchases, but I hear Stacatto gives a significant LE discount. So, who knows.
 
40 Creedmoor fan said:
I think the days of costly Staccatos are numbered. They have to start lowering the price, or they will lose. Thanks to Springfield Prodigy, $3000 is no longer the price point of a reliable 2011 derivatives
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Reliable is only one aspect. Any gun can be reliable to the averahe shooter that flwsnt shoot sh*t, even a $400 gun.

But, can the Springfield last over 30K rounds?

A lot of people confuse these things, they think a few hundred rounds, maybe a couple of thousand rounds without issues and the gun is great. We are at a point where any gun today can do that (except for maybe a handful of pieces of sh*t).

The Porsche days are numbered, there are plenty of cars for under $30K. Does that make any sense?... no.
 
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Broc said:
Reliable is only one aspect. Any gun can be reliable to the averahe shooter that flwsnt shoot sh*t, even a $400 gun.

But, can the Springfield last over 30K rounds?

A lot of people confuse these things, they think a few hundred rounds, maybe a couple of thousand rounds without issues and the gun is great. We are at a point where any gun today can do that (except for maybe a handful of pieces of sh*t).

The Porsche days are numbered, there are plenty of cars for under $30K. Does that make any sense?... no.
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But can Staccato...There was a reason they need to be rebranded and leave the competitive shooting world.
 
Supermoto said:
But can Staccato...There was a reason they need to be rebranded and leave the competitive shooting world.
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I don't know, I don't shoot Staccatos.
But I read these type of comparisons all the time.

Maybe one of our Staccato experts can let us know.
 
I've seen these @ Cape Gun Works but in 9mm. I suppose 45ACP caliber with a bunch of 8rd mags is something folks consider, but something tells me, they should have gone with a 2011 pattern...
 
drgrant said:
Further, 5.7 is still just a novelty, even if it sells better than other niche cartridges it's still statistically irrelevant in an overall picture of gun sales. 5.7 is "i buy a gun a month and i have a grand in my pocket this month and no gun assigned, ill buy a 5.7!!!! " That's not a reliable, large base.
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I feel targeted lol. This is literally how I got my Ruger 5.7
 
drgrant said:
5.7 is "i buy a gun a month and i have a grand in my pocket this month and no gun assigned, ill buy a 5.7!!!!"
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[laugh]
mcf84check said:
I feel targeted lol. This is literally how I got my Ruger 5.7
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LOL!!! :) I'm not exactly a member of the "one gun a month" club anymore since my collecting activity has declined with age... but I know that feeling of gun budget money burning a hole in my pocket on a "dry" month when there is no really good choice on the radar. It's figure out an alternative choice that isn't on the Want List (a 5.7 maybe?) or put that money back in the sock drawer to wait for a better choice to come along. :(

I'm kind of in that predicament right now. What makes it doubly tough is the coming crazy legislation. It's a case of buy it now or you may never get the opportunity to do so ever again. :mad:
 
EJFudd said:
[laugh]

LOL!!! :) I'm not exactly a member of the "one gun a month" club anymore since my collecting activity has declined with age... but I know that feeling of gun budget money burning a hole in my pocket on a "dry" month when there is no really good choice on the radar. It's figure out an alternative choice that isn't on the Want List (a 5.7 maybe?) or put that money back in the sock drawer to wait for a better choice to come along. :(

I'm kind of in that predicament right now. What makes it doubly tough is the coming crazy legislation. It's a case of buy it now or you may never get the opportunity to do so ever again. :mad:
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Dump the money now. You don't even need to dump it on a complete rifle or handgun.
 
drgrant said:
It's a dead cartridge because it's a dumb idea in a space mostly occupied by 9mm. Even if it held 25, nobody gives a shit. That's still too big of a gap to cross to switch a caliber.

Further, 5.7 is still just a novelty, even if it sells better than other niche cartridges it's still statistically irrelevant in an overall picture of gun sales. 5.7 is "i buy a gun a month and i have a grand in my pocket this month and no gun assigned, ill buy a 5.7!!!! " That's not a reliable, large base.

Go sell some guns for awhile and you'll soon learn nearly everything you previously believed about the US handgun market is completely wrong.
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Enlighten us then
 

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