So what is the answer?

The point is that you can't compare physical security requirements in Israel to physical security requirements in the US.

Maybe not on a point by point basis, but some of the key components have worked. Look at Nashville. The shooter went to a school with less security over the one that had more security. That will happen over and over again until all schools have proper security.
 
Maybe not on a point by point basis, but some of the key components have worked. Look at Nashville. The shooter went to a school with less security over the one that had more security. That will happen over and over again until all schools have proper security.

And once the schools have this mythical absolute security the nutjobs who want to kill kids will just give up?
 
The point is that you can't compare physical security requirements in Israel to physical security requirements in the US.
why not? well, ok, fine. not then not.

all this is not going to be resolved, of course, and is mostly futile. all the intolerance, all the pundits, all the understanding that 'live and let live' really means 'you have to live like me or else' - it is all stupid.

but an armed soldier at the school or mall entrance works. it just does. we have stupid guard already that consumes trillions. and it can be used right away right now.
 
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We're talking about attacks on schools. Assuming you're referring to the left, you really believe that the left wants to kill random kids for being... kids? Americans?

I'm not trying to call out anyone who needs mental health. Anyone who needs it should get it. But when that person starts talking about his/her dark thoughts on killing people or that a mass shooting is OK, then i think that person shouldn't have access to a gun. They are one step away from fulfilling those thoughts. As I said originally, this thinking is rife with abuse potential but at some point I think there needs to be a link between mental health and guns.
 
why not? well, ok, fine. not then not.

all this is not going to be resolved, of course, and is mostly futile. all the intolerance, all the pundits, all the understanding that 'live and let live' really means 'you have to live like me or else' - it is all stupid.

but an armed soldier in the school or mall entrance works. it just does. we have stupid guard already that consumes trillions. and it can be used right away right now.

That's a good point actually. Why not just permanently station national guard soldiers at every school. Make all the kids and all visitors go through metal detectors and bag screenings before entering. Stick a soldier with a rifle on every school bus. Let's lock this shit all the way down, right?
 
And once the schools have this mythical absolute security the nutjobs who want to kill kids will just give up?

Nope, but they will look at other targets. No stopping it. This is sad to say but I'd rather see the Louisville scenario over the Nashville scenario any day. It's sad, but that's the reality
 
I'm not trying to call out anyone who needs mental health. Anyone who needs it should get it. But when that person starts talking about his/her dark thoughts on killing people or that a mass shooting is OK, then i think that person shouldn't have access to a gun. They are one step away from fulfilling those thoughts. As I said originally, this thinking is rife with abuse potential but at some point I think there needs to be a link between mental health and guns.

You just took guns out of the hands of hundreds on NES, based on their posts alone.
 
Let’s be honest - no one gives a wet sh*t about “mass shootings”. Mass shootings are only celebrated in the media and by our ruling class are when they have a high enough profile, i.e. “whypipo and children”.

The stats on Chicago from Jan 1 to Apr 11 2023: 142 killed, 493 wounded. —> and since there is no hue & cry about this urban warzone, you’ll forgive me if I choose not to clutch my pearls and recline on the fainting couch while crying “something needs to be done”
About the urban shitholes? Something DOES need to be done.

giphy.gif


THEY are the reason the United States is swirling the bowl presently. They're the source of the electoral fraud-a-rama. They bring nothing to the party but their gripes and their appetites.
 
That's a good point actually. Why not just permanently station national guard soldiers at every school. Make all the kids and all visitors go through metal detectors and bag screenings before entering. Stick a soldier with a rifle on every school bus. Let's lock this shit all the way down, right?

How about we close all 750 military bases in 80 countries and bring those people home to protect us?
 
You just took guns out of the hands of hundreds on NES, based on their posts alone.

Ha! Not disagree with you there. Look, I'm the last person who wants to see someone lose their guns. Though out of the options on the table I see the link with Mental Health as a possible viable way forward. The rest is just feel good work for the left to achieve their objective.
 
Ha! Not disagree with you there. Look, I'm the last person who wants to see someone lose their guns. Though out of the options on the table I see the link with Mental Health as a possible viable way forward. The rest is just feel good work for the left to achieve their objective.

I think the problem with focusing on mental health is that it's semi-subjective, and a moving target (definition-wise) at best. For example, how many sitting senators would argue that supporting Trump is evidence that someone is too unhinged to own a gun?
 
I think the problem with focusing on mental health is that it's semi-subjective, and a moving target (definition-wise) at best. For example, how many sitting senators would argue that supporting Trump is evidence that someone is too unhinged to own a gun?

And there lies the Abuse I'm talking about. Though I wouldn't feel very bad if a Congressional staffer went postal and started taking out sitting Congressmen and Senators.
 
Mass shootings in the US have been predominantly at schools.
Let's be scientists, and define terms.
By the FBI definition of 3 (or 4) or more victims, this is flatly untrue.
By the commonly accepted definition of "spree killing" it's still only going to get you nearly there. Churches, malls, etc. are similarly common.

What definition do you use for the term "mass shooting" that places them "predominantly at schools"?

We can either bury our heads in the sand with reasons we shouldn't do something about it or we actually do something about it. Sure percentage wise the probability is very low as shooting will happen at any particular school.
No. The probability of being a victim of a spree shooting is vanishingly small. Like less than 200 individuals per year across the US, small. Statistically, this is definitional noise.

But it makes good TV. As @drgrant likes to say, the memetic value of a handful of dead, suburban, white kids remains quite high.

Surely you know that most minors whose deaths involve firearms live in cities, are poor, and black or brown. Most often, it's one or two at a time, but their group activities are most of what contributes to the "mass shooting" stats. And, since most cities are awash with schools, they're usually "within [x] miles" of one, and get counted as "school violence" as well.

But the end result of one goes beyond measure. We either come up with a realistic way to handle it or we get more useless gun control that will not stop it.
Here's an idea, start with:
SSI Final Report - Ch. V said:
Taken together, the findings from the Safe School Initiative suggest that some future attacks may be preventable. Most incidents of targeted school violence were thought out and planned in advance. The attackers’ behavior suggested that they wer e planning or preparing for an attack. Prior to most incidents, the attackers’ peers knew the attack was to occur. And most attackers were not "invisible," but already were of concern to people in their lives.
In light of these findings, the use of a threat assessment approach may be a promising strategy for preventing a school-based attack. Educators, law enforcement officials and others with public safety responsibilities may be able to prevent some incidents of targeted school violence if they know what information to look for and what to do with such information when it is found. In sum, these officials may benefit from focusing their efforts on formulating strategies for preventing these attacks in two principal areas:
  • developing the capacity to pick up on and evaluate available or knowable information that might indicate that there is a risk of a targeted school attack; and,
  • employing the results of these risk evaluations or "threat assessments" in developing strategies to prevent potential school attacks from occurring.

What choice would you make if you had a kid in school. Doing nothing, as you seem to suggest above, isn't an option.
Something must be done.
This is something.
This must be done.
 
I'm not trying to call out anyone who needs mental health. Anyone who needs it should get it. But when that person starts talking about his/her dark thoughts on killing people or that a mass shooting is OK, then i think that person shouldn't have access to a gun. They are one step away from fulfilling those thoughts. As I said originally, this thinking is rife with abuse potential but at some point I think there needs to be a link between mental health and guns.

And there lies the Abuse I'm talking about. Though I wouldn't feel very bad if a Congressional staffer went postal and started taking out sitting Congressmen and Senators.

The people at the tops of those companies need to be murdered. Their whole bloodlines wiped out.

See? [smile]
 
I would add:
#3 Restore families in America. Kids whose two parents are involved in their lives don't grow up to become mass shooters.
Let's be specific. Mothers and fathers, not just two parents. Boys especially need fathers and by father I mean biological males. Everything else is a corruption of the core family parental unit.
 
I don't disagree with you, but at the same time this is the answer that keeps kicking this can down the street and nothing changes. If we allow it to be kicked the answer will inevitably be another AWB or a complete ban on Semi Autos. Not the "answer" we want. But until somebody take a serious, non gun ban, stab at trying to find answers then I think we all know where this ends up.

The only solutions that will be allowed are ones that restrict your rights. The people in power aren’t interested in preventing the problem you are describing. They’re only interested in taking away the threat to them. And that threat is you. Kicking the can over to the government for a solution is not an option.

I don’t have the solution. But giving authority to those with bad intentions isnt a solution either.
 
I don’t have the solution. But giving authority to those with bad intentions isnt a solution either

Our "leaders" have proven time and again that they cannot be trusted. That is why I'm sure this can will get kicked down the road for a good amount of time to come. The problem I see is that the inevitable wrong choice is going to be made. Just a matter of time. I'd wager that an AWB II is in our not to distant future.
 
Big diff between wanting to murder innocent people and wanting to murder the unelected people who rule us who have no accountability and create most of the problems in the world for their own profit.

He didn't say anything about whether it was justified or not, though again whether or not something like this is justifiable and appropriate is subjective. Giving government the ability to pull rights from people for subjective reasons is a bad idea.
 
Our "leaders" have proven time and again that they cannot be trusted. That is why I'm sure this can will get kicked down the road for a good amount of time to come. The problem I see is that the inevitable wrong choice is going to be made. Just a matter of time. I'd wager that an AWB II is in our not to distant future.
I think there will be a disarmament attempt by force in our future. Not just an AWB like we’ve seen in the past. And I think I’m general, the attempt will be successful on their part. I don’t think there will be much resistance.
 
Few things

Victimization culture enabling every mentally unstable person to be validated instead of ostracized

SSRIs and ADD drugs mess your brain up. They also usually interact badly with certain recreational drugs. People stop taking their meds so they can do cocaine/meth/other serotonin uptake effecting drugs. Coming off your meds makes you nuts. Add stimulant psychosis and you have the kind of person it takes 10 cops to get into a police car.

Clown world. Lashing out at innocents is disgusting but I see this as a pretty much natural reaction to clown world. They make this fake sould crushing world where you can't express yourself freely or be the person you want to be, you have to be a consumerist tax slave instead. We are so far removed from what I see as a natural state for humans it's surprising this doesn't happen more.

Covid broke everyone's back. We won't realize how bad it was until 10 years from now. 25% of small business gone. Record inflation. Record unemployment. Record repossessions. Average salary:Cost of living has never been poorer. The media and big tech actively trying to cancel white people. Importing millions of third worlders every year driving the cost up of everything while using DEI to make sure that only women and brown people get jobs.

For all we know for example the louisville bank shooter had a legit gripe with the bank. Not that I condone killing innocents, but banks are so inherently evil that I wouldn't be surprised if there was a justification for that action that we'll never learn about.

No access to mental health care. Try getting an appointment with a shrink. You may be having a very bad time in life and you find out even with insurance it can take months to get a referral, appointment, and finally talk to someone. Furthermore, we have a situation where getting help can impact your freedom. After covid, there's no more reason to talk to doctors.

But OP's idea that we need to 'do something' screams karenism. OP should mind his own f***ing business and stay out of public if he's so afraid of his own shadow.
As you correctly point out the mental health system is broken and has been for a long time. Medication is certainly a main problem with current insane behavior.

Also, you point out that attempts to get help can result in losing your freedom. 100% true. A simple sarcastic "I just want to kill that guy he makes me so mad!" is a one way ticket to 72 hours in a looney bin. And if you don't go on your own accord you'll be forced by the state and then you'll be a prohibited person, a de facto felon at that point.

Modern "mental health" seems to be mostly based around chemical restraints (medication) and telling people to shut the f*** up or they are going to jail. And that's why we are where we are now.
 
We're talking about attacks on schools. Assuming you're referring to the left, you really believe that the left wants to kill random kids for being... kids? Americans?

The left doesn't want to kill random kids for being kids or American, however they will kill anyone including kids/Americans to further their agenda.

The left is acting out Saul Alinski's Rules for Radicals page by page. So yes. They want us dead.

This.
 
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