The Conference Committee has sent official language out - h.4885

[Ben Cartwright SASS]

dont we have a radio forum? says the guy who flunked his code test for the technical back in the day

Yes we do but we were doing a quick answer that ran on longer than expected.

Get your tech as the world is about to become "Independence Day" if Harris wins and we will only be able to communicate in an underground fashion, wink wink

 

[JDL]

dont we have a radio forum? says the guy who flunked his code test for the technical back in the day

Yes sorry for the hijack

 

[Ben Cartwright SASS]

 

[maltc]

I asked the AG for some clarification on the dates in the bill and the grandfathering provision. Recieved a response today.

"Thank you for reaching out to the community engagement division. Unfortunately, we cannot give legal advice on individual circumstances, but the new bill specifically exempts assault-style firearms lawfully possessed as of August 1, 2024. It would be expected that there will be a number of explainers coming out from various agencies before the law takes effect on October 23."

Honestly, I’m very surprised they even gave you that much… edit- redacted

 

[Picton]

Honestly, I’m very surprised they even gave you that much… Ask them if that means asw’s can have all the features considering they have been grandfathered in as asw’s…

Noooooope.

Better to ask forgiveness than permission. What they don't know won't hurt.

 

[drgrant]

Story I overheard today - guy is buying a sig spear. Apparently in MA dealer inventory. Dealer is going to neuter it and then transfer to buyer. Dealer says that he can sell it because it is/was in his inventory prior to 8/1. Wondering what those who have read the law think about this one.

Every dealer that isn't shit agrees with that interpretation. So there's that. Otherwise they wouldn't have brought in pallets of spears and other similar stuff.

 

[maltc]

Story I overheard today - guy is buying a sig spear. Apparently in MA dealer inventory. Dealer is going to neuter it and then transfer to buyer. Dealer says that he can sell it because it is/was in his inventory prior to 8/1. Wondering what those who have read the law think about this one.

OL isn’t transfering them at the moment, at least according to a phone call. Many others are. According to the law it needed to be lawfully posessed by an FFL or LTC holder prior to 8/1…. Not sure why some shops are not.

 

[pastera]

Every dealer that isn't shit agrees with that interpretation. So there's that. Otherwise they wouldn't have brought in pallets of spears and other similar stuff.

Concur
A plain reading says that while "copies and duplicates" are only exempted as copies and duplicates if they were registered before 7/20/16 the 8/1 possession by a LTC holder or dealer exempts all assault-style firearms (including the copies and duplicates)
The caveat is that lower courts will likely read into the two separate dates that the legislature intended to only exempt copies and duplicates prior to 7/16/20 and intended to band them from that date forward but allow all other assault style firearms up to the 8/1 date.
So until a court actually hears that argument, a dealer is free to transfer anything in stock on the 1st at the very least until oct 23

 

[Harry Christopher]

It would appear that there are in fact quite a few individuals who do not necessarily accept having their Constitutional Civil Rights abridged and they have chosen to do something about that unpleasant state of affaire.


August 5, 2024

NSSF Celebrates 5 Years of Over 1 Million Monthly Background Checks for Firearm Sales​

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WASHINGTON, D.C. — NSSF®, The Firearm Industry Trade Association, celebrates that July marks 60 consecutive months – or five years – of more than 1 million monthly NSSF-Adjusted FBI National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS) verifications for the sale of a firearm at retail. This milestone is demonstrative of Americans’ desire to lawfully exercise their Second Amendment rights to keep and bear arms for lawful purposes. The last time monthly background checks associated with the sale of a firearm at retail were below 1 million was July 2019, when 830, 579 background checks for firearm sales were recorded.

Since then, each month, the FBI’s National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS) has recorded over 1 million background checks associated with the sale of at least one firearm at retail. July 2024’s total was 1,06,790 – a 4 percent increase over the 1,023,903 background checks recorded in July 2023.

“This mile marker shows the enduring appeal by Americans from all walks of life to exercise their uniquely-American right to keep and bear arms,” said Joe Bartozzi, NSSF President and CEO. “These million-plus monthly background checks over the past five years represent the free expression of Second Amendment rights during tough and troubling times, including the COVID-19 pandemic when certain governors were shuttering gun stores and the Biden-Harris administration’s ‘zero-tolerance’ policy to revoke licenses to sell firearms. During this time, Americans who never previously considered lawful firearm ownership decided to become gun owners. We’re proud of our industry’s work to provide the means to exercise those rights to law-abiding citizens across the country.”

The five years of million-plus monthly background checks included record setting years for lawful firearm ownership. The month with the most background checks for firearm sales ever recorded was in March 2020, when 2.3 million background checks were completed. That year – 2020 – over 21 million background checks for the sale of a firearm had been completed by the year’s end. That shattered the previous annual record set in 2016 of 15.7 million completed background checks. During this five-year stretch of million-plus background checks each month, 86,410,889 FBI NICS background checks have been completed for the sale of at least one firearm at retail. NSSF is grateful for the diligence and ability of FBI NICS to meet the staggering demands year-over-year.

These figures are conservative. Actual retail sales of firearms are likely much higher. Twenty-four states currently have a qualified alternative permit, which under the Brady Act allows the permit-holder, who has undergone a background check to obtain the permit, to purchase a firearm from a licensed dealer without a separate additional background check for that transfer. The number of NICS checks in these states does not include these legal transfers based on qualifying permits and NSSF does not adjust for these transfers.

The adjusted NICS data were derived by subtracting out NICS purpose code permit checks and permit rechecks used by states for concealed carry permit application checks as well as checks on active concealed carry permit databases. NSSF started subtracting permit rechecks in February 2016.

Though not a direct correlation to firearms sales, the NSSF-adjusted NICS data provide an additional picture of current market conditions. In addition to other purposes, NICS is used to check transactions for sales or transfers of new or used firearms.

It should be noted that these statistics represent the number of firearm background checks initiated through the NICS. They do not represent the number of firearms sold or sales dollars. Multiple firearms may be purchased at the same time and at the same location with a single background check, as FBI NICS verifies that the purchaser is not prohibited from possessing a firearm, and not an actual check on the firearm itself. Based on varying state laws, local market conditions and purchase scenarios, a one-to-one correlation cannot be made between a firearm background check and a firearm sale.

 

[AFVet]

I'm not sure if I asked this already, but what is the plain language version of what and why some semi auto shotguns were banned,?

 

[MAJoe]

I'm not sure if I asked this already, but what is the plain language version of what and why some semi auto shotguns were banned,?

Why? Because guns are bad.

 

[Jenska22]

I'm not sure if I asked this already, but what is the plain language version of what and why some semi auto shotguns were banned,?

mommy said so

 

[Spartan65]

I'm not sure if I asked this already, but what is the plain language version of what and why some semi auto shotguns were banned,?

Because when they came for the AR’s the Fudds said

“I aint never had a need for em’ assault rifles”

When they came for the shotguns there was no one left to speak for the Fudds.

 

[not new guy]

F those fudds. As always.

 

[Harry Christopher]

Because when they came for the AR’s the Fudds said

“I anti never had a need for em’ assault rifles”

When they came for the shotguns there was no one left to speak for the Fudds.

It has never really mattered why a person has chosen to own firearms........hunting, target shooting or self defense of kith and kin are a few reasons that come readily to mind......the fact of the matter is that all these individuals have what is referred to as "skin in the game".

The "game" is active defense of their Constitution Civil Right to choose of their own volition whether or not they wish to employ firearms for whatever reason they think would be legally appropriate.

The so called Fudd community may look down their noses upon owners of AR, etc. style rifles but their disdain for those who have made that choice is predicated on a foundational arrogance of ignorance that blinds them to the reality that here in the Republic any person who legally owns guns is considered by the Powers That Be to have become a clear and present danger to the good order and well being of the world order that those same self appointed arbiters of all that is good and right in the world have decreed to be so.

The underlining intent of the anti-gun ownership crowd has always been to completely remove the option of the Republic's citizens to address their own concerns about avoiding becoming just another faceless crime statistic in their local police blotter via the medium of legal firearms ownership.

These same anti-gun cult members do not care if their political actions led to a direct increase in the overall victimization of the citizenry at large because they are convinced that they......and they alone......are the only ones anointed to have possession of the magic knowledge necessary to lead the Republic to a land where unicorns canter around and the sun always shines.

At the end of the day it matters not a whit what type of firearm you have chosen to legally own.......congratulations......the Republic has stated emphatically that you are now the problem.......not the criminals.......and they......as always ......intend to come after you as they attempt to give birth to their fairyland societal fantasies.

If the present political climate here in the Republic does not give pause to the Fudd community today then they will soon learn at first hand that throwing other passengers off the sleigh to appease the hungry wolf pack nipping at the rider's heels is not going to save them from governmental depredation.

At the signing of the Declaration of Independence on July 4, 1776, Benjamin Franklin reportedly said "We must all hang together, or assuredly we shall all hang separately".

Something all gun owners would benefit from keeping in mind as we try to navigate these troubled waters.

 

[JDL]

F those fudds. As always.

I'd like to see those f-heads shooting trap and skeet with black powder flent locks. Carry on FUDDS

 

[drgrant]

I'd like to see those f-heads shooting trap and skeet with black powder flent locks. Carry on FUDDS

One round of trap would probably take like an hour at least? with a blunderbuss.

 

[Toe Knee]

Are efa10's good to go? shotguns. semi auto. sporting ones with less than 5 round tube.

 

[HorizontalHunter]

Are efa10's good to go? shotguns. semi auto. sporting ones with less than 5 round tube.

For now.

After 10/23 only LTC holder to LTC holder. FID holders are SOL.

 

[babygorilla]

MA needs some true civil disobedience. Refusing to comply isn't that. effective CD is a manufactured event with carefully selected participants. Take Rosa Parks. She wasn't just a random person, she was selected to take a stand. It was expected that she would be arrested, so she had no priors, and at that time a woman, even a black woman, was safer in jail than a black man would have been. And the press were in on it, or at least knew it was going to happen and it would be a newsworthy story.

So if you want to get noticed, put together some real civil disobediance. Participants have to know they will be arrested and are risking their 2a rights forever. Find a dealer willing tho throw it all away over this, and a person also willing to. Get some press, there is always some up and coming in the press that will work with you for the headline. And record the event. So with video, live witnesses, and the press, and even inform the local cops, have the dealer sell an off-roster gun to the person. Repeat this with a dozen other buyers. BTW the buyers have to be super squeaky clean, no record, no internet history to worry about.

This is obviously risky and not easily done, but it would get noticed.

The other route is fight it in the courts, which is what is/will happen.

Exactly what I was saying after 7/20/16

 

[pastera]

I'm not sure if I asked this already, but what is the plain language version of what and why some semi auto shotguns were banned,?

They aren't per se
Section 129B restricts an FID from any semi-auto firearms.

Lines 157 through 159 define a assault-style shotgun

The bigger issue is that now being defined as a firearm, all shotguns come under the roster restrictions. So no dealer can sell them after Oct 23 until the roster is updated (but most rifles and shotguns will never be tested so they will need to be administratively added)

 

[GOAL]

Today we filed papers with the Elections Division to get a ballot question to repeal Chapter 135 going. It's one of several moves being made, in concert with legislative and legal efforts.

Please stay tuned for information on where and how to sign. We are going to need all hands on deck for these multiple fights.

 

[Horatio Alger Jr]

Today we filed papers with the Elections Division to get a ballot question to repeal Chapter 135 going. It's one of several moves being made, in concert with legislative and legal efforts.

Please stay tuned for information on where and how to sign. We are going to need all hands on deck for these multiple fights.

I am curious on the want to have this on the ballot? The antis out number the 2A here, so wouldn't a ballot vote hurt us?

 

[Goliathan]

I am curious on the want to have this on the ballot? The antis out number the 2A here, so wouldn't a ballot vote hurt us?

The bill is signed, so the damage that can be done is already done. If a ballot question to repeal the bill fails, nothing changes from the current state.

On the other hand there are tactical benefits in doing this kind of thing, especially along with other moves being made.

 

[TLB]

I am curious on the want to have this on the ballot? The antis out number the 2A here, so wouldn't a ballot vote hurt us?

There have been rumors of the bill getting delayed if getting the required sigs is successful in a certain time frame. This is been refuted by other posters, but I haven't seen a definitive cite for either perspective.

 

[VTski4x4]

Too f***ing little, way too f***ing late. I'll keep putting my money & faith in FPC - they don't spend decades compromising away ours rights.

 

[LuvDog]

The bill is signed, so the damage that can be done is already done. If a ballot question to repeal the bill fails, nothing changes from the current state.

On the other hand there are tactical benefits in doing this kind of thing, especially along with other moves being made.

I'm not sure about that... but I'm also not a legal expert and did not stay at a holiday inn express.

True, the bill was signed in to law, but it wasn't ever voted on. It is so bad and it stomps on rights so broadly, that I believe there is legal grounds to fight it.

But if it gets on a ballot and the vast majority or 2A hating MA-holes vote to keep it, then it will be "the will of the people" and I think that causes more problems on our side to get it overturned.

 

[Horatio Alger Jr]

The bill is signed, so the damage that can be done is already done. If a ballot question to repeal the bill fails, nothing changes from the current state.

On the other hand there are tactical benefits in doing this kind of thing, especially along with other moves being made.

I understand the bill is already sign and in motion.

Just as PR, it would be a bad move to have it on the ballot. If the ballot loses, then the antis have physical numbers to say they are doing what the voters want.

I don't understand the want to put it on the ballot. It will only give the antis ammo against 2A.

 

[TLB]

I'm not sure about that... but I'm also not a legal expert and did not stay at a holiday inn express.

True, the bill was signed in to law, but it wasn't ever voted on. It is so bad and it stomps on rights so broadly, that I believe there is legal grounds to fight it.

But if it gets on a ballot and the vast majority or 2A hating MA-holes vote to keep it, then it will be "the will of the people" and I think that causes more problems on our side to get it overturned.

The only federal courts that are going to help us aren't going to care about a ballot initiative. Constitutional rights aren't available to be voted away... Mass courts and First Circus are going to f*** us anyway.

 

[Goliathan]

I understand the bill is already sign and in motion.

Just as PR, it would be a bad move to have it on the ballot. If the ballot loses, then the antis have physical numbers to say they are doing what the voters want.

I don't understand the want to put it on the ballot. It will only give the antis ammo against 2A.

Day and the antis are already claiming that they're doing "the will of the people." Remember the "listening" tour? Losing a ballot initiative won't have any material effect on the law or the Constitutional challenges to it.

There's no downside to filing it, and potential for upside and beneficial maneuvering room.