The Conference Committee has sent official language out - h.4885

[HorizontalHunter]

Huh?

So can I or can’t I????

Can I carry a firearm on a public way while hunting?

• You can carry a loaded or unloaded rifle or shotgun upon or across a public way if you are lawfully engaged in hunting and hold a valid hunting license. You do not need a trigger lock on the rifle or shotgun if you are engaged in hunting and have a valid hunting license.

How close can I be to a road or building while hunting with a firearm?

• You cannot possess or discharge a loaded rifle or shotgun within 500 feet of a building or dwelling in use without the owner or occupant’s permission. Also, you cannot discharge a rifle or shotgun upon or across any state or hard surfaced highway or within 150 feet of a highway.

I am going to quote myself here to point out the change from dwelling to “building or dwelling” in use.

This will be used to further reduce setbacks as a “building in use” will be taken to include all sheds and other out buildings

 

[DJBrad]

I am going to quote myself here to point out the change from dwelling to “building or dwelling” in use.

This will be used to further reduce setbacks as a “building in use” will be taken to include all sheds and other out buildings

Back during basic the instructor mentioned any out buildings where an occupant might or could be in as being a “dwelling” thus falling under the setback rule. He posited that an empty sugar shack is valid for the setback. I’m like

 

[Mesatchornug]

Wonderful, basically "things have changed but we can't and won't try to make sense of it all, so good luck!" How the hell can they enforce it if they can't articulate what the law is on their website? God I can't want to get out of here.

that kind of CYA has always been in the abstracts. they've been trying, like us, to understand the mess they were given

 

[Coda]

Back during basic the instructor mentioned any out buildings where an occupant might or could be in as being a “dwelling” thus falling under the setback rule. He posited that an empty sugar shack is valid for the setback. I’m like

Section 12E. Whoever discharges a firearm as defined in section one hundred and twenty-one of chapter one hundred and forty, a rifle or shotgun within five hundred feet of a dwelling or other building in use, except with the consent of the owner or legal occupant thereof, shall be punished by a fine of not less than fifty nor more than one hundred dollars or by imprisonment in a jail or house of correction for not more than three months, or both. The provisions of this section shall not apply to (a) the lawful defense of life and property; (b) any law enforcement officer acting in the discharge of his duties; (c) persons using underground or indoor target or test ranges with the consent of the owner or legal occupant thereof; (d) persons using outdoor skeet, trap, target or test ranges with the consent of the owner or legal occupant of the land on which the range is established; (e) persons using shooting galleries, licensed and defined under the provisions of section fifty-six A of chapter one hundred and forty; and (f) the discharge of blank cartridges for theatrical, athletic, ceremonial, firing squad, or other purposes in accordance with section thirty-nine of chapter one hundred and forty-eight.

The 500' law is a hunting regulation. You need to have an established range. Obviously there is some discretion involved here, you can't set up an established range in the middle of a sub division. But if you are in a rural area with a safe backstop and a neighbor that is within 500' just leave your targets set up all the time and you have an established range.

 

[Toast]

Hunting regs on that setback law haven’t changed. When you are hunting you must unload your firearm within the setback. Does anyone actually do that though? That’s been taught in basic for many years.

That's not what the state is saying at the link.

"Can I carry a firearm on a public way while hunting?

• You can carry a loaded or unloaded rifle or shotgun upon or across a public way if you are lawfully engaged in hunting and hold a valid hunting license."

Of course, from what I understand, the Fish Cops do whatever the hell they like, so ....

 

[Dcdr]

That's not what the state is saying at the link.

"Can I carry a firearm on a public way while hunting?

• You can carry a loaded or unloaded rifle or shotgun upon or across a public way if you are lawfully engaged in hunting and hold a valid hunting license."

Of course, from what I understand, the Fish Cops do whatever the hell they like, so ....

You can carry on a public way while hunting, but not loaded within 500’ of building. There are plenty of roads (public ways) that run through state forests that aren’t littered with houses.

 

[DJBrad]

Section 12E. Whoever discharges a firearm as defined in section one hundred and twenty-one of chapter one hundred and forty, a rifle or shotgun within five hundred feet of a dwelling or other building in use, except with the consent of the owner or legal occupant thereof, shall be punished by a fine of not less than fifty nor more than one hundred dollars or by imprisonment in a jail or house of correction for not more than three months, or both. The provisions of this section shall not apply to (a) the lawful defense of life and property; (b) any law enforcement officer acting in the discharge of his duties; (c) persons using underground or indoor target or test ranges with the consent of the owner or legal occupant thereof; (d) persons using outdoor skeet, trap, target or test ranges with the consent of the owner or legal occupant of the land on which the range is established; (e) persons using shooting galleries, licensed and defined under the provisions of section fifty-six A of chapter one hundred and forty; and (f) the discharge of blank cartridges for theatrical, athletic, ceremonial, firing squad, or other purposes in accordance with section thirty-nine of chapter one hundred and forty-eight.

The 500' law is a hunting regulation. You need to have an established range. Obviously there is some discretion involved here, you can't set up an established range in the middle of a sub division. But if you are in a rural area with a safe backstop and a neighbor that is within 500' just leave your targets set up all the time and you have an established range.

I know. I have a private range and I also am a hunter. I’ve had a cop come and look it over in this town where I own land. We are discussing the hunting regs. It’s sorta off topic.

 

[DJBrad]

That's not what the state is saying at the link.

"Can I carry a firearm on a public way while hunting?

• You can carry a loaded or unloaded rifle or shotgun upon or across a public way if you are lawfully engaged in hunting and hold a valid hunting license."

Of course, from what I understand, the Fish Cops do whatever the hell they like, so ....

You can’t expect these agencies to have a clue at this juncture. I’ve spoken with a few and they have no idea.

 

[Picton]

You can’t expect these agencies to have a clue at this juncture. I’ve spoken with a few and they have no idea.

As a human being, I understand this: I know they can't possibly understand this law any better than I can.

But as a citizen? No. f*** that. They are law-enforcement "professionals." They are responsible to seek demand clarity from their government, or to make it known to the public that they don't intend to enforce it. I'm not giving them any kind of leeway. They had the opportunity to weigh in on this law; some of them fought it, others tried to improve it, but then they all knuckled under. They don't get to claim ignorance unless I get to claim ignorance... and what are the chances they'd let me get away with that?

They get ZERO free pass from me.

 

[Coda]

It’s sorta off topic.

Jeez....... Sorry.

I was just trying to clarify because a lot of people are unaware.

 

[DJBrad]

Jeez....... Sorry.

I was just trying to clarify because a lot of people are unaware.

Sry, not directed at you. I’m just more than a little perturbed at the State and its lackeys.

 

[jason6]

Maybe this was reported already but I was surprised to learn:

FID holders not being able to own, posses, or transfer, a semi automatic shotgun or rifle, only applies to the FID holder that receives an FID after 8/1, whether new FID or renewal. So if you have 5 years left on your FID before renewal, the Semi-auto law does not apply to you.... yet.

 

[Mesatchornug]

Maybe this was reported already but I was surprised to learn:

FID holders not being able to own, posses, or transfer, a semi automatic shotgun or rifle, only applies to the FID holder that receives an FID after 8/1, whether new FID or renewal. So if you have 5 years left on your FID before renewal, the Semi-auto law does not apply to you.... yet.

 

[DJBrad]

SECTION 153. A valid license to carry a firearm issued under sections 131 or 131F of chapter 140 of the General Laws, a valid firearm identification card under section 129B of said chapter 140 or a valid license to sell under section 122 of said chapter 140, shall remain valid until the expiration, suspension or revocation of said license and shall entitle the holder to possess the firearms authorized by the license at the time it was last issued or renewed.

 

[Mesatchornug]

SECTION 153. A valid license to carry a firearm issued under sections 131 or 131F of chapter 140 of the General Laws, a valid firearm identification card under section 129B of said chapter 140 or a valid license to sell under section 122 of said chapter 140, shall remain valid until the expiration, suspension or revocation of said license and shall entitle the holder to possess the firearms authorized by the license at the time it was last issued or renewed.

Holy carp! Someone saw the taking in that change and planned ahead.

 

[DJBrad]

Holy carp! Someone saw the taking in that change and planned ahead.

Yup. Someone knew the instafelon Fudd maker wasn’t gonna fly.

 

[mothybee]

From that link:
"You cannot possess or discharge a loaded rifle or shotgun within 500 feet of a building or dwelling in use without the owner or occupant’s permission. "

I knew about the discharge requirement, but don't recall ever hearing anything about possessing a loaded rifle within 500 feet without the owner's permission. Is that something new, or have I just been ignorant about that part of it before now?

This is a racist law. How's a gang banger do a drive by.

 

[nm1]

Holy carp! Someone saw the taking in that change and planned ahead.

Yup, I remember seeing this (couldn’t find the section). I think the plan was that everyone affected on 8/1 would age out of an FID by renewal time so they would not have cause to sue since their issue is remedied by converting to an LTC.
The one category that would actually be affected would be people locked in to a FID due to statutory disqualifies from an LTC, but they would not be ‘clean’ plaintiffs.

 

[MAJoe]

SECTION 153. A valid license to carry a firearm issued under sections 131 or 131F of chapter 140 of the General Laws, a valid firearm identification card under section 129B of said chapter 140 or a valid license to sell under section 122 of said chapter 140, shall remain valid until the expiration, suspension or revocation of said license and shall entitle the holder to possess the firearms authorized by the license at the time it was last issued or renewed.

Good find.

@pastera

 

[DJBrad]

Good find.

@pastera

I want to say they somehow snuck that in there, but I can’t prove it.

 

[MAJoe]

I want to say they somehow snuck that in there, but I can’t prove it.

I checked my copy of 4885 from July and it’s in there.

 

[jason6]

Another thing I was surprised to learn, is that the law requiring you to submit your FID or LTC to a law enforcement official upon DEMAND is no longer a thing. The new law, which is supposedly championed by the law enforcement community, did away with that provision. Oops

 

[Coyote33]

Another thing I was surprised to learn, is that the law requiring you to submit your FID or LTC to a law enforcement official upon DEMAND is no longer a thing. The new law, which is supposedly championed by the law enforcement community, did away with that provision. Oops

Where was it in the old law? Is that section now gone, or modified?

 

[DJBrad]

Another thing I was surprised to learn, is that the law requiring you to submit your FID or LTC to a law enforcement official upon DEMAND is no longer a thing. The new law, which is supposedly championed by the law enforcement community, did away with that provision. Oops

You’re on a roll.

Chapter 140 Section 129C(u) is no longer.


I wouldn’t mess with that one though.

 

[DJBrad]

Section 45 in the new law

For 129C in its entirety


Section 129C. (a) Possession of a firearm or ammunition for a particular purpose and limited time without being duly issued a license, permit or card under sections 129B, 131, 131A or 131F shall be permitted by: (i) a person voluntarily surrendering the firearm or ammunition to the colonel of the state police pursuant to section 131O, (ii) a resident of the commonwealth returning after having been absent from the commonwealth for not less than 180 consecutive days or any new resident moving to the commonwealth, only with respect to any firearm or ammunition then in their possession prior to moving or return and only for 60 days after such return or entry into the commonwealth; or (iii) an heir or devisee upon the death of the legal owner of the firearm or the ammunition for not more than 60 days after said firearm or ammunition is transferred into their possession and who shall also be permitted to sell or otherwise transfer said firearm or ammunition to a duly licensed person within this time period pursuant to section 128A.
(b) Possession of a firearm or ammunition while under direct supervision of an individual holding a license or card under section 129B, 131 or 131F and only for a particular purpose and limited time without being duly licensed or permitted under said sections 129B, 131 or 131F is permitted by: (i) a retail customer for the purpose of firing at duly licensed target concessions at amusement parks, piers and similar locations; provided, that the firearms to be so used shall be firmly chained or affixed to the counter and shall be under the direct supervision of a proprietor or employee thereof who holds the necessary license or card; (ii) a professional photographer or writer for examination purposes while in the pursuit of their profession or during the course of any television, movie, stage or other similar theatrical production; provided, that they are at all times under the immediate supervision of a holder of a license to carry or, in the case of rifles and shotguns that are not large capacity or semi-automatic, a firearm identification card; or (iii) a person in the presence of a holder of the necessary license or card for the purpose of examination, trial or instruction.
(c) Common carriers and their duly authorized employees and agents may possess firearms and ammunition therefor without holding the necessary license or card under sections 129B, 131 or 131F while performing the regular and ordinary transport of firearms and ammunition as merchandise for customers duly licensed to permit such transport and so long as they abide by all storage and transportation requirements set forth in sections 131C and 131L.
(d) Notwithstanding section 131B, banks or institutional lenders and their duly authorized employees and agents, may possess and transfer non large capacity firearms and ammunition therefor as collateral for a secured commercial transaction or because of a default thereof without holding the necessary license or card under said sections 129B, 131 or 131F.
(e) Other organizations and their duly authorized employees and agents, may purchase, transfer and possess as so indicated in this subsection non large capacity firearms and ammunition therefor for a particular purpose and limited time without holding the necessary license or card under sections 129D, 131 or 131F if they are: (i) a federally licensed firearms manufacturer or wholesale dealer or their employees or agents who may possess firearms and ammunition therefor when their possession is necessary for manufacture, display, storage, transport, installation, inspection or testing; (ii) federal, state and local historical societies, museums and institutional collections open to the public who may possess firearms and ammunition therefor; provided, that such firearms shall be unloaded and properly housed and secured from unauthorized handling; provided further that the requirements for sales in section 128A are met; or (iii) a veteran’s organization chartered by the congress of the United States, chartered by the commonwealth or recognized as a nonprofit tax-exempt organization by the internal revenue service and its members who may possess firearms and ammunition; provided, however, that members may only possess unloaded large capacity rifles or unloaded large capacity shotguns or large capacity rifles or large capacity shotguns that are loaded with blank cartridges and which contain no projectile within the blank or the bore or chamber; and provided further, that all possession by members of veteran’s organizations shall be limited to official parade duty or ceremonial occasions.
(f) A person in the military or other service of any state or of the United States, and police officers and other peace officers of any jurisdiction, who may purchase, sell or otherwise transfer and possess non-large capacity firearms and ammunition therefor without holding a license or card under sections 129D, 131 or 131F while in the performance of their official duty or when duly authorized to possess them by their employing agency; provided, that the requirements for sales in section 128A are met. Upon purchase, a person exempted under this subsection shall submit to the seller full and clear proof of identification, including shield number, serial number, military or governmental order or authorization, military or other official identification, as applicable.
(g) A person may furnish a minor or person under 21 years of age with a firearm and ammunition for hunting, instruction, recreation and participation in shooting sports provided that the person furnishing the firearm and ammunition holds the appropriate license, permit or card, or is a duly commissioned officer, noncommissioned officer or enlisted member of the United States army, navy, marine corps, air force or coast guard, or the national guard or military service of the commonwealth or reserve components thereof, while in performance of their duty
(h) No license, permit or card under this chapter shall be required for a legal resident of the commonwealth over the age of 18 to carry or possess: (i) a firearm known as a detonator and commonly used on vehicles as a signaling and marking device and only when carried or possessed for such purposes; or (ii) any device used exclusively for signaling or distress use and required or recommended by the United States Coast Guard or the Interstate Commerce Commission, or for the firing of stud cartridges, explosive rivets or similar industrial ammunition.
(i) A nonresident who is at least 18 years of age may possess rifles and shotguns that are not large capacity or semi-automatic and ammunition therefor if the nonresident has a permit, card or license issued from their state of residence which has substantially similar requirements to those of the commonwealth for a firearm identification card as determined by the colonel of the state police pursuant to subsection (l)
(j) A nonresident who is at least 18 years of age may possess rifles and shotguns that are not large capacity or semi-automatic and ammunition therefor: (i) to hunt during hunting season with a nonresident hunting license or a hunting license or permit lawfully issued from their state of residence, which has substantially similar requirements to those in section 11 of chapter 131, as determined by the colonel of the state police pursuant to subsection (l); (ii) while on a firing or shooting range; (iii) while traveling in or through the commonwealth; provided, that the rifles and shotguns that are not large capacity or semi-automatic shall be unloaded and in a locked container pursuant to sections 131C and 131L; or (iv) while at a firearm showing or display organized by a regularly existing gun collectors’ club or association.
(k) A nonresident may carry a firearm on their person while in a vehicle lawfully traveling through the commonwealth; provided, however, that the firearm shall remain in the vehicle and if the firearm is outside its owner’s direct control it shall be stored in the vehicle in accordance with section 131C.
(l) The colonel of the state police shall determine those states with substantially similar requirements to those of the commonwealth for a firearm identification card under section 129C and a hunting license under section 11 of chapter 131 and shall annually publish a list of those states.
(m) Nothing in this section shall supersede the firearm registration and serialization requirements pursuant to sections 121B and 121C.

 

[DJBrad]

OLD LAW

For reference

General Law - Part I, Title XX, Chapter 140, Section 129C

malegislature.gov

 

[jason6]

Well as long as DJBrad is doing all the heavy lifting for me, how about the new stipulation that the colonel of the state police has to auction off any seized firearms. So are bonded warehouses able to legally sell firearms anymore? Or does the colonel have to auction them off (which he wont), putting bonded warehouses out of business in MA?

 

[jason6]

another thing: in the new law you can only loan a firearm to someone for 7 days before you need to transfer to them. So to loan a firearm to someone for more than 7 days you need to do a transfer, and you can only do 4 transfers. SOOOOO, if you have a 209A protection order, or now a harassment prevention order, or anything else your disqualified for, like charged with an OUI before you can CWOF it or go to trial......you used to be able to have someone else store your guns for you temporarily, but no more. Now you have to legally transfer all your guns to someone else, because you'll be disqualified for more than 7 days. And you cant privately transfer more than 4....

 

[DJBrad]

Well as long as DJBrad is doing all the heavy lifting for me, how about the new stipulation that the colonel of the state police has to auction off any seized firearms. So are bonded warehouses able to legally sell firearms anymore? Or does the colonel have to auction them off (which he wont), putting bonded warehouses out of business in MA?

You provided a notable addition to this thread so I don’t mind bearing weight.




It’s worse in the new law.



SECTION 46. Said chapter 140 is hereby further amended by striking out section 129D, as so appearing, and inserting in place thereof the following section:-
Section 129D. (a) Upon revocation, suspension or denial of an application for any license or card issued pursuant to sections 129B, 131 or 131F the person whose application was so revoked, suspended or denied shall, without delay, deliver or surrender to the licensing authority where the person resides all firearms or ammunition which are registered to the person or that the person then possesses and shall report such delivery or surrender to the electronic firearms registration system pursuant to section 121B. The person or the person’s legal representative shall have the right, at any time up to 1 year after the delivery or surrender, to transfer the firearms and ammunition, notwithstanding the limits on private firearm transfers in section 128A, to a licensed dealer or to a person legally permitted to purchase or take possession of the firearms and ammunition and, upon notification in writing by the purchaser or transferee and the former owner, the licensing authority shall within 10 days deliver the firearms and ammunition to the transferee or purchaser and the licensing authority shall observe due care in the receipt and holding of any such firearm or ammunition; provided, however, that the purchaser or transferee shall affirm in writing that the purchaser or transferee shall not transfer the firearms or ammunition to the former owner; provided, however, that such transfer shall not be permitted if the firearm may be evidence in any pending criminal investigation. The licensing authority shall at the time of delivery or surrender inform the person in writing of their right to request a transfer in accordance with this paragraph.
(b) The licensing authority, after taking possession of any firearm or ammunition by any means, may transfer possession for storage purposes to a federally licensed firearms dealer who operates a bonded warehouse on the licensed premises that is equipped with a safe for the secure storage of firearms and a weapon box or similar container for the secure storage of ammunition; provided, however, that the licensing authority shall not transfer to such dealer possession of any firearm or ammunition that may be evidence in any pending criminal investigation. Any such dealer that takes possession of a firearm or ammunition pursuant to this section shall: (i) inspect the firearm or ammunition; (ii) issue to the owner a receipt indicating the make, model, caliber, serial number and condition of each firearm or ammunition so received; and (iii) store and maintain all firearms and ammunition so received in accordance with such regulations, rules or guidelines as the secretary of the executive office of public safety and security may establish under this section. The owner shall be liable to such dealer for reasonable storage charges.
(c) Firearms and ammunition not disposed of within 1 year of delivery or surrender pursuant to this section shall be sold at public auction by the colonel of the state police to the highest bidding person legally permitted to purchase and possess said firearms and ammunition and the proceeds shall be remitted to the General Fund.
(d) Any such firearm or ammunition that is stored and maintained by a licensed dealer may be so auctioned pursuant to subsection (c) at the direction of: (i) the licensing authority at the expiration of 1 year following initial surrender or delivery to such licensing authority; or (ii) the dealer then in possession, if the storage charges for such firearm or ammunition have been in arrears for 90 days; provided, however, that in either case, title shall pass to the licensed dealer for the purpose of transferring ownership to the auctioneer; provided further, that in either case, after deduction and payment for storage charges and all necessary costs associated with such surrender and transfer, all surplus proceeds, if any, shall be immediately returned to the owner of such firearm or ammunition; provided, however, that any firearm or ammunition identified pursuant to section 131Q as having been used to carry out a criminal act and any firearm or ammunition prohibited by law from being owned or possessed within the commonwealth shall not be sold at public auction pursuant to this section and shall instead be destroyed by the colonel of the state police.
(e) Unless otherwise required in this chapter, if the licensing authority cannot reasonably ascertain a lawful owner within 180 days of acquisition by the licensing authority, the licensing authority may, in its discretion, trade or dispose of surplus, donated, abandoned or junk firearms or ammunition to properly licensed distributors or firearms dealers. The proceeds of the sale or transfer shall be remitted or credited to the municipality in which the licensing authority presides to purchase firearms, equipment or supplies or for violence reduction or suicide prevention; provided, however, that no firearm or ammunition identified pursuant to section 131Q as having been used to carry out a criminal act shall be considered surplus, donated, abandoned or junk for the purposes of this section.
(f) The licensing authority shall report the delivery or surrender or seizure of firearms and ammunition pursuant to sections 131R to 131Y, inclusive, to the department of criminal justice information services via the electronic firearms registration system. The report shall include the following information: (i) date of delivery, surrender or seizure; (ii) make, model, serial number and caliber of the firearm delivered, surrendered or seized and any identifying information for ammunition delivered, surrendered or seized; (iii) grounds for surrender or seizure; (iv) whether the firearm or ammunition is prohibited by law from being owned or possessed in the commonwealth; (v) whether the firearm or ammunition was classified as having been used to carry out a criminal act; (vi) information on the possession, storage, transfer, sale and any income derived therefrom; and (vii) the destruction or other disposition of the firearm or ammunition. Upon submission of this information, the system shall automatically report back to the licensing authority whether the firearm is registered, serialized, reported lost or stolen or potential evidence in a pending criminal investigation.
(g) The secretary of the executive office of public safety and security may promulgate rules and regulations as necessary to carry out this section.

 

[pastera]

From that link:
"You cannot possess or discharge a loaded rifle or shotgun within 500 feet of a building or dwelling in use without the owner or occupant’s permission. "

I knew about the discharge requirement, but don't recall ever hearing anything about possessing a loaded rifle within 500 feet without the owner's permission. Is that something new, or have I just been ignorant about that part of it before now?

If your firearm is loaded then you are considered to be hunting.
And you can't hunt within 500 feet of an occupied dwelling.