The H&K P7 M13 is Coming Back? The P7 Pro at SHOT Show 2025!

[drgrant]

I believe the question has been put to HK directly and it was essentially laughed off as never happening. I may be making this up but I believe the story is that the original mfg equipment had reached the end of its useful life and is long gone.

It's all just excuses, but the bottom line is that the profit margin on something like a p7 is a lot worse than a polymer gun where they have less than 100 bucks into the gun and sell it for $600-$1000+ that's why they don't make P7 anymore.

 

[M1911]

That would explain why I was still buying brand new in wrapper PSP mags from the HK webshop as recently as a few years ago.

He said that HK still does P7 magazine runs now and then.

 

[M1911]

It's all just excuses, but the bottom line is that the profit margin on something like a p7 is a lot worse than a polymer gun where they have less than 100 bucks into the gun and sell it for $600-$1000+ that's why they don't make P7 anymore.

It is also about the size of the market. HK could sell hundreds of thousands of a polymer gun per year. In contrast, the market for P7s is limited to a few thousand of us gun nerds.

 

[drgrant]

It is also about the size of the market. HK could sell hundreds of thousands of a polymer gun per year. In contrast, the market for P7s is limited to a few thousand of us gun nerds.

True but they would easily sell 5000 P7s these days with little difficulty. The pent up demand among gun nerds is pretty high. When they had that last run in 2004? that batch of guns did not last long in the channel.

 

[M1911]

True but they would easily sell 5000 P7s these days with little difficulty. The pent up demand among gun nerds is pretty high. When they had that last run in 2004? that batch of guns did not last long in the channel.

That pent up demand is a one time thing. Yeah, maybe they could sell 5,000 guns the first year. But what about year two?

Those engineering resources would be better spent elsewhere (like on their slimline polymer P365 competitor that they recently released).

 

[KMM696]

It does somewhat function as a grip safety but wait, there's more...
Think of it like a Glock except where instead of the trigger cocking the striker, the pivoting front of the grip does it and then also acts as a decocker.
Also utilizes a gas piston operated slide, enabling the barrel to be fixed to the frame.

The front grip also acts as the slide release. The front grip needs a lot less force to hold in than to start it moving in, so it's not as disruptive to accuracy as you might think.

They'll take away my HK Owners Secret Squirrel Card if I don't get all pedantic and mention that the slide is recoil operated, and the gas cylinder retards the slide from moving until the bullet escapes the barrel. Which does indeed have the barrel fixed to the frame, and is stupidly accurate for something not wearing target sights.

The focus was to resurrect a P7 but modernize it and make it more viable for carry, making it slimmer and lighter than the P7M8/M13 but still as soft and flat shooting. The P7 is pretty heavy loaded. That said, I don’t have any time behind one of these. I don’t know if I’d want to carry this or not.

I carried one for 5 or 6 years, until I was pushed off the caliber by policy. P7M8, not the P7M13. I always liked it, but it is an odd manual of arms to learn for a carry piece. I last carried it in 2004, and have thought about bringing it back out into service. I haven't committed to the time relearning the pistol I would need for EDC. It was completely reliable, as long as you followed the maintenance direction of reaming carbon out of the gas cylinder every 500 rounds. I tested that, and with good commercial ammo got it to malfunction at about 750 in - bumped the back of the slide and it was in service for another hundred until it jammed up again.

I'll be interested to see where this effort ends up. I'm not interested at the mid 3k$ he's talking about, but if they can get that price significantly lower than the going rate for a used HK P7M13 or P7M10 I'd be interested, assuming they got the bugs out of it. Might be some appeal to the HK fans if the price comes down so they can have their HK pistol, and shoot a new, less collectible production gun. I'm also curious what HK could sell a new one for, as CNC production was in it's infancy when the original came out.

 

[not new guy]

True but they would easily sell 5000 P7s these days with little difficulty. The pent up demand among gun nerds is pretty high. When they had that last run in 2004? that batch of guns did not last long in the channel.

That last run was only 500 units IIRC. Agree that they'd have no problem selling 5k, even at prices over $2k, but I think the curve drops off pretty quickly when you get to XX,000 units.

HK has had no problem doing special runs of guns to meet special order demand - I think they just had a group buy on hkpro for green USPc tacticals (something like that), but that only works where they're setup for the gun in the first place and only need to change some variable(s). Bringing the P7s back online would require new machines, molds, training, QC, blah blah blah, and HK has never been quick to get something new to market.

 

[IPSC_DRL]

I watched the video but didn't understand - is HK making these again, and mechanically it's the same just a lighter frame and different grip?

I love Die Hard and the gun was way ahead of its time, but I DON'T SEE THE APPEAL

It stirs the soul.

 

[not new guy]

I wonder how the modernized (i.e. lighter) guns do in a holster compared to the originals. Finding an IWB holster that works for these was never easy, and not just because few holster makers bothered (and the PSP and P7M8s had different trigger guard shapes). The loaded gun is so rear-heavy and the barrel/slide so short that the balance is off and it always wanted to tip over.

 

[KMM696]

I wonder how the modernized (i.e. lighter) guns do in a holster compared to the originals. Finding an IWB holster that works for these was never easy, and not just because few holster makers bothered (and the PSP and P7M8s had different trigger guard shapes). The loaded gun is so rear-heavy and the barrel/slide so short that the balance is off and it always wanted to tip over.

Kramer #3 was the answer for mine. Not, you know, the inexpensive answer.

 

[not new guy]

Kramer #3 was the answer for mine. Not, you know, the inexpensive answer.

I have some other expensive full leather holster - maybe a Kramer - that worked well, but the Garret lined kydex Silent Thunder is my current go-to when I do carry it. I have 2 or 3 kydex failures in the holster box for it though.

 

[PappyM3]

They are just not going to do it. The market is too small. They will put those engineering and manufacturing resources into building a gun that will sell hundreds of thousands of units, not to a boutique gun that will sell a couple thousand units per year.

And yet Sig makes the new P210.

But I’m sure even if they are thinking about it, they’d put their efforts into a U.S. SP7 first.

I believe the question has been put to HK directly and it was essentially laughed off as never happening. I may be making this up but I believe the story is that the original mfg equipment had reached the end of its useful life and is long gone.

That was before they had the U.S. manufacturing plant. There’s also no reason they need the prior tooling. No, it wouldn’t be an exact copy of the old one, but they can make a new one.

Modern manufacturing and machining mean they can automate it much easier than in the past, it’s not a stamped steel gun like an MP5 that requires specific, single-purpose tooling.

In more recent interviews since their new U.S. plant opened, they haven’t ruled out a new P7.

 

[not new guy]

And yet Sig makes the new P210.

But I’m sure even if they are thinking about it, they’d put their efforts into a U.S. SP7 first.



That was before they had the U.S. manufacturing plant. There’s also no reason they need the prior tooling. No, it wouldn’t be an exact copy of the old one, but they can make a new one.

Modern manufacturing and machining mean they can automate it much easier than in the past, it’s not a stamped steel gun like an MP5 that requires specific, single-purpose tooling.

In more recent interviews since their new U.S. plant opened, they haven’t ruled out a new P7.

That would be awesome. I would hesitate to buy (i.e. not buy) this clone P7. I would not hesitate to buy a new HK manufactured P7. The problems of course now are that getting one in MA will be impossible as things currently stand, and I'll be 150 years old and too feeble to squeeze the grip by the time they end up releasing it.

 

[M1911]

And yet Sig makes the new P210.

SIG sells a lot of limited run guns. Some of them are even fully engineered.

 

[G4Y4HK]

Great. Modernizing a P7. Does that mean it will come with 1913 teeth and a nice spot to put a big ARCO tv on it?

 

[G4Y4HK]

SIG sells a lot of limited run guns. Some of them are even fully engineered.

Sig should bring back a limited run of the P225A1. Lovely low capacity officer's showpiece. Preferably in a NiBX finish

 

[Lowbird]

How so?

Jake goes over some issues in the video I posted. Towards the end.

 

[M1911]

Sig should bring back a limited run of the P225A1. Lovely low capacity officer's showpiece. Preferably in a NiBX finish

Full size gun with 8 round capacity in an age of 18 round P365 Macros? I don’t see it.

 

[G4Y4HK]

Full size gun with 8 round capacity in an age of 18 round P365 Macros? I don’t see it.

I used to like carrying that in MA. Somehow a pistol designed from the ground up to be low capacity was less triggering than carrying something designed to take 17+1 but has a special cuck mag that only went up to ten.

 

[M1911]

I used to like carrying that in MA. Somehow a pistol designed from the ground up to be low capacity was less triggering than carrying something designed to take 17+1 but has a special cuck mag that only went up to ten.

If I’m carrying a 10 rd 9mm, then I’m carrying a 43x or 19, not a full size gun like a P225.

 

[drgrant]

That pent up demand is a one time thing. Yeah, maybe they could sell 5,000 guns the first year. But what about year two?

I wouldn't be shocked if they sold several thousand a year.

This isn't like Krapber where they make a 10mm once every 5 years and 50% of the production shelf rots somewhere because its a hard sell when you can throw a few hundo more
and get a DW.

Those engineering resources would be better spent elsewhere (like on their slimline polymer P365 competitor that they recently released).

What resources? They already know how to make the gun.

I think they wont do it because of capital efficiency > image at this point for most of these companies. This is a global problem now, faggoty corporatism is even exceeding the desire to promote a corporate image of some sort of excellence or superiority. It used to be that some companies would make a low margin product that helped them preserve or enhance their
reputation, now greedy faggots run everything and whine when you do something that doesnt have the highest possible ROI.

Nowadays HKs money people are probably like "Why would we want to do that when we can sell dumb guns like P30's to morons and keep like 90% of the money we get?" They still make a few roller lock guns but thats basically it.

I guess, but that market (people who would have waited it out to buy an HK sub mini) isnt that big either, even compared to the gun nerd market above. Remember, they're WAY late to the party and the P365 and 43/43x are getting all tthe sales. I doubt they would even touch the Hellcat in sales at this point.

 

[M1911]

What resources? They already know how to make the gun.

No, they don't. The tooling is gone. While they undoubtedly have the plans, those are likely blueprints, not a 3D model. And they certainly don't have the machining instructions for CNC machines to build the parts (because it probably was never built on CNC machines). And then there are the well known issues with the gun that they would want to solve -- the fact that you can't shoot 50 rounds before it heats up, etc. Also, the engineers that worked on the P7 and the folks who built them have likely long since retired. All that knowledge is gone.

Why would you have engineers do this rather than working on their next striker-fired, polymer gun, with a red dot ready slide, and modular grip?

 

[drgrant]

No, they don't. The tooling is gone. While they undoubtedly have the plans, those are likely blueprints, not a 3D model. And they certainly don't have the machining instructions for CNC machines to build the parts (because it probably was never built on CNC machines). And then there are the well known issues with the gun that they would want to solve -- the fact that you can't shoot 50 rounds before it heats up, etc. Also, the engineers that worked on the P7 and the folks who built them have likely long since retired. All that knowledge is gone.

It's not that gone if some rando guy is making shitty clones of it and failing, HK could do it (and not f*** it up) if they really wanted to.

Why would you have engineers do this rather than working on their next striker-fired, polymer gun, with a red dot ready slide, and modular grip?

Sure they can, but itts the same shit everyone else is doing. And they're 5 years WAAAAY too late to the party. They won't even be able to touch even the Hellcat in
sales and its arguably the worst of the 3 or 4 guns in that segment. And when HK gets done doing that, it will cost too much for what it is unless they get smart and aggressive with
it like they did with the $549 VP9 special. (that was probably the smartest thing they ever did, business wise. )

I'm not saying a P7M8 is a great business idea but its a great image idea along the lines of what they did with the SP5 etc.

 

[M1911]

It's not that gone if some rando guy is making shitty clones of it and failing, HK could do it (and not f*** it up) if they really wanted to.

Yes, HK could do the same thing that he did. But that would take engineering time and money. The questions isn't can they do the same thing, but rather should they and at what cost?

HK didn't give him a technical package with a 3D CAD CAM model. HK didn't give him the instructions for CNC machines to mill out the parts. HK doesn't have any of that because they never had it -- the P7 manufacturing ended long before that. So to tool up for the gun, HK would have to take their blueprints and/or scan their existing guns, create the models and CNC instructions. They would then have to decide what to change, build prototypes, test them, refine them, etc. All of that takes engineering time. Why should HK spend time and money to do that? It's a niche market.

 

[rep308]

Oh, if you buy one, I’m sure that it will be easy to get it serviced if it breaks. There are so many HK gunsmiths and HK customer service is legendary.

I’m a Former USP owner who tried to get a left hand safety installed after chasing the part for months.

 

[drgrant]

Yes, HK could do the same thing that he did. But that would take engineering time and money. The questions isn't can they do the same thing, but rather should they and at what cost?

HK didn't give him a technical package with a 3D CAD CAM model. HK didn't give him the instructions for CNC machines to mill out the parts. HK doesn't have any of that because they never had it -- the P7 manufacturing ended long before that. So to tool up for the gun, HK would have to take their blueprints and/or scan their existing guns, create the models and CNC instructions. They would then have to decide what to change, build prototypes, test them, refine them, etc. All of that takes engineering time. Why should HK spend time and money to do that? It's a niche market.

HK is literally a niche gun manufacturer LMAO on the commercial side they're not exactly a giant market company. Walk into a large gun shop that also happens to sell HK products and talk to the owner of the manager and you'll quickly find out that HK is probably less than 1% of the sales of the entire shop. The vp9 was the closest they ever did to breaking into big numbers of guns in recent history.

 

[M1911]

Oh, if you buy one, I’m sure that it will be easy to get it serviced if it breaks. There are so many HK gunsmiths and HK customer service is legendary.

I’m a Former USP owner who tried to get a left hand safety installed after chasing the part for months.

Yeah, it took me several phone calls and months to just get a fricking spring out of them.

 

[M1911]

HK is literally a niche gun manufacturer LMAO on the commercial side they're not exactly a giant market company. Walk into a large gun shop that also happens to sell HK products and talk to the owner of the manager and you'll quickly find out that HK is probably less than 1% of the sales of the entire shop. The vp9 was the closest they ever did to breaking into big numbers of guns in recent history.

Yes, Glock sells way more guns than HK. But HK would sell way, way more VP9s than P7s.

 

[not new guy]

Oh, if you buy one, I’m sure that it will be easy to get it serviced if it breaks. There are so many HK gunsmiths and HK customer service is legendary.

I’m a Former USP owner who tried to get a left hand safety installed after chasing the part for months.

If you want work done on a P7 you go to James. I'm sure he'll work on these too, assuming P7 Pro isn't (competently) honoring their lifetime warranty.

Teufelshund Tactical

www.teufelshundtactical.com

 

[Tartakovsky]

I’d love to have a P7M13 Slim with a red dot, after they fix reliability and if the price comes down. I’m certainly not a buyer at $3k+.

If he can get off the ground and bulk up production, we may see prices come down, but not sure what market adjusted price would be vs his retail. It’s not an HK, so tough to justify the HK brand premium. It’s not a P7M8, it’s a P7 clone so $3k is “aggressive”.

Yes, HK could do the same thing that he did. But that would take engineering time and money. The questions isn't can they do the same thing, but rather should they and at what cost?

HK didn't give him a technical package with a 3D CAD CAM model. HK didn't give him the instructions for CNC machines to mill out the parts. HK doesn't have any of that because they never had it -- the P7 manufacturing ended long before that. So to tool up for the gun, HK would have to take their blueprints and/or scan their existing guns, create the models and CNC instructions. They would then have to decide what to change, build prototypes, test them, refine them, etc. All of that takes engineering time. Why should HK spend time and money to do that? It's a niche market.

so you’re saying there’s a chance….

Hey, after FN Browning killed the Hi-Power, Springfield made a clone, spurring FN to say F YOU, then brought a modernized Hi Power back. It could happen….