The Conference Committee has sent official language out - h.4885

[scott-o]

Ayup.

This is optics. They're not under the delusion this will affect crime, especially since they didn't appropriate any money to implement or enforce it.



If they're smart, they might not want to say...

Some of them are, indeed, giving advice: build it out (perhaps as a .22lr), EFA-10 now, then break down. If I was in your boat (I'm not; I don't really like ARs), that's probably what I'd do.

The notice and FAQs even says all 22lr rifles are not considered.

Furthermore, post notice for a while back in 2016-2018 there were some FFLs selling lowers requiring you sign a waiver that you would only build a 22lr rifle with it "to voluntarily comply with her notice" per the notice that is.

It's all a shit show.

 

[VTski4x4]

Make politicians fearful again.

 

[inerlogic]

Man watching that you can't help but feel depressed

i'm just happy she was able to escape to the US

 

[not new guy]

The notice and FAQs even says all 22lr rifles are not considered.

Furthermore, post notice for a while back in 2016-2018 there were some FFLs selling lowers requiring you sign a waiver that you would only build a 22lr rifle with it "to voluntarily comply with her notice" per the notice that is.

It's all a shit show.

View our .22 LR Complete Uppers | Bear Creek Arsenal

Grab the perfect .22 LR Complete uppers to shoot .22 LR from the AR platform and enjoy lower ammo costs, low recoil plinking, and varmint hunting. Save with BCA!

www.bearcreekarsenal.com

Just saying, maybe you want the option of having a bunch of different lower receiver options for your favorite 22lr upper.

 

[maltc]

Has anyone else looked into this?

 

[drgrant]

View attachment 900924
Has anyone else looked into this?

A plain reading of that part of the bill pretty much reaffirms what cgw is saying there. Range use only. Must be locked up and unloaded otherwise.

Extremely retarded.

 

[MAJoe]

The notice and FAQs even says all 22lr rifles are not considered.

Furthermore, post notice for a while back in 2016-2018 there were some FFLs selling lowers requiring you sign a waiver that you would only build a 22lr rifle with it "to voluntarily comply with her notice" per the notice that is.

It's all a shit show.

Which doesn’t matter at all now. The copies and duplicates language doesn’t align with the FAQ. It:
- Doesn’t exempt rimfire
- Doesn’t exempt sales on 7/20

If the 7/20 date is what matters for AR grandfathering, building and registering an AR now as rimfire won’t make a difference once this is in effect. I don’t understand the logic of people saying the 7/20 date is the cutoff for ARs but you should register a pre-7/20 lower before 8/1. Under the new law, post 7/20 is post 7/20. It doesn’t matter. It’s not grandfathered.

If you believe the 8/1 date is what matters, then go ahead. If you don’t… unbuilt or built and registered, it’s a felony in 90 days. The only difference is one has your evidence of it in a database.

 

[pastera]

The only flaw in this plan is that it will take Years

Understood
I have made that my position from the start
Putting a bandaid over a festering wound hides the problem but allows it to continue to fester. To heal you need to rip off the bandage and scrub the wound clean and that's really painful.
We have been playing with bandaids for years, it's time to open up the would to some light.

If we put in several very narrow cases that are all questions of law without requesting injunctions we should be able to fast track most of the possession stuff.
The redflag and restraining order stuff is going to suck post Rahimi so we likely will need to go the slow route and go for injunctions there.

But overall none of the assault-style crap has a possibility of surviving Heller/Bruen scrutiny so it will fall as long as SCOTUS doesn't fall into the hands of progressive ideologues

 

[Grendizer138]

A plain reading of that part of the bill pretty much reaffirms what cgw is saying there. Range use only. Must be locked up and unloaded otherwise.

Extremely retarded.

Which is why I can’t understand why people are buying pre-bans now.

Me? I’ll make a good faith effort to comply with reasonable laws.

 

[TLB]

How about doing whatever you want and not getting caught?

There is not any realistic situation where they are going to come and inspect anything, they don't have the recourses for that bullshit.

The amount of NEW AR's that are hitting the homes of Mass residents is probably 100x the amount during the covid panic buying.

Dont get a domestic, don't get caught driving dirty with it in your vehicle and be aware of your surroundings at the range and your probably 99.9% fine.

This. There no greater irony than a bunch of gun owners discussing how to comply with unconstitutional laws that are trying to take their guns away. Why do people think the founders wrote the second amendment? Please stop giving a shit about being law abiding. Why listen to corrupt politicians trying to tell you how to live your life? They can f*** right off. Now, this doesn't mean be stupid. Gray man technique is always best.

Oh, and @Picton for governor!

 

[Skeeter]

I thought I remembered issued “guidance” regarding building a lower acquired post 7/20/16 issued by the AG at that time. Does that exist and if so can someone post it if you have it. I’d like to read it?

 

[Darksideblues42]

Involuntary

I had a co-worker that lost his Grandmother, 3 days later, his Grandfather, and both of his parents the day before his birthday 2 days after the grandparents. (Natural causes on the grandparents, Dad had a heart attack while driving with mom to finish making funeral plans, he drove off the road into a tree)
Co-worker's fiancé had him sectioned because "He seems really sad and depressed and he didn't want to go out for Sunday dinner with my mom on his birthday or to the concert he was looking forward to on Monday"

They held him the full 3 days, all the while saying his level of depression / sadness / anxiety was in line with someone enduring so many losses all in a row like that.

He still married the girl.

 

[426wedge]

what do you guys want me to do with the two threads? Merge or keep this one going and lock the other one? Having two is dumb.

no matter, I am totally blind now...

 

[AJK129]

I had a co-worker that lost his Grandmother, 3 days later, his Grandfather, and both of his parents the day before his birthday 2 days after the grandparents. (Natural causes on the grandparents, Dad had a heart attack while driving with mom to finish making funeral plans, he drove off the road into a tree)
Co-worker's fiancé had him sectioned because "He seems really sad and depressed and he didn't want to go out for Sunday dinner with my mom on his birthday or to the concert he was looking forward to on Monday"

They held him the full 3 days, all the while saying his level of depression / sadness / anxiety was in line with someone enduring so many losses all in a row like that.

He still married the girl.

People just cant help trying to bring the gov into their lives

 

[CrackPot]

Just catching up over a day of postings. Some thoughts.

If the governor does not sign, it passes on 7/28 as if signed. It takes EFFECT 90 days later.

All the provisions of the law take effect on the effective date of roughly 10/26/24 except for items that are delayed in the law relative to the effective date. For example section 121B takes effect no more than one year after effective date but once they have a new IT system. Some sections are delayed 18 months. All the delayed effective dates are at the end of the bill

8/1/24 is the grandfather date for lawfully possessed not being illegal to continue to possess even though they are now ASWs. Anyone who cares about 7/20/16 is saying that the enforcement notice is accurate and all your guns are already illegal. All the new 7/20/16 language does is make pre 7/20/16 stuff not copies or duplicates UNDER THE NEW LAW. Everything fails the feature test under the new law so who cares about copies or duplicates. Current law determines legality on 8/1/24. Period

Interesting is that lawfully possessed includes dealers. So anything in my inventory I can continue to sell after 8/1 if the law has taken effect and it will be grandfathered for the new owner when the law does take effect. The real key is everything needs to be in the state on 8/1 even if not yet sold or transferred. If it’s here even if in dealer hands it’s lawfully possessed. If the law does not take effect until 10/26, I can continue to sell by pre 8/1 inventory and it’s good stuff and grandfathered.

So I think the governor won’t sign because the law is a cluster fck. That way she gets no sht on her hands for how bad it is and also doesn’t get the stigma of vetoing it. But we shall see…

 

[pastera]

That works if they are moderates and there's a perception of risk. Now that this state is run by moonbats they know that there is no risk.

People bombed their offices with calls at the beginning of all this, it quite obviously did nothing. Also a lot of these people just dodged meetings with constituents as well. They don't care. Remember these are moonbats not reasonable people a lot of them probably got moist over hearing the complaints because they knew they were over the target. Protest works better when there's semi reasonable people in the mix. These people are not reasonable.

Concur - when we pushed hard they simply took everything behind closed doors.
And because there is no conservative infrastructure to speak of, we can't even put out candidates as a show of force.

I would run but an legally prohibited - wouldn't win even if I did since mass conservatives are pretty much okay if the commies promise only to give them the tip.

 

[alan226]

If you register something that doesn't exist, that is a lie.

Not to get off track here, but if I have a complete registered rifle, take the upper off that and put it on another lower and register that, I can't go back and un-register the first rifle. I find a Gucci lower so I take the upper from that and put it on the Gucci lower and register that.

I now have 3 registered rifles with only 1 being functional.

Did I lie at any time?

How about if I build a 5.56 rifle and register that. I then want to try a .300blk so I take the upper off and swap it out. I now have a rifle that is registered as a 5.56 but is actually a .300blk

Did I lie at any time?

 

[xero2099]

Did we give up when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?

Queue the people who dont know what this is from and try to correct you

 

[Picton]

The only flaw in this plan is that it will take Years

That's not a flaw. Durable constitutional law always takes years.

Look at Roe: decided quickly, and with insufficient precedent. It was rickety for fifty years and then got overturned. I'd prefer ironclad law for my kids' benefit.

There’s a lot of free internet advice on “just do it” but that’s not what a good contingent of people are looking for. If there’s a way to do shit legally… it’s not helpful to tell people to sack up and disobey.

There's not a way to "do shit legally" while also following your Constitution's guarantees. You need to grok (to use a @SpaceCritter term) that the state's definition of "legally" is at odds with the US Constitution. Since the Constitution is the supreme law of the land, they are wrong in their definition. So disobeying them is legal. MLK would agree with that 100%, and so would Gandhi; this is our moment to be civil-rights champions, if we want to be.

If we don't? Go sell your "grandfathered" shit, because cognitively you've already admitted to yourself that it's not really protected.

Has anyone else looked into this?

No. Because there's no point: I know what it says and I know the .gov's intent. I disagree with that intent and I know they're acting unconstitutionally, which is why there's no point in "looking into this."

My government does not agree with my free exercise of my rights. It's that simple. That's all I need to know; they should expect me to act accordingly.

 

[Amputee Marksman]

I lost count of how many gun owners I met that are OK with restrictions, including NES members.

"I think more background checks are OK, for the children"
"I don't need 30 rounds, I am fine with 10 at the range"
"why do they allow people to buy that?"
"bump stocks are stupid, who cares"
"Red flag laws are not a bad idea, I know a person I don't think should be allowed to own a gun"
...

The list goes ON.

Spend a day at your local FFL and listen to people, you will hear a few every hour. Then go to the range and start conversations.

I spoke with a group of gun owners yesterday trying to explain to them some of the issues with H4885. They collectively as a group had no issues with the new training requirements. Some of them just plain didn't believe what I was saying and accused me of fear mongering. We as a group in MA are screwed.

 

[drgrant]

Concur - when we pushed hard they simply took everything behind closed doors.
And because there is no conservative infrastructure to speak of, we can't even put out candidates as a show of force.

I would run but an legally prohibited - wouldn't win even if I did since mass conservatives are pretty much okay if the commies promise only to give them the tip.

The whole shitshow with mass GOP and 'Disorganized bad Diehl" basically makes that apparatus useless.

 

[drgrant]

Not to get off track here, but if I have a complete registered rifle, take the upper off that and put it on another lower and register that, I can't go back and un-register the first rifle. I find a Gucci lower so I take the upper from that and put it on the Gucci lower and register that.

I now have 3 registered rifles with only 1 being functional.

Did I lie at any time?

How about if I build a 5.56 rifle and register that. I then want to try a .300blk so I take the upper off and swap it out. I now have a rifle that is registered as a 5.56 but is actually a .300blk

Did I lie at any time?

Does any of this matter? It probably won't.

 

[drgrant]

I spoke with a group of gun owners yesterday trying to explain to them some of the issues with H4885. They collectively as a group had no issues with the new training requirements. Some of them just plain didn't believe what I was saying and accused me of fear mongering. We as a group in MA are screwed.

Did you tell them "hey retards, after this is fully enabled you're not even going to be able to buy the most bog standard shotguns at places like even four seasons? "

But thus mindset you speak of, it is pervasive in a large % of LTC holders.

 

[scott-o]

Just catching up over a day of postings. Some thoughts.

If the governor does not sign, it passes on 7/28 as if signed. It takes EFFECT 90 days later.

All the provisions of the law take effect on the effective date of roughly 10/26/24 except for items that are delayed in the law relative to the effective date. For example section 121B takes effect no more than one year after effective date but once they have a new IT system. Some sections are delayed 18 months. All the delayed effective dates are at the end of the bill

8/1/24 is the grandfather date for lawfully possessed not being illegal to continue to possess even though they are now ASWs. Anyone who cares about 7/20/16 is saying that the enforcement notice is accurate and all your guns are already illegal. All the new 7/20/16 language does is make pre 7/20/16 stuff not copies or duplicates UNDER THE NEW LAW. Everything fails the feature test under the new law so who cares about copies or duplicates. Current law determines legality on 8/1/24. Period

Interesting is that lawfully possessed includes dealers. So anything in my inventory I can continue to sell after 8/1 if the law has taken effect and it will be grandfathered for the new owner when the law does take effect. The real key is everything needs to be in the state on 8/1 even if not yet sold or transferred. If it’s here even if in dealer hands it’s lawfully possessed. If the law does not take effect until 10/26, I can continue to sell by pre 8/1 inventory and it’s good stuff and grandfathered.

So I think the governor won’t sign because the law is a cluster fck. That way she gets no sht on her hands for how bad it is and also doesn’t get the stigma of vetoing it. But we shall see…

The "lawfully posessed" on 8/1 is what im cueing into here too.

Edge case: There are plenty of LEO owned "ASWs" that are non-compliant for the plebs currently but will be "lawfully posessed" on 8/1 -- what happens to those now? Free game?

Furthing my point that it only says was "lawfully possesed on 8/1" not by whom, irregardless of whom "registered" it or not, it's whos is possessing it on that date (borrow, finger f**king, etc). So long as it was on this date lawfully possessed, we good. Prove it wasn't.

The goal is clear, stop the growth of weapons in MA, they don't care about the water that's passed the bridge, the rest of technical jam-up potentials are just rounding errors to them. That's my take.

 

[Picton]

Oh, and @Picton for governor!

I'd be a disaster. I have no organizational skills. If there was a natural disaster or something, I'd probably screw the whole state over because I'd forget to apply to the feds or miss a deadline or something like that. I also have no desire to work in downtown Boston, lol. Screw that. I don't need the traffic.

 

[alan226]

Does any of this matter? It probably won't.

Probably not. Just goes to show what a shit show this bill is and how many permutations there are, all of which might be correct. Or not.

All by design....

 

[pastera]

View our .22 LR Complete Uppers | Bear Creek Arsenal

Grab the perfect .22 LR Complete uppers to shoot .22 LR from the AR platform and enjoy lower ammo costs, low recoil plinking, and varmint hunting. Save with BCA!

www.bearcreekarsenal.com

Just saying, maybe you want the option of having a bunch of different lower receiver options for your favorite 22lr upper.

The rimfire exclusion is in part (a) of the definition
The copies and duplicates is in part (f)
So a 22lr upper doesn't cure the copy or duplicate problem

 

[Marty McFly]

I'd be a disaster. I have no organizational skills. If there was a natural disaster or something, I'd probably screw the whole state over because I'd forget to apply to the feds or miss a deadline or something like that. I also have no desire to work in downtown Boston, lol. Screw that. I don't need the traffic.

You get aides and a driver. Just sayin'

 

[not new guy]

The rimfire exclusion is in part (a) of the definition
The copies and duplicates is in part (f)
So a 22lr upper doesn't cure the copy or duplicate problem

It should still help on an estoppel basis, no? And a 22lr-registered AR lower has to be close to last on the list of ARs that the state would ever go after given what the MA AG said publicly.

 

[wmassregulators]

I'm going to put this out there. When this passes, if I go into a gun shop that has a LEO only case or section... I'm leaving. Not one dime to shops that continue to sell things to PD that us plebs cannot own.
I hope you all do the same. No more police loopholes. If it's not safe for us to have, it isn't safe for them.