The Conference Committee has sent official language out - h.4885

[btnh6668]

Not putting you on the spot but what's the crux of the argument? I don't really do podcasts.

It had to do with general lawsuits not exactly suited to our situation here which could cause bad precedent. Having to be selective on which parts to go after since there are already dozens of cases on the books in other states waiting to be taken by the SC.

 

[drgrant]

I do think it's funny that Mass has 600,000 gun owners. Only 20,000 are GOAL members. The. People complain they don't do anything when the majority does not support them. Sounds logical. It's like listening to my business owner customers complain about the state of our economy yet make zero effort to vote.

You need to stop thinking that "gun owner means rkba supporter" it doesn't- tons of these people are libtards that don't really care about their rights.

If every gun owner actually cared about their rights then this wouldn't even be a question in this country anymore and antis would be considered the equivalent of child molesters by society.

 

[Picton]

Sitting on the sideline begging for permission to act and direction on where to go is how we ended up here in the first place.

 

[AJK129]

I do think it's funny that Mass has 600,000 gun owners. Only 20,000 are GOAL members. The. People complain they don't do anything when the majority does not support them. Sounds logical. It's like listening to my business owner customers complain about the state of our economy yet make zero effort to vote.

Maybe GOAL should be more vocal about what they actually do then instead of claiming they help quietly, while this shit still makes its way through

And I have supported them

 

[not new guy]

No, you don't need an answer, you need balls.
Decide now if you are willing to comply or attempt compliance - if so, then build it out and take the chance you will need to sell it off later but have a full preban on the upside.

Or if you're not interested in compliance just do whatever you want and take your chances.

Sitting on the sideline begging for permission to act and direction on where to go is how we ended up here in the first place.

I personally like the technically-compliant-but-probably-really-not-compliant route. Register that AR as a 22lr. Maybe even go to the step of buying a 22lr upper.

 

[btnh6668]

You need to stop thinking that "gun owner means rkba supporter" it doesn't- tons of these people are libtards that don't really care about their rights.

If every gun owner actually cared about their rights then this wouldn't even be a question in this country anymore and antis would be considered the equivalent of child molesters by society.

I don't think that but you are just extending my point. This is why these organizations can't accomplish what we are expecting. The left shows up.... we don't.

 

[pastera]

I like his advice but do get a little squeamish when it comes to putting a confession into an electronic database in the face of this, when they've made it clear that they think post-2016 ARs are illegal. But I guess play it out, right? Are they going to kick your door in? No. They can't prove where the gun is (could be stored out of state for example). Can they jam you up for it? How would they? They could say you had it in-state for the transfer at least but that's all pre-enactment so who cares. That leaves prosecuting you under the proclamation (not this new law), which they presumably won't do because it would result in a case that they're probably going to lose. So buy and build those ARs, right?

The possibility of people getting jammed up for stuff like this is a big part of why I have a problem with parties like GOALuida going on the record and saying all post-2016 ARs are illegal. It's not clear so why the hell would you concede the argument and empower the would-be prosecution?

For the legal battle ahead we must publically act as if post 16 guns are currently illegal.
That's not the same as them actually being illegal.
But for certain once this POS is active, pretty much all mag fed semis are banned going forward

 

[btnh6668]

Maybe GOAL should be more vocal about what they actually do then instead of claiming they help quietly, while this shit still makes its way through

And I have supported them

They do. On their emails, on their podcasts.....
Not to sound like a ass but do you want them to knock on your door and tell you? The info is there if you seek it.

 

[nm1]

This is the most critical question for which we need a definitive answer between now and 8/1. Too bad that I don't think we are going to get one.

It’s tricky, the logic, as with the Fed ban is that legally owned firearms must fail the new ‘assault-style firearm’ test in the law on 8/1 to be grandfathered.
One of the corner cases for ex. is that a pre-2016 unbuilt lower may not fail the test if it is exempt from being a copy/duplicate. Although, on closer reading it it would, since the pre-2016 requirement for exemption from the copy-duplicate language is for it to be registered (presumably an FA10’d build prior to 7-20-16) so and unbuilt lower then would fail the text as not exempt and an FA10’d build would fail the feature test.

 

[not new guy]

For the legal battle ahead we must publicly act as if post 16 guns are currently illegal.

I think the better play is for the guidance from our side to warn gunowners that the state views things one way without actually conceding that the state's view is legally correct.

 

[AJK129]

They do. On their emails, on their podcasts.....
Not to sound like a ass but do you want them to knock on your door and tell you? The info is there if you seek it.

Thats my point though, if you have to seek it its not being pushed enough. Not saying thats right, but thats how life is and why people arent supporting them the way you want

 

[Lowbird]

Maybe GOAL should be more vocal about what they actually do then instead of claiming they help quietly, while this shit still makes its way through

And I have supported them

This.
We've "compromised" and "in good faith" our collective ass off a cliff.

We need less education of those that would use that information as a weapon. The only education they need is in court when they get bitch slapped into the real world.

The cute and cuddly has gotten us here. Maybe it's time for a harsher tact.

 

[pastera]

So hypothetically speaking, what is the general consensus on lowers not built, but purchased before 8/1 grandfather date? I understand under current law a stripped lower is not a firearm but hypothetically, if I had 3-4 stripped lowers that are not going to be built before 8/1, would it be recommended to EFA-10 in an attempt to comply with grandfathering date or not? I understand that there is no definitive correct answer.. just wondering what every one else is doing.. semi-pantshitter, forum lurker here.

There is no downside to a serial build, registration, then breakdown of you plan on complying with the registration requirements in the new law.
The reason I am saying to build is that the process leaves evidence that the lower did have parts installed at one time so they can't say you registered a non-fireable item.
If you plan on living life as an unconvicted felon I'm waiting, then don't add them to the system

 

[drgrant]

I don't think that but you are just extending my point. This is why these organizations can't accomplish what we are expecting. The left shows up.... we don't.

I don't think you really understand there is no "we". "we" is like 20,000 people tops. This is a raw demographic problem not just people being lazy. The majority of LTC holders in mass are useless politically. Guns are toys for them at best. These are people who gush about how friendly the licensing officer was instead of processing the fact that the entire process is a form of infringement.

 

[Broc Tuah]

If it's any consolation it's abundantly clear that the legislature really didn't listen to anybody from rkba land when they wrote this pile of garbage.

Basically for those watching that thread, the MA legislators are the equivalent of moredweebs at this point, talking to them is like trying to have a dialog with something that has the IQ of a warm pile of steaming shit.

Because "politicians" ... they wanted to pass SOMETHING.

Doing nothing doesn't give them bragging rights when running to be re-elected.

 

[not new guy]

I don't think you really understand there is no "we". "we" is like 20,000 people tops. This is a raw demographic problem not just people being lazy. The majority of LTC holders in mass are useless politically. Guns are toys for them at best. These are people who gush about how friendly the licensing officer was instead of processing the fact that the entire process is a form of infringement.

Go to your average MA gun club and ask the regulars sitting around the table in the clubhouse what they think of FPC's merchandise:



That should be enough to confirm what you're saying here.

 

[xero2099]

You need to stop thinking that "gun owner means rkba supporter" it doesn't- tons of these people are libtards that don't really care about their rights.

If every gun owner actually cared about their rights then this wouldn't even be a question in this country anymore and antis would be considered the equivalent of child molesters by society.

exactly the population of MA is roughly 7million so that makes 8% of the total population are gun owners and out of that percentage how many people actuality care about their rights?

Maybe GOAL should be more vocal about what they actually do then instead of claiming they help quietly, while this shit still makes its way through

And I have supported them

with out GOAL things would be 10 times worse they do their job

 

[pastera]

If that's true we may have already been on the other side of a big favorable win in court but for GOAL's involvement. I mean if we're talking about theoretical would-be situations...

Not true - how many other places have been living under the same or worse than what is coming while waiting for the courts to clear out the backlog of 2a constitutional questions?
This is the best time for this shit to come through since there are several good cases close to being ripe for SCOTUS cert in the next session.

 

[AJK129]

Go to your average MA gun club and ask the regulars sitting around the table in the clubhouse what they think of FPC's merchandise: fpc firearms merch - Google Search

That should be enough to confirm what you're saying here.

Merch stores down in our time of need

 

[not new guy]

Merch stores down in our time of need

They have some great tees on other sites:

 

[AJK129]

with out GOAL things would be 10 times worse they do their job

Sure, my point is they need to push and advertise this better if they want more support

 

[AJK129]

They have some great tees on other sites:

View attachment 900909


View attachment 900910

Im happy with my emotional support "f*** you. No" flag

 

[kalash]

In my opinion, Trying to "educate" legislators is a huge mistake.

Agreed. They don't care about the facts or the truth - their party says "guns are bad" so they repeat it. The only reason they would ever be even slightly curious about how guns work what "AWs" are, why standard cap mags are good to have, etc is just to have an easier time banning them. I've never understood handing over information to your enemy that you know they'll use against you.

 

[AJK129]

Agreed. They don't care about the facts or the truth - their party says "guns are bad" so they repeat it. The only reason they would ever be even slightly curious about how guns work what "AWs" are, why standard cap mags are good to have, etc is just to have an easier time banning them. I've never understood handing over information to your enemy that you know they'll use against you.

Because people keep thinking these bans are out of ignorance and not something larger

 

[LuvDog]

Well on the bright side, this month's give-a-way may end on time or early.

 

[JMI13]

Bolded part: by whom?

The answer depends on who you believe, and only you can answer that.

Recommended was the wrong word, just trying to gauge what others are hypothetically doing if they had purchased stripped lowers prior to 8/1. Everyone is just saying grow balls or do what you believe… trying to see what others may have actually done or are planning to do.. hypothetically….

There is no downside to a serial build, registration, then breakdown of you plan on complying with the registration requirements in the new law.
The reason I am saying to build is that the process leaves evidence that the lower did have parts installed at one time so they can't say you registered a non-fireable item.
If you plan on living life as an unconvicted felon I'm waiting, then don't add them to the system

After 8/1 the “fires a projectile” requirement is void and frames/lowers are considered firearms though, correct? Again I understand the language used is designed to trip everyone up. Just trying to gauge what others are planning to do.. hypothetically.

 

[Broc Tuah]

Because people keep thinking these bans are out of ignorance and not something larger

Those people have low IQ.

 

[pastera]

Do you think the legislators are looking at GOAL membership numbers before deciding whether to take them seriously and consider their input or not? Is 60k members going to make a difference vs 6k members? I'm not convinced it matters.

Given the religious zealotry exhibited by the MA legislature, does a group that's trying to rein in new laws help or hurt? The legislature is limited only by considerations for what might stand up to legal scrutiny, so to the extent GOAL is talking about that sort of stuff are we better with laws that consider GOAL's input or laws that the legislature pulls out of their asses all on their own?

Actually they do care.
If all 20k members showed up at the statehouse AND went inside once a year at GOAL's request then all this shit would stop.
But a good portion of those that show up to the common won't make the effort to go in the building and just speak to whatever politician is around at the time.
Years ago we did put together a grass roots call list that actually took action with it'stime2a that actually got results.
How do I know - I had politicians call me back after messages left mentioning starting another call campaign. And that was only several hundred people on a call chain causing then problems.

 

[alan226]

Wasn't intending to get into a pissing match but here we are...

You say that harassment orders are a lot easier to get. There is a huge difference between petitioning for and obtaining. Anyone can petition for anything. I'll guess you understand the entire process on how this works so you'd know that the first thing that you get when you petition is a date to appear...

At that point, you then go face-to-face with the accuser before a magistrate or judge. The magistrate or judge then hears all the facts at hand and then makes a determination (usually never on that same day unless an extreme circumstance).

If, for whatever reasons there may be, the court sees that it is necessary to issue a harassment or restraining order, then the order is signed off and forwarded to the local department for them to serve in hand.

As of now, if a harassment or restraining order is granted, the LTC is seized and suspended pending further investigation and any firearms are also seized.... this process is not new.

I am not LE but I have plenty of friends and family as I'm sure you do who are. I'm just another guy who works a lot and gets paid a lot less for what I do... If you feel so strongly about the special treatment and favors they receive, go stand in front of the state house and voice your opinion. Let me know what time and I'll meet you there.

Edit: Here's the law as it stands now... Under the section "A prohibited person shall be a person who...," reference section (vi)... MGL Chapter 131

"(vi) is currently subject to: (A) an order for suspension or surrender issued pursuant to sections 3B or 3C of chapter 209A or a similar order issued by another jurisdiction; (B) a permanent or temporary protection order issued pursuant to said chapter 209A or a similar order issued by another jurisdiction, including any order described in 18 U.S.C. 922(g)(8); (C) a permanent or temporary harassment prevention order issued pursuant to chapter 258E or a similar order issued by another jurisdiction; or (D) an extreme risk protection order issued pursuant to sections 131R to 131X, inclusive, or a similar order issued by another jurisdiction;"

This language in this new bill is nothing new it's just meant to scare people into thinking something is happening.

In my experience, HPO's ARE easier to obtain. I had an issue with a crazy neighbor. Yes, he was literally crazy. On a Monday, I had an incident with him on my property. The police came and gave him a verbal trespass. The police told me to go to court the next day (Tues) to get an HPO. No appointment necessary. I went on 9:00 am Tues, saw the clerk, filled out some paperwork and told me to go to the courtroom and wait for me to be called. 30 minutes later, I was called before a judge. I explained what was going on and he issued me a 14 day order on the spot and told me there would be another hearing in 2 weeks. I was in and out of there in less than an hour with the order in hand. At no time was the other party in court.

The police then served the crazy guy a day later to go see the judge in 2 weeks. I show up at court 2 weeks later, crazy guy doesn't show, so the judge gives me a 1 year HPO that needs to be renewed every year.


YMMV

 

[Grendizer138]

I took selfies holding my lowers by the “welcome to Massachusetts” sign.