The Conference Committee has sent official language out - h.4885

[Mark from ?]

View attachment 900923
FFL’s are so screwed.

Ummm....like the douchebags writing this in the law didn't know this would happen.

Of course they did. Even if litigation is filed over it, they knew shipping guns here would immediately stop on 8/1 because carriers would stop shipping because of liability and that their trucks and drivers could not support the text of the law.

No carrier is gonna retrofit all their trucks, and retrain all their drivers to ship guns to MA.

No one is getting anything shipped in here dudes.....MA compliant or not......

On a bright note....I could see the court acting more quickly or a stay order because of this issue.

 

[maltc]

These restrictions not only eliminate carry usage, but they also effectively eliminate their usage for in-home self-defense. I suspect that use case might be an avenue to attack this portion of the law.

Can you elaborate where you find wording that imply cannot be used for home defense? Section V appears to be in regards to transport.

 

[pastera]

A plain reading of that part of the bill pretty much reaffirms what cgw is saying there. Range use only. Must be locked up and unloaded otherwise.

Extremely retarded.

The "or" limits the locked container requirements to transport
131C - carrying firearms in a vehicle
131L - weapons stored or kept by owner (safe storage)

Also you can't transfer a LCFD to another resident but you can drive out of state and hand it to a non-resident who then hands it to another resident who locks it up and drives home.

 

[nm1]

Rereading 131M (c) seems that the language still allows prebans to come into Mass.
(C) Excludes prebans from the ban on "large capacity feeding devices" from (a) if on private property, a shooting range, gunsmith or if locked up in transport.

So as long as you lock them up, you can bring as many as you want into Mass since all of (a) is excluded which includes the ban on importation.

Looks like it. As long as it’s pre-94 and purchased/taken possession of out of state/transported locked up. Just no in-state transfers.

 

[drgrant]

The "or" limits the locked container requirements to transport
131C - carrying firearms in a vehicle
131L - weapons stored or kept by owner (safe storage)

Also you can't transfer a LCFD to another resident but you can drive out of state and hand it to a non-resident who then hands it to another resident who locks it up and drives home.

Yes, and its kind of hilarious the unenforceable stuff in this bill.... "if a tree falls...."

 

[MAJoe]

Or in some of our cases, an approved Form 1 prior to 8/1 proves lawfully obtained prior to that date. No EFA10 needed.

If there’s a prerequisite to have an FA10 for something under state law, the federal compliance doesn’t meet that standard.

 

[LuvDog]

I honestly can't wait for people like that to go try and buy a new bird gun and then get punched in the dick. The one upside to this shit sandwich is that even the casuals are boned for once.

Most of them won't even know that the majority of LGS are out of business. These are big box store shoppers. They most likely shop at BassPro and Cabelas

 

[Palladin]

She will pick whoever Obama tells her to pick.

just read Barry isn't supporting her, doesn't think she can win. Wanted Joe to pick Gabby's husband, and he didn't

 

[pupchow]

Most of them won't even know that the majority of LGS are out of business. These are big box store shoppers. They most likely shop at BassPro and Cabelas

If this "bare shelves" thing happens post enactment, that could make for some sensational news coverage.

 

[Darksideblues42]

One has to be a “Danger to themselves or others” to be sectioned: Active suicidal ideation with a plan, homicidal ideation, and severe psychosis are what generally land you in a psych ward. I worked in psych for a good part of my life. Some hospitals abused the system and had a reputation for sectioning people for feeling “blue” or “depressed”. This was likely due to fear of liability if someone killed themselves after being cleared by psych. Most therapists use sec 12 as a last resort and will do anything to keep clients out of a psych hospital.

He apparently made the statement that he was "looking forward to being reunited with his family someday" and that was taken as being a danger to himself.

He was an only child and a devout Catholic, so the concept of an afterlife reunion is pretty normal for him.

 

[Picton]

just read Barry isn't supporting her, doesn't think she can win. Wanted Joe to pick Gabby's husband, and he didn't

https://www.politico.com/news/2024/07/25/obama-support-kamala-harris-00171132

Obama's inner circle signals 44th president firmly behind Harris despite not saying so publicly

Former President Obama's history of presidential endorsements and supporters rallying around Vice President Kamala Harris indicate he supports her run despite not outright endorsing her.

www.foxnews.com

He's just waiting for polling, which won't be long in coming.

Once upon a time, his choice was "endorse Harris or endorse some other candidate." Now, it's "endorse Harris or endorse no one."

I don't see that second thing happening.

 

[GL2020]

Long story short, I know someone personally who was a involuntary victim of a section 12 and was hospitalized but let out within 3 days after the evaluation was complete and was never put on any medication or anything. According to the AFTs, "committed to a mental institution definition." Is this person still fine? Cause it seems that way to me, or is this going to be an issue for her going forward? She has had her LTC for many years now without any issues. I'm sure some of you will have better insight.

"Committed to a mental institution. A formal commitment of a person to a mental institution by a court, board, commission, or other lawful authority. The term includes a commitment to a mental institution involuntarily. The term includes commitments for other reasons, such as for drug use. The term does not include a person in a mental institution for observation or a voluntary admission to a mental institution.

EXCEPTION NICS Improvement Amendments Act of 2007: A person who has been adjudicated as a mental defective or committed to a mental institution in a state proceeding is not prohibited by the adjudication or commitment if the person has been granted relief by the adjudicating/committing state pursuant to a qualifying mental health relief from disabilities program. Also a person who has been adjudicated as a mental defective or committed to a mental institution by a department or agency of the Federal Government is not prohibited by the adjudication or commitment if either: (a) the person's adjudication or commitment was set-aside or expunged by the adjudicating/committing agency; (b) the person has been fully released or discharged from all mandatory treatment, supervision, or monitoring by the agency; (c) the person was found by the agency to no longer suffer from the mental health condition that served as the basis of the initial adjudication/commitment; or (d) the adjudication or commitment, respectively is based solely on a medical finding of disability, without an opportunity for a hearing by a court, board, commission, or other lawful authority, and the person has not been adjudicated as a mental defective consistent with section 922(g)(4) of title 18, United States Code; or (e) the person was granted relief from the adjudicating/committing agency pursuant to a qualified mental health relief from disabilities program. Persons who fall within one of the above exceptions should mark "no" in the applicable box. This exception to an adjudication or commitment by a federal department or agency does not apply to any person who was adjudicated to be not guilty by reason of insanity, based on a lack of mental responsibility, or found incompetent to stand trial in any criminal case or under the Uniform Code of Military Justice".

That is not a commitment. It's a common misconception. A commitment involves a judge/board and is a LEGAL process.

the 3 Day (72-hold) is considered a formal request for evaluation at a psych facillity. After 3 days, the hospital can seek a formal commitment (if they want to leave), release the person, or ask them to stay voluntarily (and that is not a commitment, it becomes a voluntary stay).

 

[DJBrad]

Ummm....like the douchebags writing this in the law didn't know this would happen.

Of course they did. Even if litigation is filed over it, they knew shipping guns here would immediately stop on 8/1 because carriers would stop shipping because of liability and that their trucks and drivers could not support the text of the law.

No carrier is gonna retrofit all their trucks, and retrain all their drivers to ship guns to MA.

No one is getting anything shipped in here dudes.....MA compliant or not......

On a bright note....I could see the court acting more quickly or a stay order because of this issue.

I haven’t yet seen the outcome for manufacturer’s repairs or replacements as of yet (could be lost in the thread). This could be a big problem if one needs their long gun or pistol repaired under warranty and they cannot use FedEx or UPS due to the locked container clause in the new law that infringes on interstate commerce.

 

[LuvDog]

If this "bare shelves" thing happens post enactment, that could make for some sensational news coverage.

Maybe, but as always we need to start using their tactics of discrimination against them. These new laws prevent people of color and lower economic groups access to a fundamental right that is protected by the constitution. That's about the only way to claw back at this.

 

[G4Y4HK]

Those of you still wanting an AR after 8/1, could you still potentially get a pump action?

Sporting PAR 16" 223 | TROY Industries

Sporting PAR 16" 223

worldoftroy.com

 

[chris_1001]

Looks like it. As long as it’s pre-94 and purchased/taken possession of out of state/transported locked up. Just no in-state transfers.

My Trunk locks (and I have a pin code for a further "valet mode" that locks the trunk and renders the key useless)

 

[pastera]

If there’s a prerequisite to have an FA10 for something under state law, the federal compliance doesn’t meet that standard.

There is a grey area within the 7 day grace period prescribed in 140 sec 128b
You legally possess the firearm but it's not required to have the acquisition reported in the portal for 7 days.

 

[pastera]

Those of you still wanting an AR after 8/1, could you still potentially get a pump action?

Sporting PAR 16" 223 | TROY Industries

Sporting PAR 16" 223

worldoftroy.com

No - the receiver is a banned assault-style firearm all on its own since it's compatible with a "copy or duplicate"

 

[alx]

UPS/fedex shipping should not be a problem - just use a combination lock case and share the pin via email or whatever with the recipient. Now if sellers would entertain that- is another story I guess.

 

[kevin9]

Can you elaborate where you find wording that imply cannot be used for home defense? Section V appears to be in regards to transport.

I'll admit it's fuzzy/unclear, and I'd be glad to be wrong. The question is whether the phrase "... ; provided, that the large capacity feeding device is stored unloaded and secured in a locked container in accordance with1542 sections 131C and 131L." only applies to section (v) (i.e. transportation), or to all the sections (a-v) which would include on-premises possession.

The English is unclear because it follows a semicolon. If it followed a comma then it clearly would only apply to section (v), but because the sections are separated by semicolons one could interpret it as equal to and thus applying to all sections.

Also confusing the issue is the reference to 131L. 131C covers safe transportation. As far as I can tell nothing in 131L applies to transportation. If this prohibition was meant to only apply to section v then referencing 131C alone would have been sufficient. Referencing 131L appears to indicate an intent to apply the prohibition to all locations where possession is allowed (sections a a-v).

Again, I grant that it's unclear, and folks should do what their willing to be comfortable with, but I'm going to suggest that the intent of the legislature was to only allow such super-killy frighteningly large magazines to be unsecured and loaded when in actual, very limited "legal" use.

 

[Foudre]

Those of you still wanting an AR after 8/1, could you still potentially get a pump action?

Sporting PAR 16" 223 | TROY Industries

Sporting PAR 16" 223

worldoftroy.com

That abomination probably exists because of all these illegal "laws" that politicians and their lawyers keep trying to push on constitutionally protected citizens, just like its ugly pinned mag cousin.

 

[Beretta92FS]

If you think “purchases or obtains” applies to you assembling a gun, keep doing FA10s to abide by the current law. But “registering” now to abide by a future law is a total non sequitur.

So just to be clear, is the consensus understanding that there is no legal requirement to FA10 a new firearm that a person assembles themselves, because the firearm was not purchased or obtained, but built ?

 

[Picton]

That abomination probably exists because of all these illegal "laws" that politicians and their lawyers keep trying to push on constitutionally protected citizens.

Speaking of which... coming soon, the LVRB from Bond Arms.

 

[doolz]

In my experience, HPO's ARE easier to obtain. I had an issue with a crazy neighbor. Yes, he was literally crazy. On a Monday, I had an incident with him on my property. The police came and gave him a verbal trespass. The police told me to go to court the next day (Tues) to get an HPO. No appointment necessary. I went on 9:00 am Tues, saw the clerk, filled out some paperwork and told me to go to the courtroom and wait for me to be called. 30 minutes later, I was called before a judge. I explained what was going on and he issued me a 14 day order on the spot and told me there would be another hearing in 2 weeks. I was in and out of there in less than an hour with the order in hand. At no time was the other party in court.

The police then served the crazy guy a day later to go see the judge in 2 weeks. I show up at court 2 weeks later, crazy guy doesn't show, so the judge gives me a 1 year HPO that needs to be renewed every year.


YMMV

That's pretty much how it is....

That being said, the temporary order that was 14 days is not one that will cause someone to lose their license or firearms.

If the judge determines that, after the "official" hearing to show cause, an order is warranted, then that is where the law comes into play.

But to agree with your point, it is that easy to "petition." Lets say that lunatic showed up for court when he was supposed to and you two duked it out in front of the judge? More likely than not, he would have lost anyway. I guess to land my plane, the onus lies on the courts and the judges to make these determinations.

 

[deerdad]

I would much rather learn to play Fizzbin than try to understand this crap.

 

[cstockwell]

Would a dealer in MA who has given up the MA licenses but kept the federal FFL be bound to the laws in this bill regarding not being able to sell on gunbroker, having to register guns on portal for inventory etc? There are dealers in MA that only have the FFL and do not sell to any MA residents? Curious as to how that plays out.

 

[G4Y4HK]

Those of us in still free states in northern New England should be preparing for Madam President's ban hammer coming in 2025. Executive orders to ban all ARs, 7 round mag limits, red flag laws becoming the law of the land.

 

[silversquirrel]

Those of us in still free states in northern New England should be preparing for Madam President's ban hammer coming in 2025. Executive orders to ban all ARs, 7 round mag limits, red flag laws becoming the law of the land.

Why should MA have all the fun!

 

[alan226]

That's pretty much how it is....

That being said, the temporary order that was 14 days is not one that will cause someone to lose their license or firearms.

If the judge determines that, after the "official" hearing to show cause, an order is warranted, then that is where the law comes into play.

But to agree with your point, it is that easy to "petition." Lets say that lunatic showed up for court when he was supposed to and you two duked it out in front of the judge? More likely than not, he would have lost anyway. I guess to land my plane, the onus lies on the courts and the judges to make these determinations.

Your post said than a temporary HPO triggered the LTC suspension.

Is this accurate?

 

[center442]

this goes against everything I learned in Schoolhouse Rock... it is enacted if she DOESN"T sign it?

View attachment 900670

Yes. It gives the executive the ability to honestly say that a law/act passed without their approval.

Even if the Governor were to veto it, the reality is that the legislature would have little trouble overriding the veto.

If the PRM follows the Federal model, then the bill would die with the Governor doing nothing, IF THE LEGISLATURE ADJOURNS before the 10 days elapse (called a "pocket veto").