The Conference Committee has sent official language out - h.4885

[MaroonedinMA]

I think it will be interesting to see how this plays out as I heard elsewhere (and who knows what is and isn't accurate) is that all FFLs can only sell to someone out of state what they know is "allowed" in the state where they are licensed, and since its unknown with there being no roster for long guns yet, out of state dealers may just halt all sales until it is established and it is clearly defined what is, and isn't on the list.

Again, no connection between what is allowed (anything that doesn’t violate ASW ban or form 1 rules, etc) and what can be sold legally by dealers post enactment (apparently only on-roster pistols, in the absence of long gun rosters).

A 10/22, for instance, cannot be sold by a dealer in MA past the day the new law takes effect, 90 days from signing. It can, be legally possessed as it isn’t an ASW, which should satisfy most out of state dealers, if you are standing in front of them. When the law talks about a long gun being legal to own in one’s state, it’s not a referendum on whether or not dealers are selling them commonly, but whether or not it meets the sort of requirements I outlined in the first paragraph.

TL : DR pant shitting OOS dealers will always be around, but thoughtful dealers who understand the law will continue to sell the 10/22, et al in FTF sales OOS.

 

[42!]

Pretty sure the law defines everything as assault weapons, but grants exemption to the ban on possession, selling, and transferring if they were lawfully possessed on 8/1 by an LTC holder.

Every detacheable-mag semi-auto AR I know of fails the new features test. So they are all AWs, regardless of copy/duplicate interpretation.

I agree that they’re attempting to make 7/20 mean something, but I’m not sure they actually did. They didn’t outright say in the law that any C&Ds possessed post 7/20 were unlawfully possessed. Because they can’t retroactively make something illegal in the past.

So yes, the law is saying all ARs after 7/20 are now (or once the bill goes into effect in 90 days) considered copies and duplicates. But that doesn’t change their lawful possession on 8/1 using current law. Therefore the Section 131M (b) AW exemption applies to them the same as all the other ARs that are also now defined as assault weapons.

I don’t think the state cares if all text in the bill has meaning or not. They clearly don’t care too much about SCOTUS rulings.

How is all this affected when the AR is also C&R?

And this is the definition in 121:
View attachment 902460

The “qualities not ordinarily associated with firearms” seems awfully restrictive to me. Does that exclude “normal” firearms over 50 years old?

A C&R firearm is either 50 years old, OR is of special interest.

 

[Yota79]

View: https://youtu.be/vJEwo_gwO9M?si=QXhG8z-kP3pqZUop

 

[wcorey]

So does the new law retain the transaction portal? Will the EFA10 system be effectively obsoleted after 10/23/24 or stay until replaced by the new registry?

 

[steve8140]

Is anyone up to speed on the non-resident parts of this bill?

obviously we can’t buy guns in MA regardless but we can still posess guns with a LTC. Does that mean any guns we bring or carry need to be registered? Can non residents bring and use preban mags or are our prebans completely worthless once this takes effect.

I know it’s very early and there’s a lot to be worked out to understand.

I’ve already sent close to 40 preban mags to people in MA, still have more and was going to keep a few for myself to use when I visit. Otherwise I’ll send those as well.

 

[Blooglo]

So, in 131M: (says possessed, not registered)

(b) Subsection (a) shall not apply to an assault-style firearm lawfully possessed within the
commonwealth on August 1, 2024, by an owner in possession of a license to carry issued under
section 131 or by a holder of a license to sell under section 122; provided, that the assault-style
firearm shall be registered in accordance with section 121B and serialized in accordance with
section 121C.

Then:

Assault-style firearm”, any firearm which is:

that has a receiver that is the same as or interchangeable with the receiver of an
enumerated firearm in said clauses (d) and (e); provided further, that the firearm shall not be
considered a copy or duplicate of a firearm identified in clauses (d) and (e) if sold, owned and
registered prior to July 20, 2016
(g) “Assault-style firearm”

And this:

“Firearm”, a stun gun, pistol, revolver, rifle, shotgun, sawed-off shotgun, large capacity
firearm, assault-style firearm and machine gun, loaded or unloaded, which is designed to or may
readily be converted to expel a shot or bullet; the frame or receiver of any such firearm or the
unfinished frame or receiver of any such firearm; provided, however, that “firearm” shall not
include any antique firearm or permanently inoperable firearm


So I have a unfinished AR15 receiver that I bought after 2016 and do legally possess on 8/1/24. It is now considered not banned under 131M. The definition of Assault-style firearm is any "firearm" that has a receiver of an AR15. The definition of Firearm includes any unfinished receiver. So, my Unfinished, none FA10'd and legally possessed stripped receiver for an AR15 can now be built up into a 6 inch pistol with a folding brace and a flash hider. I will then have to register it down the road when that system is created.

Hmmm the definition of “firearm” seems to include airguns.

 

[LakeTrout]

Is anyone up to speed on the non-resident parts of this bill?

obviously we can’t buy guns in MA regardless but we can still posess guns with a LTC. Does that mean any guns we bring or carry need to be registered? Can non residents bring and use preban mags or are our prebans completely worthless once this takes effect.

I know it’s very early and there’s a lot to be worked out to understand.

I’ve already sent close to 40 preban mags to people in MA, still have more and was going to keep a few for myself to use when I visit. Otherwise I’ll send those as well.

I’m not a lawyer but I think the parts of the law that pertain to possession don’t discern between resident and non resident. I could be wrong, but I’d be playing it safe and following the law as a resident would have to. The one interesting thing is that it seems to allow carrying in a vehicle for non residents. So if you’re driving near the border and end up in MA by accident or detour you’ll be okay as long as you don’t get out of your car while carrying.

 

[hennypenny]

What notices are they required to publish?

Sorry. Not attacking you for a valid question. I'm just not the one who knows the correct answer.

 

[LakeTrout]

Sorry. Not attacking you for a valid question. I'm just not the one who knows the correct answer.

I guess what I’m mostly wondering is if they have to do anything more than they’ve done. As awful as the law is and as awful as the wording is, they’ve signed it into law. I’m not sure they need to provide notices. And ignorance of the law doesn’t absolve one of his or her responsibility to abide by it. I’m sure they’re hoping to nail some good citizens on those grounds alone.

 

[Dr. Claw]

Again, no connection between what is allowed (anything that doesn’t violate ASW ban or form 1 rules, etc) and what can be sold legally by dealers post enactment (apparently only on-roster pistols, in the absence of long gun rosters).

A 10/22, for instance, cannot be sold by a dealer in MA past the day the new law takes effect, 90 days from signing. It can, be legally possessed as it isn’t an ASW, which should satisfy most out of state dealers, if you are standing in front of them. When the law talks about a long gun being legal to own in one’s state, it’s not a referendum on whether or not dealers are selling them commonly, but whether or not it meets the sort of requirements I outlined in the first paragraph.

TL : DR pant shitting OOS dealers will always be around, but thoughtful dealers who understand the law will continue to sell the 10/22, et al in FTF sales OOS.

ok that makes sense, not sure if I have dealt with any of the thoughtful dealers...

And for anything that has to be shipped from an out of state dealer to In-State that then is on hold until the roster is established for Long guns and then only limited to what would then be on the roster?

 

[not new guy]

The notices help them if/when they start charging people.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

RI allows short stops required for travel (from what I understand, I haven't kept up to see any changes)
Therefore, RI is more permissive AFAIK

The RI law wording is pretty close to "without intent to delay or detain oneself" and makes no mention of stops. That detail is left for the system to sort out.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

Glocks are on the roster too. It’s the AG secret requirements that end up banning them. I don't know if someone will have to comply with those requirements and if those are needed to be adhered to PMFs.

https://www.mass.gov/doc/approved-firearms-roster-june-2024/download

The AGs list declares that a "purgeyor of firearms" is committing an "unfair and deceptive trade practice" if they sell a Glock. A person making a PMF or private seller is not a "purveyor of firearms' under the definition contained in 940 CMR 16.00

The AG's claim was "no loaded chamber indicator". Draper/Boudrie v. AG was heard in the First Circuit, with Judge Kennedy (yes, that Judge Kennedy) granting summary judgement to the AG basically saying "All AGs claims accepted as fact; all plaintiff's claims rejected" stating it was "obvious" from the instruction manual that Glock lacked such a feature. Cuz Guns.

 

[LakeTrout]

The notices help them if/when they start charging people.

Are the notices things they mail you? How does that work?

 

[not new guy]

I assume they’ll mail notices out. That’s how they’ve done it in the past.

 

[LakeTrout]

I assume they’ll mail notices out. That’s how they’ve done it in the past.

Wow. That’s interesting. Is that just for licensed gun owners or do they mail it to everyone? I forgot they’d have a list of you because you have to have a license for ownership. I was drawing a blank on how they’d have a list of you.

 

[Whutmeworry]

I'll bet they can drive straight through.

That's why I don't think the Interstate Commerce thing will matter much, as far as injunctions or lawsuits. I think the carriers will just take the path of least resistance, announce they'll stop deliveries to MA addresses, and then just motor straight on through to northern New England.

Assuming no common carrier is willing to comply with this new law, does that not still have the effect of total infringement on 2A for all MA residents since eventually NO new guns will be be available to be sold by licensed dealers in the state, ever?

 

[not new guy]

Just license holders get it I’m sure.

 

[Picton]

Assuming no common carrier is willing to comply with this new law, does that not still have the effect of total infringement on 2A for all MA residents since eventually NO new guns will be be available to be sold by licensed dealers in the state, ever?

The law gives shippers the ability to continue business here; it’d be the shippers’ choice not to.

 

[MaroonedinMA]

ok that makes sense, not sure if I have dealt with any of the thoughtful dealers...

And for anything that has to be shipped from an out of state dealer to In-State that then is on hold until the roster is established for Long guns and then only limited to what would then be on the roster?

I believe that is correct as you would need a MA FFL to transfer it to you and therein lies the problem as they cannot transfer off-roster items 90 days past signing.

Best thing to do would be to check out some of the NH/VT/RI dealers on this forum and ask if they will sell to you FTF, thus bypassing the MA FFL

This requires more legwork but until the long gun roster is extant, this is where we find ourselves.

Remember: ILOVEANAL or IANAL or whatever that phrase is…

 

[BroncoAZ]

I was planning on purchasing a newspaper on 8/1 and taking photographs with the newspaper and my LTC-A and the serial number of the needing to prove grandfathered items in the picture to prove possession on 8/1/2024. I moved in from out of state in 2020 and wasn’t required to register anything brought in when I initially moved, so unless I go enter them in the current portal I have no record of ownership in MA at a specific time. Good idea, bad idea?

 

[Rob Boudrie]

Assuming no common carrier is willing to comply with this new law, does that not still have the effect of total infringement on 2A for all MA residents since eventually NO new guns will be be available to be sold by licensed dealers in the state, ever?

Federal law and DOT regulations regarding common carriers may, emphasis may, provide some protection from state law. This is why states, for example, are not required to have explicit exceptions for common carriers in their law regarding regulated products (Controlled substances, firearms,, etc.).

I believe that is correct as you would need a MA FFL to transfer it to you and therein lies the problem as they cannot transfer off-roster items 90 days past signing.

May a dealer legally transfer a stripped frame for a handgun that is on the roster once the new law is passes?

Nobody really knows for sure, and anyone who claims to is just guessing.

 

[EJFudd]

So Guida's posts on Facebook are nothing more than scare tactics? I’m inexperienced in all this, forgive the ignorance.

I’ve stopped paying attention to him. I’ve often wondered how many people he put in jail for constitutionally protected 2A activity.

I think it's good to at least be aware of what Guida is saying. At this point, he is sort of the de facto spokesperson for our legislators and clueless AG Andrea... or at least as close as we are going to get at this time. Doesn't mean that he is right. It also doesn't mean that his advice to us is good or practical. It's just one man's opinion... i.e., that of a timid, cautious 2A lawyer who has a long record of giving out advice many consider over-the-top cautious at the possible expense of creating misinformation and undue fear.

 

[btnh6668]

Owned lawfully ON 8/1. If you bought before and STILL own ON 8/1 they are lawfully owned ON 8/1. You are fine.

I guess the grey area isn't the owned part, it's what they will consider "lawfully owned". By they I mean the courts. As is they already misinterpret the constitution. Why would we think any different in this situation. I get that you are only explaining the text as written, I'm just being more realistic of how they will see this in court.

 

[Dr. Claw]

I believe that is correct as you would need a MA FFL to transfer it to you and therein lies the problem as they cannot transfer off-roster items 90 days past signing.

Best thing to do would be to check out some of the NH/VT/RI dealers on this forum and ask if they will sell to you FTF, thus bypassing the MA FFL

This requires more legwork but until the long gun roster is extant, this is where we find ourselves.

Remember: ILOVEANAL or IANAL or whatever that phrase is…

Thanks the one I was looking for is only sold by by a dealer in Penn and depending on how the roster works since it is specific to them (well that option anyway) it might be a challenge.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

So Guidas posts on Facebook are nothing more than scare tactics? I’m inexperienced in all this, forgive the ignorance.

Not scare tactics - one attorney's interpretation of the law.

Like I said, everyone is guessing as to interpretation, however, the chances attorney Guida is technically correct are excellent. That does not mean the courts will see it that way.

I guess the grey area isn't the owned part, it's what they will consider "lawfully owned". By they I mean the courts. As is they already misinterpret the constitution. Why would we think any different in this situation. I get that you are only explaining the text as written, I'm just being more realistic of how they will see this in court.

You mean like how the court reasonably interpreted that the 60 day exemption for new residents did not apply to high capacity firearms and magazines, because it did not explicitly list a subclass of firearm and magazine that did not exist (in law) when the exemption was put into place?

 

[Darkslide]

What about stuff like pin/welded muzzle brakes and collapsible stocks on pre 94 and “others”? I’m assuming they now required to be made MA compliant.

 

[Whutmeworry]

Great summary. Keep in mind also (unless I’m mistaken) that they can’t simply add rifles and shotguns to a new roster. All manufacturers will also be subject to the same “testing” standards (drop test, accuracy test, etc.) before they can even be considered by EOPSS to be included on the roster.

 

[jek]

Pardon the new thread. The main thread is cluttered and putting this in one clean post as a summary I am hoping is helpful. I don’t believe in Healey and I think GOAL has its head up it’s ass on a number of issues and this reflects that



Practical implications of H4885 for purchasing and possessing

A billion “but what about me?” questions in the main thread so I figure giving a single post describing what to buy when might help.


The new law was signed on 7/25/24 according to the press release. It was done so without an emergency preamble. This means NOTHING CHANGES until it goes into effect on 10/23/24. All current laws are in effect unchanged until 10/23/24.

You can buy anything currently legal. This means any/all off roster handguns via frame transfer. This means any/all semi auto rifles or shotguns with compliance done. This means any/all frames or receivers of potential assault-style weapons. You can do this until 10/23/24.

BUT only items possessed lawfully ON (not before, on) 8/1/24 are grandfathered from being unlawful ASWs once the new law takes effect. So while you can continue to purchase AR lowers, for example, through 10/23/24, only ones lawfully possessed on 8/1/24 will continue to be legal.


So there is no rush to buy right now EXCEPT that which will be an ASW once the new law goes into effect. The rush to buy is all the ARs and similar evil semi auto rifles and shotguns that you need to get by 8/1 to be grandfathered. So buy these by midnight on Thursday 8/1. Regular off roster handguns or non CMR compliant handguns like glocks or most CZs, etc you can skip buying for now and get anytime before 10/23/24.



Now, what about all the cool stuff I now own that I need to be grandfathered. Do I register my lowers? What do I need to do? The short answer is NOTHING. The law says you need to lawfully possess on 8/1. It also says it must be registered in accordance with 121B and serialized in accordance with 121C.

121B is the NEW state wide database where every gun in the state must be registered. The state has one year to implement. Once implemented every transaction must be validated in the system and the gun registered to the new owner and unregistered from the old owner. Everyone will have another year to register everything they currently own. You will need to register what you have before you can transact it to sell if you sell before the one year and have not yet registered it. This is 121B.

You cannot register anything today to satisfy this requirement. Today we have a database of transactions, not a database of registered guns and owners. YOU DO NOT NEED TO “REGISTER” BEFORE 8/2 to be in compliance with the new law or prove anything. The fact that you recorded a transaction in the current system PROVES nothing.

You can/should follow the current law. If you “purchase or obtain” a firearm, rifle or shotgun from other than a Ma dealer, LTC holder or fid holder, then record the transaction within seven days of “purchasing or obtaining”. Do this to be legal with today’s law, not because it is in anyway needed for the new law. It does nothing relative to the new law and the future 121B which might not take effect until late 2025.

For the state to successfully charge you with a violation of the new 131M ASW violation, the burden of proof is on them to prove that the firearm was NOT lawfully possessed by a MA dealer or LTC holder on 8/1/24. Prove a negative. Good luck. In practice they run a trace request with the ATF. It will show when manufactured, when sold to the distributor, when sold to the dealer and when the 4473 transferred it to a person. If it was manufactured after 8/1/24 then you are in trouble. But if they can’t prove it could have been in the state lawfully on 8/1, they are done. In most cases there will be a 4473 showing you bought it on or before 8/1 because you did. In summary if you lawfully own it on 8/1, you are good.

Some other things go bump on 10/23/24. If you have only a FID anything semi auto you own is now illegal for you to have. This is the single biggest taking in the new law and should be an easy challenge in court. But assuming no court action, all FID holders must get rid of their semi auto guns before 10/23/24. Yup, you are getting screwed. This also hits all the FUDDs with FIDs with Ruger mini 14s and 10/22s.

On 10/23 dealers will longer be able to sell ANYTHING not on the roster. This includes all rifles, shotguns, machine guns, frames, and receivers. Yup, when it takes effect we can sell on roster handguns and nothing else. Until they add each and every possible bolt gun, pump shot gun, lever rifle, etc, we cannot sell them even though they are perfectly legal to have. Another major insanity of the new law ans kikely a mistake. They made all firearms subject to the roster in 123 (o). This was the same in the old law when a “firearm” was a not rifle or shotgun. Not a firearm is a pistol, rifle, shotgun, machine gun etc. Failing to change this language took out all sales except what is on the current handgun roster. Another easy court challenge but these take time.

So it you need a nice new shotgun to hunt this year, get it before 10/23 since dealers can no longer sell you anything.

Summary

Buy ARs and related future evil guns before 8/2. Follow the current law. Don’t “register” stuff because you think it is required or helps with the new law.

Buy everything else you want before 10/23 because dealers won’t be able to sell anything after that except boring on roster handguns.

Write letters to your state senator and rep asking why they banned you from buying a new pump shotgun for hunting turkeys this year.

FID holders get rid of all your semi auto long guns before 10/23



Side note. What about Healey and 7/20/2016. This is a red hearing. If the gun is lawful now it’s still lawful. If you think the press conference on 7/20/16 made things magically illegal, then ok, they are illegal. Otherwise the language in the new law just makes pre 7/20/16 guns that you owned and registered (side not saying registered here in the new law is impossible since we don’t have registration proving that they don’t even understand the laws we have) BEFORE 7/20/16 NOT a copy or duplicate. They are still subject to the feature test which they will fail so all grandfathering comes from the 8/1 language in 131M. And it says BEFORE. All the guns people rushed to buy ON 7/20/16 don’t count. Ha. Stupid.

It adds up to a nothing burger. If it’s legal on 8/1 it’s still legal after the new law. The Healey language changes nothing. Maybe it makes your gun MORE legal, but I can’t come up with an actual example that it impacts. Healey sycophants like Jason Guida says it proves Healey was right and all post 2016 are illegal. Bah.

Great summary. I hope this thread can stay how you intended, but the "but what about me?" have begun. But, you knew that would happen.

 

[btnh6668]

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