The Conference Committee has sent official language out - h.4885

[Tallahassee]

Meaning they don't have to be serialize and eFA10'd into the system before 8/1 and people can finish them next year, request a serial number and register at that time?

There is nothing in place to register them, probably won't be for two years.

 

[Coyote33]

my Unfinished, none FA10'd and legally possessed stripped receiver for an AR15 can now be built up into a 6 inch pistol with a folding brace and a flash hider. I will then have to register it down the road when that system is created.

I will not say you are wrong. I am sure this is not intended, but I came to the exact same conclusion you did.

Guessing any other barrel size as well, correct? This was just to add all the extras into one, right?

I think the bigger issue is the committee has the power to add or delete anything from the roster and there is nothing in place to make them actual create a roster
No time frame , no repercussions for not making a roster.

What committee is this? Thank you.

 

[pastera]

Not scare tactics - one attorney's interpretation of the law.

Like I said, everyone is guessing as to interpretation, however, the chances attorney Guida is technically correct are excellent. That does not mean the courts will see it that way.



You mean like how the court reasonably interpreted that the 60 day exemption for new residents did not apply to high capacity firearms and magazines, because it did not explicitly list a subclass of firearm and magazine that did not exist (in law) when the exemption was put into place?

Thank you
I am blocked by the OP for stating that the only opinion that truly counts is that of the judge and/or jury, not a dealer posting his opinion on a forum

Buyer beware when accepting a free opinion that meets what you want the truth to be.

 

[pastera]

Can the date and time signature in the photos be altered?

Not if uploaded to cloud service - there will be Metadata that you would not be able to effect showing the day it was uploaded.

 

[sbhaven]

@CrackPot do you have an interpretation of how H4885 will affect all those 80% paperweights that people haven't gotten around to finishing?

One thing they've done is change the definitions in section 121 of said chapter 140 to add the following which now includes "unfinished frame or receiver". From page 13 line 230 and page 19 line 369 of the H4885.pdf.

“Firearm”, a stun gun, pistol, revolver, rifle, shotgun, sawed-off shotgun, large capacity firearm, assault-style firearm and machine gun, loaded or unloaded, which is designed to or may readily be converted to expel a shot or bullet; the frame or receiver of any such firearm or the unfinished frame or receiver of any such firearm; provided, however, that “firearm” shall not include any antique firearm or permanently inoperable firearm.

“Unfinished frame or receiver”, a forging, casting, printing, extrusion, machined body or similar item that: (i) has reached a stage in manufacture when it may readily be completed or assembled to function as a frame or receiver; or (ii) is marketed or sold to the public to become or be used as the frame or receiver of a functional firearm once completed or assembled; provided, however, that “unfinished frame or receiver” shall not include a component designed and intended for use in an antique firearm.

 

[drgrant]

FTF is good to go for grandfathered ASW’s.
Prices might get funky, as inventory will be limited to what’s already in state.

"Or by what smoke can be blowed up someone's ass"

You guys do understand the farcical nature of this whole exercise right? It's not that difficult for someone to forge an FA10 or a sales receipt photocopy and then present it as proof of provenance. And the buyer has no way of verifying this.... not to mention the states system will effectively say nothing about it, either.

 

[Marty McFly]

"Or by what smoke can be blowed up someone's ass"

You guys do understand the farcical nature of this whole exercise right? It's not that difficult for someone to forge an FA10 or a sales receipt photocopy and then present it as proof of provenance. And the buyer has no way of verifying this.

Great idea! Thanks!

 

[ddeck]

My cousin (the instructor in this case) posted this yesterday

View attachment 902737

I kind of figured this would happen. It is quite ridiculous that their interpretation means no licenses will be available for months or longer since the MSP has to develop the course, the instructor has to develop a plan to teach it, the test has to be passed, etc.

But I expect nothing more from the licensing authorities in this state. This law has so many problems but anyone not already in the game is going to face increased barriers to getting in.

 

[Horatio Alger Jr]

Thank you
I am blocked by the OP for stating that the only opinion that truly counts is that of the judge and/or jury, not a dealer posting his opinion on a forum

Buyer beware when accepting a free opinion that meets what you want the truth to be.

I enjoy your posts, but that was not really what that discussion was about, lol. Seems like you are trying to use a victim card, who cares if someone blocked you.

 

[drgrant]

Great idea! Thanks!

The main reason I mention this is because a common pastime in Massachusetts with pre98 handguns was "inventing" provenance docs so your off list stuff could be consigned at deli ticket emporium..... or any other shop that required proof of existence in MA pre-98. I've never done it myself because I would consider it to be a form of fraud but I have purchased guns where there was a photocopy of the provenance in the box and I'm like this is a joke isn't it? Really? If this was on a blue card why no original and just a grainy but legible photocopy?

 

[JDL]

According to the law, they've effectively stopped all new gun licenses until such


time as the State Police Stand up all the

new training requirements. In actuality,

the law states that unless your license
has been issued as of 8/1 (or renewals) you'll be subjected to the new training requirements. My son submitted his application about 3 weeks ago but it has
yet to be issued by the state. According to the law, he is now subject to the new requirements. Does that mean they intend to reject all in-flight licenses and have them start over? Apologies if this has been covered already - I've been trying to keep up

This is one of those unknown areas however if you go by the new law the way it is written yes unless it has been approved by the state and in the mail dated prior to 8/1/2024. Licensing looks to be suspended except for renewals untill the new training requirements are in place and the new instructors are certified to teach the new training. This may also be a way to cut down on the number of instructors in the state. We as current instructors I would assume are no longer certified as of 8/1/2024 and it is unknown how and what instructors will have to do to become certified. Training and new licensing is at a stand still.

 

[JDL]

I posted some pages back and it says 8/1 renewals and those who applied before the training was implemented, or to that effect.

It’s like the 7/20 and 8/1 dates. Have license before new training, okay. Have license by 8/1, extra okay.

Yes

 

[drgrant]

It’s a concern, but I think it’s secondary to trying to help the gun community in MA understand what they can of this and better protect themselves, or at least make informed decisions. The law is the law and it will be interpreted however it gets interpreted. The courts will have the last word.

I think the silence from courts on all of this will be deafening until we push the issue.

 

[novo]

Will there be any clarification on this issue from the FRB you think? But if there isn't does anyone have suggestions on what I should do? Should I contact my licensing officer and ask if my application will continue to be processed. I know my app has been entered into MIRCS because I have the dcijs receipt with the time and date of submission of my new applicant application. Just not sure what I should do I don't want to wait and then find out months later that I have to retake the firearm safety class. Then wait again for many months for my app to be processed again.

 

[DJBrad]

Meaning they don't have to be serialize and eFA10'd into the system before 8/1 and people can finish them next year, request a serial number and register at that time?

Only referenced term is “unfinished” lower or “unserialized firearm” (if able to fire) therefore my take it is a paperweight. Same goes for 80% glocks, Sigs, etc. as these are not “readily” able to be finished.

 

[JDL]

so does this mean if I have to renew I have to comply with the new requirements or does my years of being a license holder address any changes?

No, renewals are exempted from the new training.

 

[ddeck]

Hi everyone I have a question that pertains to the new gun legislation passed. In the bill that passed there is a revisement to the basic firearm safety course. I took my basic firearm safety course on June 3rd. And I have already submitted my application and certificate to my local licensing authority. For which my application is pending review. So my question is since this new law passed am I going to have to take the new basic firearm safety course in order to get my license. Even though my application is already submitted? Plus the law says anyone who has their firearms license before August 1st 2024 is exempt from this new training standard. Most likely I will not receive my license till well after August 1st. So does this mean that once I receive my license and come up for renewal I will have to take the new safety course in order to renew the license?

Head over here: The Conference Committee has sent official language out - h.4885

Every town is its own licensing authority so your answer may differ than what was posted about Webster. But if it is already in the system then you are better off than people who have not submitted it.

I wouldn’t call the licensing authority because I can almost guarantee they don’t know either.

There is no definitive answer for you at this time.

 

[nm1]

This is one of those unknown areas however if you go by the new law the way it is written yes unless it has been approved by the state and in the mail dated prior to 8/1/2024. Licensing looks to be suspended except for renewals untill the new training requirements are in place and the new instructors are certified to teach the new training. This may also be a way to cut down on the number of instructors in the state. We as current instructors I would assume are no longer certified as of 8/1/2024 and it is unknown how and what instructors will have to do to become certified. Training and new licensing is at a stand still.

Except the new law has not come into force yet, it has the 90 day implementation delay. It’s technically still the old rules in place and anyone who gets their license in the next 3 months would get it under the old laws/training. The difference being is that they would have to resubmit a compliant training cert in 6 years when they renew since their training was not grandfathered.

 

[Picton]

Will there be any clarification on this issue from the FRB you think? But if there isn't does anyone have suggestions on what I should do? Should I contact my licensing officer and ask if my application will continue to be processed. I know my app has been entered into MIRCS because I have the dcijs receipt with the time and date of submission of my new applicant application. Just not sure what I should do I don't want to wait and then find out months later that I have to retake the firearm safety class. Then wait again for many months for my app to be processed again.

Nobody really knows. I suspect even FRB would be guessing. Though they could check the status of your app.

You're controlled by your local PD, so in theory you should contact them first. I doubt it would hurt, but then I also doubt they know any more than we do. The bottom line is that if you're already in the system, you're probably GTG and your local PD will still handle your LTC like it's always been handled. But nobody knows for sure.

 

[wcorey]

One thing they've done is change the definitions in section 121 of said chapter 140 to add the following which now includes "unfinished frame or receiver". From page 13 line 230 and page 19 line 369 of the H4885.pdf.

Which means you still have to somehow prove you owned a particular blank unserialized hunk of aluminum on 8/1…

 

[ddeck]

Except the new law has not come into force yet, it has the 90 day implementation delay. It’s technically still the old rules in place and anyone who gets their license in the next 3 months would get it under the old laws/training. The difference being is that they would have to resubmit a compliant training cert in 6 years when they renew since their training was not grandfathered.

It depends how your licensing authority interprets it (or what they’ve been told).

Unfortunately that’s all that matters right now. We can point out the stupidity and how it is incorrect but what if they just say no. Or won’t submit it to the state?

 

[Marty McFly]

The main reason I mention this is because a common pastime in Massachusetts with pre98 handguns was "inventing" provenance docs so your off list stuff could be consigned at deli ticket emporium..... or any other shop that required proof of existence in MA pre-98. I've never done it myself because I would consider it to be a form of fraud but I have purchased guns where there was a photocopy of the provenance in the box and I'm like this is a joke isn't it? Really? If this was on a blue card why no original and just a grainy but legible photocopy?

I hear ya. I'm almost out of business with this crap. No more scratching pre94 into pmags.

 

[Picton]

No renewals are exempted from the new training.

This is one of those times when punctuation matters; a comma or period between No and renewals makes this an accurate statement, but it could be read the complete opposite way as is. Lol.

 

[MaverickNH]

There is nothing in place to register them, probably won't be for two years.

That’s usually the missing piece - implementation. It takes 12-18mo to spec out a system, bid creation of the system and get it online, assuming it’s funded and staffed from the get-go. And it’s usually not, so 2yr+ is a good estimate.

My lesson from MA’s Non-Res LTC system is that, knowing that they could not facilitate yearly renewals on time, the FRB made sure to confirm you were not carrying in MA during the time your Non-Res LTC was pending. Knowing it will take a long time for any legal challenge to the bottlenecks made by negligence on their part, they’ll just look at it as a plus in discouraging firearms ownership. They get paid, your rights are delayed/denied, and your money is being spent to on both sides to address the problem.

 

[nm1]

Only referenced term is “unfinished” lower or “unserialized firearm” (if able to fire) therefore my take it is a paperweight. Same goes for 80% glocks, Sigs, etc. as these are not “readily” able to be finished.

The states historic claim is that an 80% Glock is ‘readily’ enough, paralleling the ATF line of thought in their frame rugulatory adventure that if you have and 80%+jig+all other parts you have a Glock

 

[Tartakovsky]

As a former Ma**h*** and casual observer, shout out to Randy and Sherif and other MA FFLs for not going full-Rapetile on pants shitting pricing in light of the MA ASW full metal panic of 2024.

 

[bigbravehog]

Oh, my sweet summer child.

The short answer? Future renewals won't be subject to the new training requirements.

The long answer? This is about the 12th new thread on this general topic, and this specific question has been asked a score of times. There are a LOT of different facets to your question, and those other threads have all the speculation on what the answers are. It's not all that simple.

Welcome to NES...

 

[JDL]

Except the new law has not come into force yet, it has the 90 day implementation delay. It’s technically still the old rules in place and anyone who gets their license in the next 3 months would get it under the old laws/training. The difference being is that they would have to resubmit a compliant training cert in 6 years when they renew since their training was not grandfathered.

The date in the law is very specific 8/1/2024. No new licence applications will be excepted without the training certificate. This is the training certificate that dosent exist yet. 90 days means nothing.
It is just like the specific date for AW 8/1/2024 I don't think that means you can purchase an AW after that date because 90 days to go into effect.

 

[Bt74]

The silver lining, is that the Fudds that say "no one needs an AR15" seem to have a chance of getting their due rewards.

 

[drgrant]

The silver lining, is that the Fudds that say "no one needs an AR15" seem to have a chance of getting their due rewards.

It'll be fun when they can't buy or order an O/U at deli ticket emporium or cabelas once the roster bs kicks in. "apparently the antis stopped thinking "guns are fine for hunting" about 2 sec before they passed this.