Medical Pot Card denial - Bass Pro Shit show

[Mark from ?]

I wouldn't be thrilled about being denied a constitutional right myself.

The first time.....I'll give him that....but he was denied by a store policy that was clearly articulated the first time to him.

Their store....... their rules, don't like it, don't go there...plenty of places in FL to buy.......and as Crackpot who is an FFL states in the beginning of the thread .....

"Any FFL can deny a transaction for ANY reasons whether they articulate the reason or not. It is something drilled into you when you get a license, you NEVER have to complete a transaction."

Second time.....no......he's playing it up for a lawsuit or he's just retarded and went there expecting a different result.

He wants to sue them over their policy....absolutely fine with it and he may have a case. Odds are that is what he's doing....he sees an opening to extract a paycheck from big box and deep pockets, for all we know the guy could care less about guns, just doing as instructed by his lawyers.

 

[paul73]

playing it up for a lawsuit or he's just retarded

florida?
of course, retarded.

 

[Kevin_NH]

Second time.....no......he's playing it up for a lawsuit or he's just retarded and went there expecting a different result. I'll argue if he wants to sue them over their policy....absolutely fine with it and he may have a case.

He has no case, the FFL is required to deny the transfer when the clerk has "reasonable cause to believe" the buyer is a user of MMJ in violation of federal law, see the ATF All FFLs-Sept2011-Open Letter

 

[Dench]

The first time.....I'll give him that....but he was denied by a store policy that was clearly articulated the first time to him.

Their store....... their rules, don't like it, don't go there...plenty of places in FL to buy.......and as Crackpot who is an FFL states in the beginning of the thread .....

"Any FFL can deny a transaction for ANY reasons whether they articulate the reason or not. It is something drilled into you when you get a license, you NEVER have to complete a transaction."

Second time.....no......he's playing it up for a lawsuit or he's just retarded and went there expecting a different result. I'll argue if he wants to sue them over their policy....absolutely fine with it and he may have a case.

Keep in mind the clerk who worked there gave you bad information. So who knows what the past was. What we do know is the staff is spreading misinformation.

 

[Mark from ?]

Keep in mind the clerk who worked there gave you bad information. So who knows what the past was. What we do know is the staff is spreading misinformation.

Fxck....I assume gun store clerks are spreading misinformation.....why I started this thread.

However, the store was not wrong per their interpretation of what they felt the FFL rules are on this per what Crackpot and NHKevin say. Its good to know MMJ aren't linked to the NICS system.

Nothing can really explain the irrational behavior of some people when butthurt and if they come back multiple times to get butthurt when there are other options.

 

[Dench]

Yet this guy goes back again, and is butthurt again over the same result. Slow learner.

Flo Grown

 

[Mark from ?]

Flo Grown

LOL.....starting to understand that!!

 

[fencer]

What you or I think doesn't matter. ATF thinks otherwise and has indicated such to FFL's.

I disagree. The question is do you have the fortitude and resources to hire a competent attorney to contest the ATF's opinion in court.
I think if someone does, it is entirely possible that person will prevail.

 

[Parker Schreiber]

I disagree. The question is do you have the fortitude and resources to hire a competent attorney to contest the ATF's opinion in court.
I think if someone does, it is entirely possible that person will prevail.

For a change, the US Code is fairly clear on the subject.

18 USC 922(d) It shall be unlawful for any person to sell or otherwise dispose of any firearm or ammunition to any person knowing or having reasonable cause to believe that such person, including as a juvenile . . .(3) is an unlawful user of or addicted to any controlled substance (as defined in section 102 of the Controlled Substances Act (21 U.S.C. 802));

21 USC 802 -- The term “controlled substance” means a drug or other substance, or immediate precursor, included in schedule I, II, III, IV, or V of part B of this subchapter.

Marijuana is currently a schedule I substance. Even it gets reclassified into schedule III was proposed under the Biden administration, it would still be a controlled substance. Note the standard is "having reasonable cause," not something like "beyond a reasonable doubt" or "clear and convincing evidence."

So put yourself in the shoes of a Bass Pro Shop lawyer. Do you really want to give any discretion to low level employees, or do you provide them with a rule that says, "you see a card or joint, no sale?"

Any court challenge would have to be against the law as written. Given the language of Heller, good luck with that.

 

[KBCraig]

No. They have stated that possession of a card is basis for a reasonable belief that the person is an illegal user or addict. These statements are NOT equivalent. A small amount of due diligence by the FFL can reduce the basis to less than reasonable belief.

The ATF guidance says that if the FFL is aware that the person has a MMJ card, then that "reasonable belief" means that they must not transfer a firearm to that person.

No FFL is going to risk loss of license for a transfer that the ATF specifically told them they can't process.

 

[KBCraig]

Don’t know anything about med mj cards, but what’s the expiration length (lifetime? 5yrs? etc) and can they be issued to one family member (A) who’s caring for another family member (B), say with cancer, when B can’t go outside to the pot store?

Reasonable defense there?

BT,DT

I'm not a user, but my late wife had a card and I had a card as her caretaker. In NH, there's no difference in the cards. Also in NH, they're not linked to any state or federal databases... but I still damn sure didn't whip it out at the gun counter.

 

[KBCraig]

One the time when I was working the gun counter at Shooter's Outpost, the cops came in to arrest a guy the owner had ratted out... no idea for what.

... and then Jim (the owner) yelled at me in front of everyone for being observant ...

I think you answered your own question there.

 

[KBCraig]

For indoors grows you can with carbon filters. I've grown the state limit indoors with zero odor. Outdoors is a different story, I've had some that you could smell 1/4 mile away.

I don't think they are that strict on the outdoor grows now, it use to be that you could not see them from the road and they are fenced in. We have a local State Trooper that has a grow 100' from where he parks his state issued SUV, about 75' from the road, nothing blocking the view and a fence that is only 4' high. I have no clue if the trooper lives in a multi family and it's someone else's grow, point is that he doesn't care and I guess the town cops that pass by it dozens of times a day don't care either. I think the spirit of the law might be not leaving plants out for kids to see/harvest.

Seed bomb every outdoor space. Make the K9s nose blind.

 

[cams]

BT,DT

I'm not a user, but my late wife had a card and I had a card as her caretaker. In NH, there's no difference in the cards. Also in NH, they're not linked to any state or federal databases... but I still damn sure didn't whip it out at the gun counter.

My condolences. That’s an awful thing to go through.

 

[Qwikdraw45]

Don’t know anything about med mj cards, but what’s the expiration length (lifetime? 5yrs? etc) and can they be issued to one family member (A) who’s caring for another family member (B), say with cancer, when B can’t go outside to the pot store?

Reasonable defense there?

In NH the max is three years for length-of-issue. W/O a caretaker card, caretaker can not go inside the store. Have a relative who has the card, and her caretaker does not, so he can't even go into the lobby to wait.

Or buy on Floridaguntrader.......which I'll admit is what i should be doing, i just haven't seen that many deals.

So the question is answered...this guy is either looking for a payday to sue Big Box for their policy, or he was extra special retarded......to try something twice that store policy is against and try and get away with it.

In Florida.....Ill go with both retarded and looking for a payout as well.

Didn't find many deals on there either when I lived there.

Yup, "Florida Man".

Well......the Bass Pro dude must not have been smoking enough....cause he was full of anxiety, and certainly wasn't laughing. After he left one of the clerks said WTF...thought pot was supposed to mellow you out???

 

[namedpipes]

Clerk gets it says I need your DL, guy pulls out his wallet, Med Pot card in it and clerk says....can't sell....you have that its linked in FL with the Fed system and you will get denied so lets not waste the time.
...
I look at the gun counter guys and they are like....oh yeah....second time he's tried to pull that shit.......

It's my understanding that MM cards are considered protected health information and are not linked in with any federal system, but I could SO easily be mistaken on that in this surveillance era we're living in. Anybody know for certain?

So, stipulating there's no automatic discovery during the background check and this was the guy's second attempt, shouldn't he have just known from the first attempt to leave that card on his dresser that morning? Or in the glovebox?

The only plausible explanation for this is:

FLORIDA MAN

Although it's possible you were just funning us, since you posted it on April 1st...?

 

[Broc Tuah]

The first time.....I'll give him that....but he was denied by a store policy that was clearly articulated the first time to him.

Their store....... their rules, don't like it, don't go there...plenty of places in FL to buy.......and as Crackpot who is an FFL states in the beginning of the thread .....

"Any FFL can deny a transaction for ANY reasons whether they articulate the reason or not. It is something drilled into you when you get a license, you NEVER have to complete a transaction."

Second time.....no......he's playing it up for a lawsuit or he's just retarded and went there expecting a different result.

He wants to sue them over their policy....absolutely fine with it and he may have a case. Odds are that is what he's doing....he sees an opening to extract a paycheck from big box and deep pockets, for all we know the guy could care less about guns, just doing as instructed by his lawyers.

Dude was probably a Fed Boi.

Maybe the same guy that pulls his ATF badge at an airport bar.

 

[Broc Tuah]

It's my understanding that MM cards are considered protected health information and are not linked in with any federal system, but I could SO easily be mistaken on that in this surveillance era we're living in. Anybody know for certain?

So, stipulating there's no automatic discovery during the background check and this was the guy's second attempt, shouldn't he have just known from the first attempt to leave that card on his dresser that morning? Or in the glovebox?

The only plausible explanation for this is:

FLORIDA MAN

Although it's possible you were just funning us, since you posted it on April 1st...?

Don't try to make sense of Florida people.

 

[Chevy 2 65]

The entire MJ is bad etc... guns oh my god. is bullshit.. look at all the shit pills created by the pharmaceutical companies but because a government agencies approve the DRUG it's OK.

 

[Mark from ?]

Don't try to make sense of Florida people.

Nope...its like trying to make sense of a Cambridge Liberal........

 

[Mark from ?]

Dude was probably a Fed Boi.

Maybe the same guy that pulls his ATF badge at an airport bar.

Could have been a lot of things.....

Florida Man looking for payout
Company plant to make sure clerks are following policy
ATF plant/Fed boi
Just a dumbass trying to do something a second time expecting a different result

 

[TG Pioneer]

It sounds like the gun store guy was just trying to save the customer some time (and himself some work) if he'd be denied anyway on the background check. At least they didn't call the cops when the guy went "fing ballistic."

One the time when I was working the gun counter at Shooter's Outpost, the cops came in to arrest a guy the owner had ratted out... no idea for what.

I was paying attention to the interaction of this guy with the cops in case there was gunplay involved, and I'd need to act, and then Jim (the owner) yelled at me in front of everyone for being observant to protect myself and others instead of working... when literally nobody in the store was doing any business right then. All the customers were watching the cops arrest this dude!

Yes, it still pisses me off.

The guy struck me as a tool when I went in there a few years back. I left fairly quickly. Won't go back.

 

[HorizontalHunter]

For a change, the US Code is fairly clear on the subject.

18 USC 922(d) It shall be unlawful for any person to sell or otherwise dispose of any firearm or ammunition to any person knowing or having reasonable cause to believe that such person, including as a juvenile . . .(3) is an unlawful user of or addicted to any controlled substance (as defined in section 102 of the Controlled Substances Act (21 U.S.C. 802));

21 USC 802 -- The term “controlled substance” means a drug or other substance, or immediate precursor, included in schedule I, II, III, IV, or V of part B of this subchapter.

Marijuana is currently a schedule I substance. Even it gets reclassified into schedule III was proposed under the Biden administration, it would still be a controlled substance. Note the standard is "having reasonable cause," not something like "beyond a reasonable doubt" or "clear and convincing evidence."

So put yourself in the shoes of a Bass Pro Shop lawyer. Do you really want to give any discretion to low level employees, or do you provide them with a rule that says, "you see a card or joint, no sale?"

Any court challenge would have to be against the law as written. Given the language of Heller, good luck with that.

So if you go look at the definitions of section 802 the term “Unlawful user” isn’t defined. What is the difference between a lawful user and an unlawful user? Does a prescription turn someone into a lawful user of a controlled substance?

 

[Parker Schreiber]

So if you go look at the definitions of section 802 the term “Unlawful user” isn’t defined. What is the difference between a lawful user and an unlawful user? Does a prescription turn someone into a lawful user of a controlled substance?

As far as Federal Law is concerned, there's essentially no such thing as a "lawful user" of marijuana. 21 USC 844 states it's an "unlawful act" to "knowingly or intentionally to possess a controlled substance unless such substance was obtained directly, or pursuant to a valid prescription or order, from a practitioner, while acting in the course of his professional practice, or except as otherwise authorized by this subchapter or subchapter II." In a 2021 Missouri case, a conviction for being an unlawful user of a controlled substance in possession of a firearm was upheld based on an admission the defendant had smoked a blunt earlier in the day.

During my late wife's final year, she was prescribed all sorts of controlled substances, ranging from marijuana up to and including fentanyl patches. After she passed, I was legally required to dispose of all of them. If I were to take a single gummy, or even keep around her migraine meds "just in case," I would be committing a disqualifying misdemeanor.

 

[HorizontalHunter]

As far as Federal Law is concerned, there's essentially no such thing as a "lawful user" of marijuana. 21 USC 844 states it's an "unlawful act" to "knowingly or intentionally to possess a controlled substance unless such substance was obtained directly, or pursuant to a valid prescription or order, from a practitioner, while acting in the course of his professional practice, or except as otherwise authorized by this subchapter or subchapter II." In a 2021 Missouri case, a conviction for being an unlawful user of a controlled substance in possession of a firearm was upheld based on an admission the defendant had smoked a blunt earlier in the day.

During my late wife's final year, she was prescribed all sorts of controlled substances, ranging from marijuana up to and including fentanyl patches. After she passed, I was legally required to dispose of all of them. If I were to take a single gummy, or even keep around her migraine meds "just in case," I would be committing a disqualifying misdemeanor.

Thank you for the clarification.

 

[timbo]

​

Yes. Come to Missouri! But only if you are a card carrying Conservative! We have too many here that are not.

Can You Own a Gun with a Medical Card in Missouri?​

Yes. Medical marijuana cardholders in Missouri can purchase and own firearms. Under state laws, open carry and concealed carry are permitted. Missouri enacted the Second Amendment Preservation Act (SAPA), which bars state law enforcement from enforcing the federal law that limits the gun ownership rights of state-registered medical marijuana patients.

Can You Own a Gun with a Medical Card in Missouri? | MissouriStateCannabis.org

Does Missouri allow medical marijuana patients to own guns? Find out how eligibility for medical cannabis affects your Second Amendment rights in Missouri

missouristatecannabis.org

 

[Dench]

As far as Federal Law is concerned, there's essentially no such thing as a "lawful user" of marijuana. 21 USC 844 states it's an "unlawful act" to "knowingly or intentionally to possess a controlled substance unless such substance was obtained directly, or pursuant to a valid prescription or order, from a practitioner, while acting in the course of his professional practice, or except as otherwise authorized by this subchapter or subchapter II." In a 2021 Missouri case, a conviction for being an unlawful user of a controlled substance in possession of a firearm was upheld based on an admission the defendant had smoked a blunt earlier in the day.

During my late wife's final year, she was prescribed all sorts of controlled substances, ranging from marijuana up to and including fentanyl patches. After she passed, I was legally required to dispose of all of them. If I were to take a single gummy, or even keep around her migraine meds "just in case," I would be committing a disqualifying misdemeanor.

You explained the system well, but let's not pretend its appropriate, fair or legal.

 

[Mark from ?]

​

Yes. Come to Missouri! But only if you are a card carrying Conservative! We have too many here that are not.

Can You Own a Gun with a Medical Card in Missouri?​

Yes. Medical marijuana cardholders in Missouri can purchase and own firearms. Under state laws, open carry and concealed carry are permitted. Missouri enacted the Second Amendment Preservation Act (SAPA), which bars state law enforcement from enforcing the federal law that limits the gun ownership rights of state-registered medical marijuana patients.

Can You Own a Gun with a Medical Card in Missouri? | MissouriStateCannabis.org

Does Missouri allow medical marijuana patients to own guns? Find out how eligibility for medical cannabis affects your Second Amendment rights in Missouri

missouristatecannabis.org

So Ass Pro Shops corporate headquarters in Springfield and any stores in MO should not be following MMJ card DQ stuff....interesting.

 

[Mark from ?]

You explained the system well, but let's not pretend its appropriate, fair or legal.

Its kinda like gun laws state to state then.....if your in MA, CT, NJ, NY,CA, etc.........nothing is fair or legal and continues to be a huge violation of Constitution.

 

[Dench]

Now you can add pot DQ states to that......list.

Yep, all 50.

ATF finally figured out a way to trick a ton of patriots into supporting gun control.