The Liberty Training Rifle

NWanner said:
You had me until the Honda Civic part, lol. I know jack-squat about 10/22s, so I guess I have some research to do. The one I'd be looking for would be the one with the longer barrel and bigger stock or possibly a stock with a pistol grip.
Click to expand...

The best source of info on the 10/22 that I know of is http://www.rimfirecentral.com/

Keep in mind that the purpose of the LTR is to create an affordable training rifle that mimics a battle rifle, whereas many people on RFC tend to focus on high end accuracy. You'll see a lot on scopes, bull barrels and target stocks that don't have much use for Appleseed purposes. Regardless, they have a lot of 10/22 'experts' on the site that should be able to point you in the right direction.

As I mentioned, my first LTR has the Tapco stock, which costs $70 with a C&R discount. It's not identical to an AR-15, but it comes pretty close, and at a good value.

http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=396866
 
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Here are the details of my first LTR (keep in mind that the Midway prices are with the C&R discount). I can’t right now, but I’ll try to post pictures tomorrow:

Ruger 10/22 Carbine, used - $90 (Zero Hour Arms). The rifle turned out to be in excellent condition for its age, so I didn’t feel I needed to replace any of the stock parts.

TAPCO T6 Stock - $70
http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=396866&t=11082005

Tech Sights - $55 (I think I paid less with the Appleseed group buy)
http://www.tech-sights.com/

Volquartsen Bolt Release and Hammer Pack - $30. With the possible exception of Tech Sights, this is hands down the best bang-for-your-buck change you can make to your 10/22.
http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=145851

Volquartsen Extended Magazine Release - $13
http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=572545

KID bolt buffer - $6
http://www.coolguyguns.com/8bolt.html

Allen Web Sling with Swivels Nylon Black - $8
http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=747020&t=11082005

4 new Ruger 10 round Mags - $44
http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=252579

So for what was probably less than $300, I built myself a perfectly functioning 10/22 LTR with the look and feel (almost) of my AR-15. It’s also a great loaner rifle – the size and weight, plus the adjustable stock makes it a great rifle to hand out to new shooters or smaller folks.

For my second build I went a little wild – I put a lot of stuff on there that I know I don’t really need and it ran almost $800, but I’m pretty happy with the way it came out:

Ruger 10/22-T, new – I think I paid $300-350 at Four Seasons. I was thinking about putting a new stock and barrel on a receiver from a carbine model, but the factory 10/22-T fit me so well and felt so good, I just ran with it. The stock fits me much better than the carbine model, and the 20” bull barrel gives me more length and weight up front (the accuracy gained by the bull barrel is negligible with iron sights at 25 yards).
http://www.ruger-firearms.com/Firearms/FAProdView?model=1136&return=Y

Tech Sights TSR 200 w/.920 barrel adaptor - $84 (I think I paid less with the Appleseed group buy). I’ll admit I’m still not entirely sold on this set up. I wanted the adjustable elevation aperture, but I actually found is necessary to sight in the rifle at my 50 food range because I maxed out the front sight and still wasn’t on target. I don’t quite know why that happened. The other problem I had was with the barrel adaptor, which is necessary to put the dovetail front sight on a bull barrel. The adaptor doesn’t fit snugly on the barrel, so you need a good amount of adhesive to essentially glue it on there, which turned out to be a bit of a messy process. It hasn't moved yet, but I worry that it might. But in the end, I have iron sights on a bull barrel, so I guess that’s all that matters.
http://www.tech-sights.com/

KID 10/22 trigger - $290. Don’t get me wrong, the stock trigger on a 10/22 is fine, the trigger with the VQ hammer package is a little better, but this trigger package is just incredible!!! Practically I probably went way overboard with what I spent, but I tell you, I love this trigger. It also incorporates the bolt release and extended mag release (mags always drop free with this release – I’ve found they occasionally stick with other releases, and need to be pushed or pulled out).
http://www.coolguyguns.com/8trigger.html

Sling - $22. Right now I have a simple mesh slight I had floating around, but it doesn’t look right. I’m going to add a nice leather one with a cheek pad to complete the look.
http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/LEG192-45501-1099.html?pcs=LEG192

TEN22 ShockStop Bolt Buffer - $6
http://www.hawktecharms.com/ruger/10-22.htm

4 new Ruger 10 round Mags - $44

My third LTR build is actually a gift for ShorteyGirley, and is still in progress:

Ruger 10/22 Carbine, used - $100 (Zero Hour Arms). I bought this together with the first rifle, and they looked identical from the outside. However, when I detail stripped it, it looked like something from an Indiana Jones archeological find – I doubt it had ever been detail stripped since it left the factory 30+ years ago. So I decided to toss most of the internals and start from scratch.

Custom engraving – I stripped the receiver and sent it off to Orion Arms for a custom engraving – very happy with their work.
http://www.orion-arms.com/new/

KID match bolt - $75
http://www.coolguyguns.com/8bolt.html

KID bolt handle - $10
http://www.coolguyguns.com/8bolt.html

Ruger 10/22-T trigger assembly – FREE. I tossed the entire trigger module and used the never-fired module from the abovementioned 10/22-T

Tech Sights - $55
Volquartsen Bolt Release and Hammer Pack - $30.
Volquartsen Extended Magazine Release - $13
KID bolt buffer - $6
Allen Web Sling with Swivels Nylon Black - $8
4 new Ruger 10 round Mags - $44

We still haven’t decided on a barrel or stock. I have the factory components, which appear to be in perfectly good condition. I think she’ll stick with the factory barrel to keep the weight down, but she is probably going to put on a custom stock. I’ve found that most custom stocks are designed for a .920 barrel instead of the factory barrel, so I’m not sure how much luck she’ll have. At the moment we’re running at about $350 plus the engraving, so we’re definitely still in the ballpark.
 
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NWanner said:
You had me until the Honda Civic part, lol. I know jack-squat about 10/22s, so I guess I have some research to do. The one I'd be looking for would be the one with the longer barrel and bigger stock or possibly a stock with a pistol grip.
Click to expand...

Nick,

Knowing your preferences, I'd say forget the 10/22 and all the addons, and get a used plain Jane AR with a .22lr kit. They pop up on ar15.com for under $700. It's the kind of thing you only have to buy once. And the .22 kit pays for itself in short order. [smile]
 
I agree with crak. The 10/22 is great for training because it's inexpensive. It's also great for those whose centerfire rifle is an M1/M1A/M14. If your primary centerfire rifle is an AR, get the 22LR AR conversion. I've resigned myself to the fact that I'm going to end up owning all of the above rifles eventually. I started with the 10/22 because it's the cheapest.
 
crak said:
Nick,

Knowing your preferences, I'd say forget the 10/22 and all the addons, and get a used plain Jane AR with a .22lr kit. They pop up on ar15.com for under $700. It's the kind of thing you only have to buy once. And the .22 kit pays for itself in short order. [smile]
Click to expand...

I never did think of that, I knew they existed but I was in the mindset that if I got an AR then I'd be shooting .223. Definitly something to think of.
 
Martlet used a 22LR AR at the Harvard appleseed and it seemed to work well for him. He's in the same situation, used to the AR platform from being in the Guard.
 
Plastic trigger group

Well my license finally came in. Now it's time to pick up a pair of 10/22's and build two LTR with the parts I already purchased while waiting for it. Is there any consensus on the plastic trigger group in new Ruger 10/22's? Besides cost, is there a reason to hunt down two used ones rather than buying two new ones?
 
Sling Group Buy

Coyote33 said:
sling group buy possibility
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Coyote,

Your mailbox is full!

I just sent an email, re: slings, $25 each Tan or Brown oiled for a group buy. Pop me an email if these #s work (I have a limited amount of the darker brown, but a bunch of the tan). I'll be making a pile of slings this weekend.

Photos on my blog or email me for some!

Andy
 
Anybody who is involved in (running or training) the "Appleseed Project" know if this sling meets the needs/criteria for what is wanted here? Please let us know, and we can put together a count if people want it. I think a REAL decent discount is in store if we get enough people in on it.

Secondly, anyone interested in going in together on the other items? So many different choices from different vendors on trigger stuff, sights, etc. While that TRS100 sight looks pretty good, I like the Williams' ones with the fiber for better visibility in the dark. What do people think of these? Why the metal sights over a scope, anyhow?
 
I want atleast the sling and sights myself so Yes I will go in on a group buy.
Maybe the trigger too who knows.

Suggest making a new thread if it works out so we dont crowd this one
 
Coyote33 said:
Why the metal sights over a scope, anyhow?
Click to expand...
Most military rifles come with iron sights, so that's what we teach. Plus scopes are usually more fragile that iron sights - the iron sights will be your backup when that $1000 scope breaks.

Like driving an auto when you've learned to drive a stick, using a scope will be easier than iron sights... but if you know both, you're a more versatile Rifleman.
 
Slings

crak said:
Andy, how do we use one of your slings to loop up (like a 2 point)?
Click to expand...


Crak,

I make a normal 2 point carry strap, BUT, I also make the Ching Sling, which is a 3 point sling (add an uncle mikes swivel just fwd of the magazine, attach middle strap) This allows a speedy a ROCK SOLID "loop up".

See photos here: http://www.shottist.com/use.htm

While this latter sling is my specialty, I can make darn near ANYTHING (I have a full leather shop, my main biz is Slings and Holsters and such). A popular sling is my "contractor sling" think of a VERY long sling, with holes completely down the length of it with 2 solid brass buckles (no moving parts to break). This one goes overseas for folks who pick up odd weapons. Think "Universal Carry Strap" for the Contractor! While usually sent dry (not oiled like most of my slings) I can dip this for some weather protection which darkens it nicely to match wooden rifle stocks.

Check out my web sites in my Sig-Line, I am open to any and all ideas!

Andy
(call if needed 603-630-4072)
 
Coyote33 said:
Anybody who is involved in (running or training) the "Appleseed Project" know if this sling meets the needs/criteria for what is wanted here? Please let us know, and we can put together a count if people want it. I think a REAL decent discount is in store if we get enough people in on it.

Secondly, anyone interested in going in together on the other items? So many different choices from different vendors on trigger stuff, sights, etc. While that TRS100 sight looks pretty good, I like the Williams' ones with the fiber for better visibility in the dark. What do people think of these? Why the metal sights over a scope, anyhow?
Click to expand...
Not to be a wet blanket but if you want to run or participate in a group buy, you're going to have to consider a NES Membership
.
 
Membahship.....

JonJ said:
Not to be a wet blanket but if you want to run or participate in a group buy, you're going to have to consider a NES Membership
.
Click to expand...

Jon,

Thanks for pointing this out. Group Buy is for MEMBERS here....The discount alone on this sling deal MORE than pays for the membership.

Sling NORMAL Cost $45-50, Group Buy $25 thats a 20-25 dollar savings, it costs $19 to join.

Andy
 
So, is this "ching sling" a good thing? Or is the "normal 2 point carry strap" as mentioned in post 170 preferable?

What about the other items as I asked in post 166 and in post 159 and in the very first post here? There are some similar items all from different companies. In particular, the mag releases and the various trigger/sear/accuracy type improvements. Or maybe I should just try someone else's and see what i like? Thanks.
 
Coyote33 said:
So, is this "ching sling" a good thing? Or is the "normal 2 point carry strap" as mentioned in post 170 preferable?

What about the other items as I asked in post 166 and in post 159 and in the very first post here? There are some similar items all from different companies. In particular, the mag releases and the various trigger/sear/accuracy type improvements. Or maybe I should just try someone else's and see what i like? Thanks.
Click to expand...
Coyotee33, it may be that no one's got any experience with Andy's sling. I sure don't. I had a leather sling on my 10/22 but changed it out for a GI sling - I found it more comfortable and easier to adjust.

As for the different parts... The parts in post #1 are what we have found works. If you do not want to use them, that's fine - the LTR isn't a concept cast in stone. I'm sure that folks would like to see what you use in their place. But most of us use what's in that post. I, personally, do not use any aftermarket hammer, sear or triggers, as I modified the hammer myself on one, and had Nickle modify the other two. So I can't help you out there.

You may have more luck posting that question on Rimfirecentral - those guys live and breathe for rimfire stuff. We just use them as an inexpensive trainer so we don't go broke practicing marksmanship with a centerfire rifle.

Sorry I couldn't be more help.
 
Well, $24.97 for that, when you can get a bolt release for $8.79 (Volquartsen, on sale, normally $10.79) and a mag release for $4.49 from Midway.

Don't really need the buffer or extended bolt handle.
 
Rcharnitsk said:
With the discount from CTD this seems like a good deal any one ever try this kit or have any info on it
http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/RGR018-1.html
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The auto bolt release you can do yourself with a file & the bolt handle and recoil buffer really aren't an issue. That leaves the mag release extender which I think you can get for $4 or so from Midway. If you have a C&R even better, grab more 10/22 factory mags.
 
I've had both on my 10/22 - I thought the Bell and Carlson was a plastic piece of crap, and the Volquartsen was well worth the extra $8.
 
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If the B&C is the one I'm thinking of, it didn't work at all - it didn't engage the release. Few extra bucks are worth it to have it work right.
 

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