The Price Gouging/Everything Shortage Megathread

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Serapis said:
I think you are having a problem with what exactly the situation going on is?
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I strongly disagree with that.

I feel what they do is unethical because I have a different feeling about why there is a surge in prices. Not all business' are selling products at increased prices. Why is that? At some point they might have to if there dealer prices go up.

I understand free markets. I have taken economics in college.
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I'm sorry, but I honestly think you must have forgotten the economics that you took in college or that your own dogma is blinding you to that knowledge.

Can we agree that demand has increased dramatically in the past week? In 5 days, Brownells sold more PMags than they expected to sell in 3 years. Gun shops across the country are packed.

In contrast, the supply chain for guns, ammunition, and magazines cannot be increased quickly. It is a capital intensive business and manufacturers don't have the ability to quickly and dramatically increase production -- factories need to be built, equipment needs to be purchased, employees need to be hired, etc. As a result, production is effectively fixed in the short term. So, can we agree then that demand has skyrocketed and supply is effectively fixed in the short term?

Now, back to Econ 101. Since demand has increased many times over normal and supply can't respond quickly, the price rises quickly. Eventually, if government laws don't interfere (and that is a very big if, indeed), supply will increase, demand will fall, and prices will fall as well. The other possibility is that new government laws will prevent new production and the price of extra killy things will keep going up.

You seem to feel it is unethical for a business to increase their price on their already purchased inventory. It isn't unethical at all. To keep their shelves full, those dealers are going to have to restock at very high prices. And if demand dries up suddenly, they will then have a bunch of unsold, expensive stock that they have to sell at a loss -- and the customers who "benefit" from those losses aren't being unethical either.

Why are some shops selling at different prices? That is because it is a free market. The sellers get to choose their own prices. We don't have a central committee setting prices. If buyers feel those prices are too high, they will walk away. But they aren't, as the bare shelves and auction results on gunbroker.com can attest.

Have a Merry Christmas.
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You too. [cheers]
 
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Serapis said:
I agree. But like I said before its a ethical issue in my eyes. It's there business they can do what they want. And so can I. Business', like Remsport, that are not raising prices will get my business when things calm down. Those who take advantage, will not get my return business.

And thats Capitalism my friends.
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I'm sorry but ifthere were suddenly a surge in demand in my business I would raise prices too. As demand dropped off I would likely, at some point, start dropping my prices. No one is going to feel bad for my business or any other that has to sell their product/services at a loss so why should business be penalizd for making a profit when they can?
 
I write to Midway regularly, usually after I order from other suppliers, begging them to start shipping components and ammo again. Below is the latest response...the letter I wrote is below the response.

Dear Sir,



Thanks for your email about that restriction. The problem is that the law is ambiguous as to what steps we need to follow in order to be in compliance with the law.



"Chapter 140, 121, 122B, Chapter 140, 121, "Ammunition" [is] cartridges or cartridge cases, primers (igniter), bullets or propellant powder designed for use in any firearm, rifle or shotgun. The term "ammunition" shall also mean tear gas cartridges, chemical mace or any device or instrument which contains or emits a liquid, gas, powder or any other substance designed to incapacitate. No person shall sell ammunition in the commonwealth unless duly licensed."



You'll notice the law requires us to be licensed, but doesn't specify whether that's a statewide license or whether we need to be licensed in each town of the state. Until that issue is clarified or somebody in a position of responsibility signs something protecting MidwayUSA from prosecution we're unable to ship components there, I'm afraid.



Please let us know if we can be of further help. Thanks for your business!



Sincerely,

Brian

Customer Service

MidwayUSA










From:
Sent: Sunday, December 9, 2012 05:07 PM
To: MidwayUSA Customer Service
Subject: please ship to Massachusetts.






Another attempt to get Midway to ship ammo and components to Massachusetts. It is not illegal to do so. See below. Check the link to Massachusetts Gun Owners’ Action League.



http://www.goal.org/masslawpages/ammoinfo.html
 
PennyPincher said:
I'm sorry but ifthere were suddenly a surge in demand in my business I would raise prices too. As demand dropped off I would likely, at some point, start dropping my prices. No one is going to feel bad for my business or any other that has to sell their product/services at a loss so why should business be penalizd for making a profit when they can?
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Wouldn't it be ironic if the gov stepped in and charged the gun dealers with price gouging, as they do to food markets and gas stations who raise their prices in times of emergency.
 
Here is another point to consider. This may seem like a goldmine for those gun shops in the short term, but I'm sure they are looking at a very uncertain future. Right now their supply chain has dried up. They can't get more inventory if they wanted to. The profits they make out of what it in their shop right now may have to last them a while.
 
PennyPincher said:
I'm sorry but ifthere were suddenly a surge in demand in my business I would raise prices too. As demand dropped off I would likely, at some point, start dropping my prices. No one is going to feel bad for my business or any other that has to sell their product/services at a loss so why should business be penalizd for making a profit when they can?
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+1 I bought what I could when I could find it. Now I'll just sit back and wait for things to die down.
 
PennyPincher said:
I'm sorry but ifthere were suddenly a surge in demand in my business I would raise prices too. As demand dropped off I would likely, at some point, start dropping my prices. No one is going to feel bad for my business or any other that has to sell their product/services at a loss so why should business be penalizd for making a profit when they can?
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Exactly. But I'm sure the people so offended by gouging pay extra when a business is selling at a loss -- just to keep things fair. [thinking]

The only way to appease these gouging experts is not to play. Just don't sell. I have some stuff I could see selling at today's prices, but no way am I going to bother given the drama and whining out there. It's not worth it. Now the impact of people avoiding the market is even higher prices, but I'm sure the gouging experts understand that.

I don't know the minds of other people, but only can observe their actions. If I see a man who wants to exchange one thing for another I conclude he did it because he wanted to. He prefers the cash to the item (the seller) or the item to the cash (the buyer) and is better off after the transaction than before. Self-evidently, the buyer picks the seller with the best combination of product and price he can find. The seller offers the highest price the market will bear. Everybody wins. How this can be criticized in any way is a mystery to me. Fundamentally it must be that the sideline complainers believe they know what is good for the buyer, and more so than the buyer himself. That, of course, is ridiculous.

When called out for this, the gouging experts always fall back on "fairness", or, the ultimately empty position of "just having an opinion". Well, their opinion is either meaningless or worse. And "fair" is either a concept of socialism or the refuge of children fighting over a toy. Grown ups realize that nothing is fair. The best we can hope for is freedom to act in our own best interests. There is no question that all buyers and sellers acting freely in this market are doing just that.
 
qmmo said:
I am in MA, have an FFL and Midway will not ship anything they "think" might be restricted to me. No muzzle loaders....no components of any kind, etc. They aren't the only ones that won't ship to a FFL holder in MA either. They all have some sort of cranial/rectal dysfunction I guess....
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Didn't Marsha sue them though - for selling ammo to Mass residents online. So I can understand their position...
 
economist said:
Fundamentally it must be that the sideline complainers believe they know what is good for the buyer, and more so than the buyer himself.

When called out for this, the gouging experts always fall back on "fairness".
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Well, it is all about fairness. So I do think that a group of experts can best decide what is fair. I've also seen plenty of people buy the wrong gun, so a group of experts should decide who can buy what -- since we have the expertise, we know more than the novice and can make sure they have the right gun for them. Since we know so much about the correct price and the correct gun, we will also tell the manufacturers what they should manufacture and make sure that they hire the correct skilled labor to do so.

This will entail a lot of work, of course, so we will have many such groups. These many groups will all need a lot of coordination, so there will need to be a central group to do the coordination. Perhaps we can call it the Central Committee. I'll be glad to help that Central Committee, so I'll volunteer myself to be the Secretary.

You can all send me your applications for committee membership, along with a list of your gun, magazine, ammunition, and ammo component collections -- if you own any gun that isn't right for you, I'll send someone by to pick it up and pay you a price that the Central Committee deems to be fair.
 
The problem I have isn't with free market economics, it's with the manipulation of the market. When there's limited supply, and the market may close forever with no notice, things get weird.

I don't personally believe that Dianne Feinstein is running around lining up votes on the QT for California-style "what you have now is all you'll have forever" legislation that hits with little or no notice, but I don't think it's at all impossible either.
 
I love how no matter how many times we say " we get it we just dont like it" We're pontificated upon by economist experts telling us how it works and that we are apparently to imbecilic to possibly comprehend it. [rolleyes]

It rains on your day off in june, it's nature, it's how it works and thats just the way it goes, you still don't like it and piss and moan, eventually the sun comes out and everyone is happy again. Same thing, for crying out loud. [hmmm] enough with telling us how du du dummmm we are
 
The price a seller paid for their product is not material.

Some of you think, for the sake of camaraderie, a seller who holds product they bought at lower price, should consider selling below market rates near their original cost.

To be consistent, for the sake of camaraderie, during a price downturn a buyer should be willing to pay above market prices to a seller who bought at a higher cost.

Any buyers willing to do this? You can't have your cake and eat it too...
 
This video was made a few weeks before the Sandy Hook massacre:

[video=youtube_share;Y88VNIeNSZo]http://youtu.be/Y88VNIeNSZo[/video]

They were getting $150 for stripped lowers back then ????

Those racks behind them are probably empty now. [sad2]
 
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HKdrummer said:
This is hilarious [laugh][rofl]

http://www.skdtac.com/Magpul-PMAG-Gen-M3-30-rnd-AR-M4-p/mag.502.htm
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lol this mag wasn't a**h*** proof
magazine+backwards.jpg
 
I think the part that we have missed in this debate is the number of people ACTUALLY selling their ARs. I have never seen so many ARs selling in the classifieds since i arrived here in 2009.

I would like to call this price point not price gouging. We all know everything has it's price. Sometimes it is how low you have to go to sell something. Sometimes it it how high it has to go before you are willing to part with it.

I honestly don't see people price gouging. I see people saying, hey that amount of cash is more than this is worth to me!

I love my current car. I am thinking of keeping it forever and letting it become a classic. I paid $25K for my car. i have had it for 5 years. I have no plans to sell it . If someone tells me the market is now $30K in its current condition,,,,,,,,,,Here are the keys.......
 
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amb said:
The problem I have isn't with free market economics, it's with the manipulation of the market. When there's limited supply, and the market may close forever with no notice, things get weird.

I don't personally believe that Dianne Feinstein is running around lining up votes on the QT for California-style "what you have now is all you'll have forever" legislation that hits with little or no notice, but I don't think it's at all impossible either.
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Yes. The market manipulator here is the threat of additional government regulation. Who knows what the future will bring. This may blow over with little or no new laws and prices back to where they were a month ago. Or, we may get an outcome where the (legal) prices of some items go to infinity. With a future outcome unknown, but almost certainly in that range, it's no mystery why prices now are within the range and substantially higher than a month ago. I can see why there are people out there with no AR, no mags, no ammo, etc who see this and are willing to pay a lot right now. With limited supply, the result on prices makes sense. Nothing sells guns (and screws with the gun market) like a credible threat from government.
 
There's nothing "ethical" about market prices. Market prices, when left unencumbered by government edicts, are good sources of information. That information conveys some important stuff to the buyer and the seller. A spike in price would infer that there's some sort of scarcity or perceived scarcity of something. Case in point is Pmags going from $12.50 to almost 10x that amount in the period of 72 hours.

That's information.

What you do with it is up to you. In fact, if I had more Pmags, I'd consider unloading them at that price too.
 
Tenchi said:
this photos been circulating for some time. anyway, she actually has two magazines clipped together.
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If there is a second magazine clipped to it, turned in the opposite direction, why can't we see it below the rifle, in front of the other magazine?
 
Wtf is the deal with pmags.....are the followers laced with gold?

What is so special about them?
 
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KMS said:
Wtf is the deal with pmags.....are the followers laced with gold?

What is so special about them?
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i have some pmag followers in the other room, can confirm they are in fact gold-infused. will sell each follower for $25. buyer pays actual shipping costs.
 
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