The Price Gouging/Everything Shortage Megathread

Status
Not open for further replies.
There's no such thing as gouging. There's a perceived risk that the availability of these items is going to be diminished sometime very soon.

This is how markets work. In a free market, there's no central planning authority that says "This lower receiver is to be sold at $X, and this fully assembled unit is to be sold at $X + $1500."

Exactly.

Stop bitching about the "gouging" and go out and buy gun stuff. If the AR's are too expensive - then you should be buying up fancy wooden stocked hunting rifles. The point of the "buying spree" is to send a big FU to the government. I stopped in Kittery yesterday - the black rifle shelf was bare - if people were really clued into the message they should be sending to the government - then all the hunting rifle and shotgun shelves would have been bare too.

It's called voting with your wallet and everybody should be doing it.

For those of you who can't seem to understand this - you need to read this:

http://www.garynorth.com/public/10459.cfm

I want to go over in considerable detail the fundamental issues of the Second Amendment to the United States Constitution: the right to keep and bear arms.

There is a great deal of emotional commitment in the United States to one of two extreme positions: (1) the right of every non-felon adult citizen of the United States to own any weapon he chooses, and (2) the right of the government of the United States to outlaw the ownership of firearms.

I am hard core. I would extend this right to convicted felons who have served their time or have made restitution to their victims. I would not let the federal government revoke this fundamental right of citizenship.

To understand the Second Amendment, we need to go back to something like the beginning.

FEUDALISM AND POLITICAL SOVEREIGNTY

In English common law in medieval times, meaning as late as the 13th century, the feudal legal system limited ownership of military weapons to members of the knightly class, and those classes over the knights. In other words, the ownership of weapons had to do with legal status.

The common man, meaning a peasant, could not be called into military service. Military service was a matter of inheritance of land and status, and this inheritance mandated military training, which created a military mindset. Thus, the weapons associated with this class, which was also a matter of social status, were not to be shared with the peasantry. This placed the peasantry at an obvious disadvantage in terms of military power. It also extended to political power. They had little political power. They were represented mainly by priests.

One of the marks of the knightly class was the right to wear armor. Armor was heavy. So, a peasant who had a simple walking staff was in a position to knock a knight off his horse. A knight in shining armor who was lying on the ground could not get up by himself. He was defenseless. So, the fact that a peasant was not allowed to carry a sword, or a bow and arrow, did not necessarily place him at a complete disadvantage, one-on-one, when dealing with a knight on horseback. It all depended on the tactics of surprise. The knight who was not expecting to be knocked off his horse might be at a disadvantage.

Peasants early on learned how to use walking sticks as weapons. Peasants could not be deprived of their walking sticks. So, they retained a degree of power which was not legally associated with their class. The movie scene of Robin Hood, an outlaw from the knightly class, battling Little John on a log over a stream was unlikely. Little John would easily have killed him. Knights were not trained in the use of staffs.

Anyone who possessed expensive weapons began with a competitive advantage in the use of power. The knightly class was careful to guard its legal rights. Magna Carta was a document created by the barons to defend their rights against the king. These rights were jealously guarded both against intrusions of power from below, as well as any intrusions from above. It was part of a hierarchical social and legal social order.

There is no question that, under most circumstances, the knightly class could deal with the peasants in the field of military battle. There were peasant rebellions from time to time. But, over the centuries, the knightly class did prevail against attempts by the peasants to overturn the legal status of the knightly class.

One of the advantages of this system was that civilians, meaning peasants and the people who lived in towns, were to be left alone by the warriors. They were not to be slaughtered in a military confrontation. Warriors were to do battle with other warriors. Warriors were not to use the specialized implements of warfare against civilians. This was a good arrangement for civilians.

GUNPOWDER

Gunpowder signaled the end of feudalism. It did not cause this decline, but it accompanied it. Armies became professional. Mercenaries appeared. Legal access to weapons was no longer based on birth and legal status. With the demise of the feudal order after the 14th century, and the rise of professional armies, which were funded by taxation rather than by a grant of land by the king to specific families, access to military training became available to common men. The more that the armies depended upon conscription, or payment by the central government, the greater the demands for the right to vote by the lower classes.

This demand became open during the Puritan revolution of the 1640s in England. Oliver Cromwell's New Model Army was made up of commoners as well as members of the higher social orders. Puritans believed in the exercise of the franchise in their local congregations. English Puritans were Congregationalists. They did not believe in a hierarchy of bishops, nor did they even believe in the hierarchy of presbyteries. Presbyterianism was a Scottish concept, not an English Puritan concept. So, with the triumph of Cromwell and the New Model Army, the issue of the franchise became an important political issue. Debates were held in 1647 within the New Model Army over what constituted the right to vote. The Levelers, who were not Communists, believed that the franchise should be extended to members of the New Model Army, irrespective of their wealth. This was opposed by the upper classes, including Cromwell, but there was an open debate over the issue. Cromwell's son-in-law, Ireton, argued for wealth, meaning personally owned land or money, as the basis of the right to vote. Rainsboro, a representative of the Levelers, argued that mere residence in the land should qualify a man to vote.

With the coming of the rifle in the 18th century, it became possible for independent farmers -- "peasants" -- to purchase the implements of war. These could be used for hunting. Civilians were still not part of the warrior class, but as the price of weaponry fell, beginning in the early 18th century, a shift of political power also began to take place.

In the second half of the 18th century, the common citizen in the British colonies of North America possessed a rifle. In most cases he was a man of the countryside. He had the ability to use it. For the first time, weapons that were available to common people had equal firepower to weapons available to the central government.



The American Revolution was a revolution of common people who were armed with weapons. The long rifle, fired from a distance, was a formidable weapon. A man who could shoot straight at a distance of several hundred yards could kill an officer on horseback. Officers wore special uniforms. This enabled their troops to identify who was in charge. They rode on horseback, above the troops. There was a universal agreement among the warriors of Western Europe that they would not target the officers. This, of course, was an agreement among officers.

The Americans honored no such agreement. Americans would target the officers from hundreds of yards away. The chain of command of British troops was disrupted by the American rifle. This was considered unsportsmanlike. But the Americans did not honor the same rules and sportsmanship.

This is why the militias were the formidable opponents of the British Army. George Washington only had two major victories, Trenton in 1776 (won by surprise) and Yorktown in 1781 (won by the French Navy). His army was usually unable to make direct confrontations in the field with the British Army. In contrast, militia units, firing from a distance against massed armies, and then running into the woods, could not be dealt with by British Army tacticians. The British armies were always tied to the cities. They could not venture far into the countryside to get food, because too many of them would be gunned down by militia members. They were dependent upon the British Navy to deliver supplies to them.

It was therefore impossible for the British to win that war. For as long as the Americans would stay in decentralized units, firing from a distance into the organized troops of the British, the British could not extend military control, and therefore political control, over the Americans. The Americans kept fighting until British taxpayers grew weary of funding the war, and until the French, during one 30-day period, provided the naval support to block the British Navy from resupplying Cornwallis's Army. George Washington got the credit, as did the centralized army under his command, but it was the militia that had kept the British at bay for the previous five years.


From the end of the Civil War until today, nations have been committed to what is sometimes called second-generation warfare. These are armies, navies, and air forces that can assemble massed firepower, using highly precise and very expensive weapons. These military units no longer can consistently defeat guerrilla movements on the ground. Fourth-generation warfare, meaning guerrilla warfare, is now reestablishing the sovereignty of the common man. Vietnam is the obvious case, but Afghanistan certainly qualifies. In the case of Afghanistan, the common man has always had the advantage. Nobody has been able to conquer Afghanistan for more than a few years. This goes back to Alexander the Great. The topography of the nation, and the commitment of its men to fight to the bitter end, meaning the bitter end of the invaders, has been such that these people have not been defeated.

The one Western European nation that fully understands this is Switzerland. Every Swiss male up the age of 60 is expected to serve in the military. Every Swiss male who serves in the military is expected to master the use of the rifle. It is a matter of honor to be a good rifleman in Switzerland. Bankers in their 50s compete against clerks in their 20s as marksmen. This has been true for five centuries. This is a nation of citizen warriors. It is a nation with a very weak central government, the weakest in the modern industrial world. The presidency is a symbolic office, and it is held on a rotation basis, with only one year as its term. Yet the nation's army can be mobilized in a matter of days. Switzerland has the longest history of political freedom of any continental European nation.

It is true that the Swiss surrender their ammo back to the local armory at the end of each summer's training. It is also true that the political tradition of democracy is so deeply ingrained that it would be impossible for any Swiss government to refuse to return those weapons the following summer. The Swiss are not a disarmed population. They simply let the government store the ammo during the year. The attitude is not that the government lets the citizens have access to weapons. The attitude is that the citizens allow the government to store the ammo. The mentality is completely different from the gun control advocates in the United States.

In every nation except Switzerland, gun control advocates want to centralize the ownership of any weapon that could be used systematically against agents of the government. This is not a random outlook. All the arguments about reduced crime are refuted by the statistics of increased crime whenever the government confiscates the guns of the population. Guns are as easily available to the criminal class as illegal drugs are available to the citizens and all other residents.

Gun control advocates insist that the centralization of gun ownership into the hands of the monopolistic government is a moral obligation. Why is it a moral obligation? It is a moral obligation because these people really do believe that the central government possesses legitimate original political sovereignty, an exclusive sovereignty, over the weapons that could be used against the central government.

It is one of those peculiarities that conservatives who say they believe in the right of gun ownership, and who sometimes even say that this is a means of defense against tyranny, are also in favor of invading foreign nations, when those foreign nations have adopted the concept of universal gun ownership that is comparable to the philosophy of American conservatism. The well-armed "little people" in Middle Eastern countries are able to defeat American invading troops, just as others like them did in Vietnam, precisely because the decentralization that is made possible by a diffusion of gun ownership and explosives is effective in combating the expansion of centralized political and military control. In other words, American troops cannot defeat these tiny countries, precisely because of widespread ownership of effective weapons that can be used against the occupying troops.

MILITIAS: REAL AND PHONY

I want to make it clear that I do not believe that it is possible, under anything like present conditions, for Americans to take up arms against the central government. In a period of financial crisis, in which the central government can no longer deliver the goods economically, and which therefore begins to lose its power to control local communities, there may be confrontations between armed camps. The obvious armed camps that I am thinking of are the gangs. The gangs are well armed, and in comparison with most small-town police departments, far better armed than the law enforcement agencies. The police know this. The gangs are ruthless, and they have something like a military chain of command. In a time of national economic breakdown, there will be some communities in which the gangs possess primary authority. This is true today in much of Latin America.


The citizens of the United States are so far removed from the citizens of the American colonies in 1776 that it would be inconceivable to organize a military resistance to the central government. I do not suggest that this be done. I do suggest that there is a relationship between the ownership of firearms and the assertion of political sovereignty. I do insist that the right to keep and bear arms is a symbolic affirmation of the ultimate political sovereignty of individual citizens over the central government. This was understood in 1790, and it should be understood today. I do not think it is.

I think the advocates of gun control understand very little about this symbolic relationship. They are usually advocates of the right to vote. They officially come down on the side of citizens' rights. But they do not understand the symbolic nature of the right to keep and bear arms as an affirmation of the authority of the citizen, armed with a gun and armed with the right to vote, to veto the decisions of political rulers through politics.

The defenders of Second Amendment liberties understand far better than the gun control movement that there is a connection between the right to keep and bear arms and the fundamental assertion of political sovereignty by the citizenry. They understand that the federal government's violation of Second Amendment liberties is part of a comprehensive program to centralize political power and to overcome the ability of citizens to use the ballot box to resist the extension of this centralized political power.


I am arguing, therefore, that for most gun owners, most of the time, the ownership of firearms is more symbolic than practical. This is also true of gun control advocates. I do not think most gun control advocates believe that there is a vast right-wing conspiracy that is chomping at the bit to take up arms, get organized, leave their middle-class lifestyle behind, and overturn the United States government. If any gun control advocate believes this, he has approximately the same connection with reality as the weekend militia member does, stomping around in the countryside with his buddies.

Symbols are important. A citizen who has the right to keep and bear arms, even though he is not planning to join the state militia, which is in fact an arm of the federal government, understands that he possesses a degree of sovereignty that is not possessed by citizens in nations that prohibit widespread firearm ownership. He understands that he is in a unique situation. He still has the fundamental marks of political sovereignty, namely, firearms. His firearms testify to the fact that the central government does not yet feel sufficiently confident to confiscate his firearms in the name of the central government's exclusive monopoly of violence. His firearms testify to the fact that he is still a citizen, and that he still possesses rights that politicians and bureaucrats cannot legally overturn.

The reason why gun control advocates want this right overturned is because they are in favor of centralized political control. They believe that their class, namely, the intellectual class, is in control of the agencies of civil government. For the most part, this assumption is correct. They assume that their class, and only their class, has the wisdom to allocate weapons. They believe that their class alone possesses the right to determine which citizen has access to weapons, under which circumstances, and for how long.



So stop bitching about the high prices - and go and buy a goddam gun and tell the government and gun banners to go **** themselves.
 
Market price is market price. People here will be singing a different tune if people like Fiestein ever get their way.

I don't think based on what we've been seeing politicians say that this is an irrational panic. There are many, many people who don't own as much as many of us here do. They don't want to be left out.

I actually take it as a great sign so many people are forcing up demand. Demand means more gun owners and more gun owners means more problems for government wanting to limit supply. I hope demand stays is high and everyone is out continually buying. It sends a great message to scumbags in Washington and state houses.
 
After perusing Gunbroker for a while, it warms my heart to see just how absolutely willing people are to take advantage of situations to screw over their fellow man/enthusiasts. $900-1000+ for Century(!) WASR 10s. Capitalism in it's finest hour.
 
Exactly.

Stop bitching about the "gouging" and go out and buy gun stuff. If the AR's are too expensive - then you should be buying up fancy wooden stocked hunting rifles. The point of the "buying spree" is to send a big FU to the government. I stopped in Kittery yesterday - the black rifle shelf was bare - if people were really clued into the message they should be sending to the government - then all the hunting rifle and shotgun shelves would have been bare too.

It's called voting with your wallet and everybody should be doing it.

For those of you who can't seem to understand this - you need to read this:

http://www.garynorth.com/public/10459.cfm


















So stop bitching about the high prices - and go and buy a goddam gun and tell the government and gun banners to go **** themselves.

Basically we won against Britain by using the tactics the Taliban use in Afghanistan and the Vietnamese used in Vietnam. Big governments fight on large scale, rebellions are death by a thousand cuts.
 
After perusing Gunbroker for a while, it warms my heart to see just how absolutely willing people are to take advantage of situations to screw over their fellow man/enthusiasts. $900-1000+ for Century(!) WASR 10s. Capitalism in it's finest hour.

That's EXACTLY what it is. Supply and demand.

If people had been paying attention we wouldn't be having this problem in the first place. This is the market telling you that you screwed up by waiting.

Making mistakes should come with a price.

$1000 WASR's are the price.
 
That's EXACTLY what it is. Supply and demand.

If people had been paying attention we wouldn't be having this problem in the first place. This is the market telling you that you screwed up by waiting.

Making mistakes should come with a price.

$1000 WASR's are the price.

Exactly.
 
I was at Rileys when they opened today. There was a line to get in.

548694_10152371314135085_186780558_n_zps9b8e24bb.jpg


AR section EMPTY. NFA section had only a few items on the wall.

ALL 5.56 is GONE. ALL 7.62x39 is GONE.

There was some .308 by magtech for $0.62 a shot.

There was pistol ammo, but even that had dwindled to barely anything. ALL prices for bulk ammo are gone. I did not get an ETA on when they would have more ammo.

ALL magazines GONE. Only ones left are 6.8SPC. No pmags, no metal mags, nothing.

Handguns were also getting sparsely populated.

I then stopped by Shooters Outpost since they opened an hour later. I got there at 9:50 and was the sixth person in line. By the time they opened There were 5-10 people BEHIND me in line.

All magazines, GONE. All new semiauto rifles, GONE. They still had some Chinese SKS's for $240. NO BULK AMMO except for some .45. Handguns were starting to get more sparse.
 
There was some .308 by magtech for $0.62 a shot.
I have no problem getting sub MOA out of my JP .308 with Federal 168 gold medal match. The magtech .308 gives fist sized groups at 100 yards.
 
Where are these $500 lowers? I see stripped lowers for 135ish. I was just looking at a few places last night, just checking out prices.

Currently $135 is the kind of price you will get from people who are out, backordered, maintaining a waiting list, lying about "in stock" status, or giving you special access because you are a regular or friend of the shop. In stock lowers in arms length transactions tend to be a bit pricier.

It's like the old price matching joke "Yeah, I know the other guy down the street has a lower price, but we'd be quote a price even lower than his if we were out of them like he is".
 
Cleaned my AK

So I bought my first AK (I only have 2) for $399 almost 4 years ago. This was from Amherst trading post no less with 200 rounds of ammo. (yes I know, I have learned much since then).

Anyway, I had heard the "AK Myth" and read many articles about torture tests with AKs. In the mud , in the snow blah blah blah and it still runs!!! I decide to try this out and commit to never clean my AK until it breaks, I would not do a real torture test after all, it is $399!

I even bought a second underfolder that I have never shot as a back up to this experirment.. Well 4000-5000 rounds later or so it still has not broken, but something else has happened


This $399 POS is now a $900 POS....

Well I guess I have to take care of it now. [rolleyes] so I cleaned it.
 
Supply on demand is ok with me, but when NES Green member pulling out off a deal after agreeing on the price, is still gives me a bad tast.
it happend here with me and member that wont mention his name. we were talking about his rifle while ago before the nightmare in Newtown in couple of days after the shooting in CT we agreed on the price, its actually was his asking price. I pm him with a day when i can meet and finalize the deal, but have not heard from him for couple of day. then in couple of day he send me pm stating that some one offer him a more $$$ for his rifle but dont have a cash now and will look for it... wtf, I got the feeling he just playing a game, but i dont wont to pay more and i hate these games. in any case 2 days later after our last contact he posting his rifle in NES classified for sale but asking $700 more.
look im not winning or complaining but if we agreed on the price be a man of your word but if you decided to get more money giving current situation just be upfront and just say you feel that you need more $$$. I'll understand and respect that, but feeding me with some BS just making me lose fate even for our NES fellow members.
by the way, it wasnt an AR

That's EXACTLY what it is. Supply and demand.

If people had been paying attention we wouldn't be having this problem in the first place. This is the market telling you that you screwed up by waiting.

Making mistakes should come with a price.

$1000 WASR's are the price.
 
Last edited:
So I bought my first AK (I only have 2) for $399 almost 4 years ago. This was from Amherst trading post no less with 200 rounds of ammo. (yes I know, I have learned much since then).

Anyway, I had heard the "AK Myth" and read many articles about torture tests with AKs. In the mud , in the snow blah blah blah and it still runs!!! I decide to try this out and commit to never clean my AK until it breaks, I would not do a real torture test after all, it is $399!

I even bought a second underfolder that I have never shot as a back up to this experirment.. Well 4000-5000 rounds later or so it still has not broken, but something else has happened


This $399 POS is now a $900 POS....

Well I guess I have to take care of it now. [rolleyes] so I cleaned it.

pussy. [wink]

cleaning AKs is for chumps. i have never cleaned a single one i own. the most clean it gets is the shit that comes off on my hands when i strip it down.
 
pussy. [wink]

cleaning AKs is for chumps. i have never cleaned a single one i own. the most clean it gets is the shit that comes off on my hands when i strip it down.

ok, no offense taken, I have met "the banana with the Jeweled holster" and know he likes to joke
but WHY TF did you break it down? were you perhaps cleaning it? I haven't had it apart since i bought it.
I think you just outed yourself
 
I then stopped by Shooters Outpost since they opened an hour later. I got there at 9:50 and was the sixth person in line. By the time they opened There were 5-10 people BEHIND me in line. All magazines, GONE. All new semiauto rifles, GONE. They still had some Chinese SKS's for $240. NO BULK AMMO except for some .45. Handguns were starting to get more sparse.

Had a chance to talk to Jim when I stopped by the Outpost this afternoon,. He has the stock (not merely promised by a distributor) to refill those AR racks after Christmas. He says to watch their Facebook page to know when more rifles and ammo will be on the floor.
 
Supply on demand is ok with me, but when NES Green member pulling out a deal after agreeing on the price, is still gives me a bad tast.

Green membership doesnt mean shit.

Edit: and I dont know how to read/comprehend what I'm seeing
 
Last edited:
Question im asking does Shooters outpost / MFL sell long guns to mass residents ? They should know we pin the stocks and flash on but heard they are sticklers and the gun wont be sold unless its already in a ban configuration.
 
I should put my spikes up for 299$ [wink]

I wonder if someone would really buy it?

A Spikes lower should fetch a premium price.

The way I see it is this: I have rifles and spare lowers marinating in my safe. I won't be building up another lower anytime soon, couldn't find parts now anyway. If people are panic buying this stuff for way more than what it was worth a few weeks ago, I want in on the profits being made.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top Bottom