Ultimate SHTF rifle???

[Broc Tuah]

I think that’s a little dubious. AR maintenance is pretty low and it can easily be done by the user with simple tools. Keep a few cheap and light extractors on hand and you’re good to go.

What are people going to do in the apocalypse when their AK wears out a barrel?

The one benefit of the AK is that it operates better with less lube.

The AK won't wear out the barrel. The local abandoned ammo warehouse will run out of ammo before that happens.

But notice how you said you need to keep a FEW extractors for the AR, therefore validating the point the AR would be a pain in the a**.

 

[Agnotology]

effectiveness is the only thing that matters. If you're shooting something, it's because you have a desired effect. The variables you name only exist to modify your effect. Since civilians can't (easily) get AP ammo for 5.7, I see an expensive 22 mag.

I was going more for the point you can make just about any caliber have any desired effect, excluding some smaller cartridges.

Which is to say, you can load a 9mm with a round that butters level 2. You can also load it with a round that devastates flesh. IIRC, 5.7 FMJ out of a 16" barrel (ala PS90) reaches 3100 fps, which means it will reliably penetrate 2 and . I know SS190 and L191 can do the same out of a standard 5.7 on 3A, and with velocities closer to 2000 fps, but those are the hard to get ones.

 

[paul73]

suspect I would have an easier time fixing an AK than an AR.

in most scenarios AKs are not fixable nor would anyone even waste time to fix them.
as of AR15s - it is a local military caliber with shitload of ammo that will be available, well, pretty much always.
your basement stock will run out rather quick when you will start using it, and if it is all steel - not reloadable.

vz58 is a fine weapon, but any of my ARs is more accurate and construction wise, having several of them you get redundancy and all the spare parts you may ever need.
modular design and simplicity is what rules both glocks and ARs. with almost nothing that can brake in them to be a huge PITA to replace in field conditions.

 

[PappyM3]

The AK won't wear out the barrel. The local abandoned ammo warehouse will run out of ammo before thst happens.

But notice how you said you need to keep a FEW extractors for the AR, therefore validating the point the AR would be a pain in the a**.

AKs wear out barrels. It’s just the users don’t notice because either they don’t use their sights or never even zeroed. Maybe because they’re untrained. Maybe because the front sight was too canted to even work?

Seriously though. An extractor will last at least 5k rounds. They’re not exactly short use. And easily replaceable. The modularity of the AR and the ability for the user to replace everything is a big benefit.

But, it’s all a trade space and preference.

 

[Broc Tuah]

AKs wear out barrels. It’s just the users don’t notice because either they don’t use their sights or never even zeroed. Maybe because they’re untrained. Maybe because the front sight was too canted to even work?

Seriously though. An extractor will last at least 5k rounds. They’re not exactly short use. And easily replaceable. The modularity of the AR and the ability for the user to replace everything is a big benefit.

But, it’s all a trade space and preference.

I will take a rifle that has a barrel that will last between 15-30K rounds, over a rifle I need to carry spare parts for.

If you are talking real SHTF - if you don't have a collection of rifles by the time you shot over 15K rounds, I am not sure what you are doing.

Anyway, this won't happen. Most people can barely make it one week without meds.

 

[Picton]

Yeah. I think it's just that every time I think about SHTF (which is probably a lot more often than most people, but a lot less often than many NESers), I'm not imagining an endless round of massive gunfights, with me laying down constant suppressive fire in between barrel changes.

If I'm in that kind of trouble, facing a situation that requires a heavy volume of fire like that, and given that I have insufficient buddies to help be my security element, I'm probably not going to need my rifle all that long. If you know what I'm saying.

 

[paul73]

AKs wear out barrels.

we just talked about it in the other thread with the worn out AK to do a 12MOA groups at 100yds. while new ones are usually about 4-5 MOA good. it is just not made for accuracy.
vz58 as i understand can have more decent accuracy when new, but, it is not a subject for longevity, nor will it be as easy as to undo one nut to swap out the barrel.

as of FAL and other exotics - if one can get 3-4 of them, again, in order to have enough redundancy and spares on hand - sure, but, i really see no point in it at all. to each his own, though.

 

[paul73]

over a rifle I need to carry spare parts for.

unbreakability of AKs is very, very overrated, to be honest. everything brakes, eventually, but not everything is same easily repairable.

 

[Tartakovsky]

AKs wear out barrels. It’s just the users don’t notice because either they don’t use their sights or never even zeroed. Maybe because they’re untrained. Maybe because the front sight was too canted to even work?

Seriously though. An extractor will last at least 5k rounds. They’re not exactly short use. And easily replaceable. The modularity of the AR and the ability for the user to replace everything is a big benefit.

But, it’s all a trade space and preference.

You never notice because AKs were never accurate to begin with.

 

[Tartakovsky]

I will take a rifle that has a barrel that will last between 15-30K rounds, over a rifle I need to carry spare parts for.

If you are talking real SHTF - if you don't have a collection of rifles by the time you shot over 15K rounds, I am not sure what you are doing.

Anyway, this won't happen. Most people can barely make it one week without meds.

Hey, the only med I take is Advair for my asthma. (i’m f***ed when the apocalypse comes).

 

[Mesatchornug]

Yeah. I think it's just that every time I think about SHTF (which is probably a lot more often than most people, but a lot less often than many NESers), I'm not imagining an endless rounds of massive gunfights, with me laying down constant suppressive fire in between barrel changes.

If I'm in that kind of trouble, facing a situation that requires a heavy volume of fire like that, and given that I have insufficient buddies to help be my security element, I'm probably not going to need my rifle all that long. If you know what I'm saying.

At the end of the day, it's all a fashion show anyways. Adidas, Boss, Illig - didn't matter. Wear what makes you feel sexy, die with a sword in your hands and go straight to heaven.

 

[Broc Tuah]

At the end of the day, it's all a fashion show anyways. Adidas, Boss, Illig - didn't matter. Wear what makes you feel sexy, die with a sword in your hands and go straight to heaven.

It is more than a fashion show, it is a way of life.

 

[Broc Tuah]

You never notice because AKs were never accurate to begin with.

Was second at the NES Excruciathlon using an AK.

While someone with an AR was first, there were like 12 other teams below us, all using AR.

 

[Tartakovsky]

Was second at the NES Excruciathlon using an AK.

While someone with an AR was first, there were like 12 other teams below us, all using AR.

2nd place is 1st loser

 

[Tartakovsky]

 

[PappyM3]

Yeah. I think it's just that every time I think about SHTF (which is probably a lot more often than most people, but a lot less often than many NESers), I'm not imagining an endless rounds of massive gunfights, with me laying down constant suppressive fire in between barrel changes.

If I'm in that kind of trouble, facing a situation that requires a heavy volume of fire like that, and given that I have insufficient buddies to help be my security element, I'm probably not going to need my rifle all that long. If you know what I'm saying.

Indeed. Which makes self repair more important to me. I’m not going after all sorts of “battlefield pickups” after firefights to keep going. I’m going to keep using what I’m comfortable and confident with. And if I ever need to repair something, I can do it myself and continue to use what I’ve grown confident with.

I will take a rifle that has a barrel that will last between 15-30K rounds, over a rifle I need to carry spare parts for.

If you are talking real SHTF - if you don't have a collection of rifles by the time you shot over 15K rounds, I am not sure what you are doing.

Anyway, this won't happen. Most people can barely make it one week without meds.

That’s all fair and part of the trade space/preference.

 

[PappyM3]

Regarding 22lr, I don’t know why people want the weight and space taken up by a 10/22. You’re not getting that much extra velocity over a 5-6” Buckmark or Ruger MkIV. Sure, you get a stock, but I don’t see a use for a 22lr where I wouldn’t something to rest the pistol on, and you’re not shooting very far.

Now, for a SHTF shotgun, this is very appealing:
- Break action 12 gauge cut to 18-20” and threaded for chokes
- A small bag full of inserts/adapters for:
* 20 gauge
* 410 gauge
* 357 mag
* 44 mag
* 30-30
* 45-70

 

[DarthRevan]

Was second at the NES Excruciathlon using an AK.

While someone with an AR was first, there were like 12 other teams below us, all using AR.

I miss it something fierce.

I really want to run it again now that I can shoot better and have a better understanding of my gear.

As far as having extra parts on hand… I’ll be ordering a handful of bolts this week, and saving for some replacement barrels.

Again, becoming a sweet f***ing loot box for local warlords.

 

[Mesatchornug]

I miss it something fierce.

I really want to run it again now that I can shoot better and have a better understanding of my gear.

I'm still chapped I never made one.

 

[DarthRevan]

I'm still chapped I never made one.

I really need to talk to my club to see about interest in reviving it.

 

[paul73]

Was second at the NES Excruciathlon using an AK.
While someone with an AR was first, there were like 12 other teams below us, all using AR.

it is a rather pointless comparison, really. it all depends upon a situation. if you will be an active militia member - you will have no issues with guns availability, and armorers will take care of everything.
if you are on your own, long term enough - like 50 years plus long - then you'll need to plan ahead.
and if true socialism is coming here - you better plan ahead now and have some cosmoline on hand as well, for preservation.

 

[Mesatchornug]

Again, becoming a sweet f***ing loot box for local warlords.

Philosophically, this might be the best reason to have a completely weird collection with like 2 boxes of ammo for each.

Sure, you got me and now my stuff is yours. Tell me that 25ACP Jennings isn't an albatross.

This ain't a [video game] dawg.

 

[Broc Tuah]

I miss it something fierce.

I really want to run it again now that I can shoot better and have a better understanding of my gear.

As far as having extra parts on hand… I’ll be ordering a handful of bolts this week, and saving for some replacement barrels.

Again, becoming a sweet f***ing loot box for local warlords.

Your house is going to be like the random chest you open in video games and get all these parts and stuff that can be used or traded.

 

[Broc Tuah]

it is a rather pointless comparison, really. it all depends upon a situation. if you will be an active militia member - you will have no issues with guns availability, and armorers will take care of everything.
if you are on your own, long term enough - like 50 years plus long - then you'll need to plan ahead.
and if true socialism is coming here - you better plan ahead now and have some cosmoline on hand as well, for preservation.

I disagree on the pointless comparison.

People b*tch about the AK not being super accurate (it was never meant to be), a big part of the excruciathlon was the shooting which added a lot of time if the team s*cked.

The point is, the rifle might not be as accurate as an AR at long range, but that doesn't matter if the user can't shoot.

And let's be honest, most people s*ck at shooting.

People spend too much time focusing on getting the most accurate rifle, yet all their shooting is with a gun supported on a bench, in a controlled environment, at a controlled pace. And many times those people can't even hit a paper plate at 50 yards ... or a car at 100 yards.

I dismiss all the accuracy comments and the people making them.

NES has this hard on that they will be some operator sniper on a hill taking people out and never running out of ammo thanks to the 50K rounds they purchased before the SHTF. When reality will be very different. The fact that people even worry about barrel life is proof of this.

 

[Chevy 2 65]

DD M4. No thermal optic. No magnification. Dot on top. IR laser/illuminator. L3harris gpnvg.

L3harris gpnvg. DAMN $$$$$$$$$

 

[Chevy 2 65]

Don't forget ...One is none, and 2 is one

 

[PappyM3]

I disagree on the pointless comparison.

People b*tch about the AK not being super accurate (it was never meant to be), a big part of the excruciathlon was the shooting which added a lot of time if the team s*cked.

The point is, the rifle might not be as accurate as an AR at long range, but that doesn't matter if the user can't shoot.

And let's be honest, most people s*ck at shooting.

People spend too much time focusing on getting the most accurate rifle, yet all their shooting is with a gun supported on a bench, in a controlled environment, at a controlled pace. And many times those people can't even hit a paper plate at 50 yards ... or a car at 100 yards.

I dismiss all the accuracy comments and the people making them.

NES has this hard on that they will be some operator sniper on a hill taking people out and never running out of ammo thanks to the 50K rounds they purchased before the SHTF. When reality will be very different. The fact that people even worry about barrel life is proof of this.

You do you. I’ll happily use a 1-2.5 MOA carbine over a 4-12 MOA carbine any day of the week, and be able to use that precision kneeling, standing, whatever. It’s not about long range. It’s about knowing where your bullet is going to go, even out to 100-300 yards. Dismiss whatever you want, but it doesn’t make it false.

But no, I won’t be some operator. I’ll be a guy trying to keep his family safe and trying to mind his own business. And being able to repair my own gun is part of that. It’s not even about wearing out a barrel (which is a factor eventually). But just the general ability for doing your own maintenance if anything happens to the gun. Ammo commonality with the military and most police departments doesn’t hurt either.

 

[DarkJoker33]

I've long been curious how many fellow Vz58 brethren we have on NES. I think of it as a fairly "niche" rifle, but I'm pleased to see so many of them in this thread.

Good taste, that's for sure.

I decide a few months back, that if I ever get a proper 7.62x39 rifle and replace my ARAK with it, its going to be a VZ58.
I like it more over the everyday AK's

 

[Picton]

I decide a few months back, that if I ever get a proper 7.62x39 rifle and replace my ARAK with it, its going to be a VZ58.
I like it more over the everyday AK's

It's a really well-designed rifle, but an AK has more charm.

Clearly, any proper x39 afficionado needs both.

 

[G4Y4HK]

Anyone here would pick something more concealable? I'm thinking a Sub2000 can easily hide inside a North Face or Patagonia pack and you wouldn't be mistaken for some "survivalist terrorist". Plus, 9mm lung buster is more than enough to take down anything in the world right?