Un-Popular or not: 40S&W vs 357 Sig

dcmdon said:
weehooker,

(small prostitute?)

How much hassle is reloading .357 sig?


Do you just full length resize it like any other handgun cartridge? Do you have to lube the brass like a rifle?
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After reading a bit, I thought it might be trouble but for what I'm doing (ie staying way under the pressure limits) it's a simple process. No where near the hassle of rifle cartridge reloading IMHO. I just run them through my Lee 3 Die set (for 357 sig) like any other round but do spray them quickly with one shot since the dies are steel . I also run them through the lee factory crimp die (in the fourth hole in my turret) to assure uniformity. The key to the sig is to get the bullet seated to the right depth and crimp it there (moderately). To be honest, the hardest part was finding the brass back when I started. p.s. I have settled on missouri brand 125 38 super cast bullets for good 9mm like performance at cheap prices.

p.s. "Wee Hooker" is the name of my (small) fishing boat which replaced the rightly named and larger "Ugly Hooker" :)
 
Sig Sauer Shooter said:
Same here, I had a Gen 3 Glock 31 that was fun to shoot. Finding ammo in stores was borderline scarce and very pricey, sort of like 10mm which I still have and won't get rid of. Doesn't the United States Secret Service use .357 Sig?
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I think so. I remember buying the G31 because at the time, I wanted to be an RI State Trooper and they shot P226 DAKs in .357SIG. Figured it'd be good to learn ahead of time.
 
kalash said:
I don't know anyone that shoots 357sig or 45gap. How easy is it to find these in stores? How much do they typically cost?




There is no handgun stopping power.
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I dont see it in stores too often but its not as hard to find as other calibers. I bought a few boxes of Speer Lawman at the gun parlor @ 45 a box which was outrageous but I was experimenting. On the other end of it I bought 500rds @ $130 recently. it can be found pretty regularly at Cabelas in Hudson though. Personally I carry Underwood 115gr JHP, just my personal preference.

Muzzle Velocity: 1550 fps Muzzle Energy: 614 ft. lbs.
 
drgrant said:



Typical .45 defense load at 230 gr going 900 fps = PF of 207
Typical .40 S&W defense load at 165 gr going 1200 fps = PF of 198.

It's also not harder to get .45 hotter than 900, either. On .40 you have no place to go, really.

Power factor isn't FPE but its useful in normalizing the energy levels of handgun cartridges into a measure of energy comprehensible by humans.

Then again the whole thing is kinda worthless... if you have something in 9mm with decent ammo as a baseline, everything at or above that is pretty much the same realm. I carried .40 for years and if I had to go back, I wouldn't care, 9mm, .40, .45... for wound ballistics, same ballparks. You might be able to make interesting arguments about 357 sig and 10mm, but even those are hard to qualify, although it's hard to argue that both of those are going to have better hard barrier penetration due to the velocities involved. .40 S&W and .45 are usually, but not always, ****ing terrible at this, but doesn't matter so much from the aspect of joe CCW whose odds of needing to shoot a BG through
something like auto glass is like, winning the inverse shitty powerball lottery.... TWICE.... on 2 consecutive days, on quick pick tickets. [rofl]

One major difference is .45 works better at knocking over bowling pins... but that has mostly to do with the fact that .45 bullets have better surface bearing on a bowling pin because of the diameter, and the bullets are going slow enough that they don't just rip through the pin... it's like throwing rocks at the pins, vs throwing darts at them 30% faster.

-Mike
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PF is very different from KE.

PF = Mass * Velocity
KE = Mass * Velocity(squared)

So if you double the speed of a projectile you double the PF but the KE increases by a factor of 4.

KE tends to favor lighter bullets moving faster.
 
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dcmdon said:
PF is very different from KE.

PF = Mass * Velocity
KE = Mass * Velocity(squared)

So if you double the speed of a projectile you double the PF but the KE increases by a factor of 4.

KE tends to favor lighter bullets moving faster.
Click to expand...

I stand corrected then, but it's still not that hard to beat .40 in KE with a .45. Just get a 185gr .45 bullet and make it go fast.

Also if you make the bullet weight drop a lot (like with piece of shit cartridges like 5.7 x 28) the muzzle energy at least, drops way off to being
less than most decent handgun cartridges. A lot less.

While we're on the topic if someone wants a caliber that truly sucks, well, there you go. I would take a .40 any day of the week over that
crap. [laugh]

-Mike
 
Un-Popular or not: 40S&W vs 357 Sig

If NES has taught me anything, .40 sucks and is for pussies, 10mm and 45 are the only calibers manly enough to carry in your semi auto.

I rarely if ever see 357 sig in stores 40 is there in droves and even 10mm has been pretty available lately
 
Lol I'm also a big 10mm guy once you go with a 10 the 40 does really feel like pussing out. I had a g33 which I liked shooting a ton but I hated carrying. Round was very fun to shoot. A little pricey but o well kids don't need college anyways right.
 
If the For Sale ads are any indication then yes the .40 is not very popular. A local dealer has a Sig P226 in 40 for $550. The gun looks like it was never fired. Just the fact that the ammo cost more and it would be a range gun keeps me from buying it. If it were 9mm it'd be $700+ all day.
 
I am one of the few 40 fans. I just got a G20 and it shoots pretty soft compared to my 40 reloads. The 40 is marketed with the worst load ever. 990 fps at 180 grain in general. I reload 155 hp to about 1225 fps way under sammi guidelines. Thats some decent power. I also load 180 grain to just under 1165 fps with longshot or CFE Pistol staying within sami guidelines. Federal 40s at 165 grain at 1130 are a good box ammo for practice and good pop. The best I have found. I have a 357 conversion in G23 and its not for everyone. Much more recoil than my G20. Most box ammo is 1350fps at 125gr. Its my favorite carry Defense caliber but it tires my hands out at about the 2 box point. It hits like a rhino from a short barrel compact so i like the Speer golddot standard box ammo that goes 1375 at 125gr. That would really ruin a would be assailants day.
 
I don't own a .40 but I don't really have a problem with it either. My 9s do pretty much everything .40s do but cheaper and with higher capacity. If I wanted to add another handgun caliber I wouldn't rule out a .40 just because guns and magazines are cheaper than 9.

Also I'd say that .40 is a lot more popular in other parts of the country than it is here. I read the firing line occasionally and over there quite a few people choose it. I might suggest that maybe elsewhere where standard capacity everything is readily available there isn't as much attention paid to cramming as many rounds as possible into your 24 year old Glock magazine.
 
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Bearman46 said:
I am one of the few 40 fans. I just got a G20 and it shoots pretty soft compared to my 40 reloads. The 40 is marketed with the worst load ever. 990 fps at 180 grain in general. I reload 155 hp to about 1225 fps way under sammi guidelines. Thats some decent power. I also load 180 grain to just under 1165 fps with longshot or CFE Pistol staying within sami guidelines. Federal 40s at 165 grain at 1130 are a good box ammo for practice and good pop. The best I have found. I have a 357 conversion in G23 and its not for everyone. Much more recoil than my G20. Most box ammo is 1350fps at 125gr. Its my favorite carry Defense caliber but it tires my hands out at about the 2 box point. It hits like a rhino from a short barrel compact so i like the Speer golddot standard box ammo that goes 1375 at 125gr. That would really ruin a would be assailants day.
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This. I have a G33 and a G23, .40 conversion barrel for the 33. In 357sig, it's a pocket rocket, but the ballastics on it are awesome.
 
During the last ammo shortage.....9mm could not be found anywhere, maybe 1 or 2 boxes of 45acp on some store shelves, .........but 40 was everywhere.
I'm fine with eveyone jumping on the 9mm bandwagon, it means theres more 40 ammo for me to buy!
 
If I could afford an actual submachinegun, I think .357 SIG would be a good round choice. Out of a 10" barrel it should be screaming fast, good feed reliability from the bottle necked cartridge, could use same suppressors as a 9mm if needed.

As I do not own one, or a pistol caliber SBR, I will stick with my 9s.
 
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Un-Popular or not: 40S&W vs 357 Sig

I kind of want a 357 sig barrel for my m&p but I don't want to add a caliber...


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I just got a G20 and it shoots pretty soft compared to my 40 reloads.
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todays commercial 10mm loading are pretty weak compared to when it was introduced. there are only a few manufacturers that load to it's full potential, buffalo bore being one, can't remember the others. i shoot full power reloads thru my g20.
 
Realtor MA said:
Your assumption that .40 isn't popular because it gets bashed here on NES is probably not correct.

This quote is from another forum;

I'm not saying it's true I'm just pointing out that your assumption could be very wrong.
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I hope to god you don't actually believe that the 40 Is by far the most common carry round among leo and civilians carrying.
 
mrmike7189 said:
During the last ammo shortage.....9mm could not be found anywhere, maybe 1 or 2 boxes of 45acp on some store shelves, .........but 40 was everywhere.
I'm fine with eveyone jumping on the 9mm bandwagon, it means theres more 40 ammo for me to buy!
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^this
the ballistics differences between 9mm and .40 are debated to death and more or less irrelevant. what's not irrelevant are the supply-demand curves for these cartridges. while I personally favor the 9mm, reality is that if there's a surge of ammo demand 9mm prices will jump whereas .40 is relatively insensitive given the rapidly declining demand.

my prediction is that in ~10 years 40S&W will be a dead cartridge. i could be wrong (wouldn't be first time), but given the improvements in materials the 10mm cartridge will likely take over. the increasing popularity of 10mm 1911's helping to drive this phenomenon. ruger's SR1911 in 10mm will help.

anyway for those debating the whole 9mm vs 40 thing, don't underestimate the favorable supply curve for .40, at least for now. once manufacturers cut back on production it might change.
 
Does over penetration really matter if you are going to miss most of the shots you take statistically in a firefight? Firefight scenario is more usually leo and military, I get it, but a missed bullet is all over penetration. I would rather stop my threat with the one bullet I hit him with. 10mm rawr!

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Bearman46 said:
I am one of the few 40 fans. I just got a G20 and it shoots pretty soft compared to my 40 reloads. The 40 is marketed with the worst load ever. 990 fps at 180 grain in general. I reload 155 hp to about 1225 fps way under sammi guidelines. Thats some decent power. I also load 180 grain to just under 1165 fps with longshot or CFE Pistol staying within sami guidelines. Federal 40s at 165 grain at 1130 are a good box ammo for practice and good pop. The best I have found. I have a 357 conversion in G23 and its not for everyone. Much more recoil than my G20. Most box ammo is 1350fps at 125gr. Its my favorite carry Defense caliber but it tires my hands out at about the 2 box point. It hits like a rhino from a short barrel compact so i like the Speer golddot standard box ammo that goes 1375 at 125gr. That would really ruin a would be assailants day.
Click to expand...

I still like the .40, but won't touch a 180 gr. bullet due to the setback issues. The Remington Golden Saber 165 gr. is my favorite carry round. When hiking in the mountains, I carry a G29 using Underwood's 180 gr. 10mm. People are surprised how soft shooting this close to full power round is out of the G29.


Palladin said:
This. I have a G33 and a G23, .40 conversion barrel for the 33. In 357sig, it's a pocket rocket, but the ballastics on it are awesome.
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I have a .357Sig conversion for a P229, but I never carry it. I do bring it to the range, but .357 is a lot more expensive than .40.


greencobra said:
todays commercial 10mm loading are pretty weak compared to when it was introduced. there are only a few manufacturers that load to it's full potential, buffalo bore being one, can't remember the others. i shoot full power reloads thru my g20.
Click to expand...

It is surprising that commercial 10mm rounds are loaded so weak. I think that the hottest might be Sig Sauer's V-crown 180 gr., but it's expensive. I practice with S&B 10mm, which is loaded with a little more pop than the other major brands, in addition to being a lot cheaper.
 
I own both and (ready for the bashing) like both.

Pretty clear that .357is is far less popular among shooters (and the price reflects such, too) as 40sw is one of the most popular rounds in the country for civilians. Local LEOs tend to carry .40sw a good bit (almost as popular in-use as 9x19 among police) but I've never heard of a department carrying 357sig. I know a few feds did for a while; air marshalls and sercret service and a few others, but it seems fewer do now. I've carried both for work (and 9mm too, only for a short period) and enjoy both calibers.

.40sw may be hated on NES but frankly it's not really that expensive compared to 9x19. In a state like MA where you're limited to 10rd (or prebans which of course limits the choice of weapons) why not the same amount of ammunition in the same size compact pistol, but with more stopping power? I don't notice too big a difference in felt recoil or second shot acquisition. I think most of the hate is probably the "wimpy short 10mm" story - frankly I own a couple 10mms and I'd hate to shoot them without hearing protection in a defensive situation, especially indoors... that and the $28 box of ammo is very unappealing next to the $15 box of the same brand in .40sw (where 9x19 is $13/box, same brand).
 
I prefer the 40 for the simple fact ammo is available even when there is a run on ammo. Also I do like the ability to switch out a barrel and shoot 9mm. Both put holes in things.
 
40 isn't hot here in the Northeast. ????

A few years ago, I sold my G19. It got snapped up in seconds. SECONDS. Still the same today.

Not so sure that 40 is that much "worse" than 9mm. Esp. for personal defense. A 165gr 40 runs at almost the same speed as a 9mm, with 1/3 more weight. True, you can't carry as many. But as a civvy, how much capacity do I need per magazine??? And versus 45, the grip frame tends to be shorter in the 40. I've always disliked 45cal Glocks for this reason.

Shoot what you want. But shoot. Get better. That's the most simplest thing.

And I think 357Sig goes obscura first. It's like 30-30 versus 32 Win Spl.
 
I shoot all calibers. I don't dislike any yet. I think that They all have their purpose. If I shoot 357 sig for 100 shots I may then go to my inox 92fs and shoot the rest of the day with that. I reload all of it and sometimes shoot box ammo if a good sale comes up (need the nice new shells : ). I'm not a hater or even disliker of any caliber. I love it all. Just love to shoot. 357sig is a bear to reload never seen setback like that in a my life. You need to taper crimp the crap out of it. On steel I do prefer aggressive reloads love to hear that steel ring! On paper just accurate standard loads usually will do.
 
Hating the .40 because it is a pussified 10mm makes about as much sense as hating the .308 because it's a pussified 30-06.

Stupid.
95% of NES can't hit what their aiming at anyways, so what difference does it make?
 

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