It's even funnier because I'm using the same dies. Even the expander. I just installed them in the turret press.
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What did you do in the reloading room recently?
- Thread starter DW357
- Start date
84ta406
NES Member
Alliant says 17.5gr, even if you assume that's max load 14.1 could be a little on the light side and not getting a good burn going. What scale are you using?
My manual says 12.7 is minimum. A digital scale from Lyman. I pulled 10 apart and weighed them and weighed them and they were all 14.1 +- .1
OK. If it were me, I'd see if the problem goes away at 17 grains of 2400. I know you've had experience with the load, and I know you're supposed to be able to download 2400 reliably. I'm not explaining anything. Maybe the primers are bad. Maybe you're mashing them in with the new press, flattening the anvil and moving the compound aside. Maybe the primers are fine and the powder has some kind of issue. Maybe this, maybe that. Who the hell knows? But I know H110 can do this kind of thing if you go too low, and just because 2400 is more forgiving doesn't mean I am willing to assume that it can't.
Good point. I have some made up on the turret at 16 I'll try those first and see if they have the problem.
Odd thing is......the ones that do fire......they have a nice stout recoil......very consistent report.......and are accurate as f***. That's what makes me lean to a primer batch more than anything
I'll shoot some 16 grain ones and see where that goes. I have 100 of those made up
pastera
NES Member
And no issues with using those bullets before?
That you are having the same issue in a closed chamber leads away from neck tension but doesn't exclude it (doesn't take a lot of pressure to get the bullet to jump the cylinder gap and leak pressure)
Your 16g loads should get more powder in front of the primer for better ignition. If those go off fine then try firing the lower charge in the revolver but tilt the muzzle up before each shot to place the powder over the primer.
Been using zero brand 125 and 158 grain jsp for awhile and no issues ever.
I will take them if you haven’t tossed them yet.
One thing I’ve noticed about Federal brass is that primers go in too easily. That is, the pockets are generally loose. And they get worse with subsequent reloads. I’ve had to toss some brass because of this. I wonder if the primers are backing out from recoil.
38ExtraSpecial
NES Member
I think Pastera is right. I have powder and primers much older than I am. Some which was stored in not the best conditions.
I was thinking bad components at first but if you were good on single stage it’s likely that there is something in a change of tools or process that is causing issue.
38ExtraSpecial
NES Member
Very good point. I’ve seen this in .308
I guess you could see some primer blow by if this is an issue.
From what I’ve seen the CCI tend to be a little tighter in the pockets which could help seal up a loose pocket better.
I would try to change out the primers and keep the same batch of powder.
Then try a new powder with the Winchester primers and see if you can narrow it down to one variable.
It may not be worth the trouble but it sure would be cool to figure it all out and add to the knowledge base here
I appreciate all the advice and opinions from everyone.
It's totally a head scratcher.
have you looked at the other primers you have to see that all have anvils and primer compound.
Not sure what the anvil is. Is that the star shaped thingamajig?
My buddy did his take down and checked out the 10 rounds I have him last night. This is from his email to me
the flash holes all look good, the primers fire and are nice
and snappy, my guess is that it is the powder. It burns fine, but very
slow, when lit with a match. I tried to make a blank but I can't tell
if the powder ignited or whether the primer just pushed the powder out,
it sure didn't sound much louder than the primer alone. If it were me I would call alliant power about the lot number.
the flash holes all look good, the primers fire and are nice
and snappy, my guess is that it is the powder. It burns fine, but very
slow, when lit with a match. I tried to make a blank but I can't tell
if the powder ignited or whether the primer just pushed the powder out,
it sure didn't sound much louder than the primer alone. If it were me I would call alliant power about the lot number.
allen-1
NES Member
Just caught up on this thread, and just read about your changing to the turret press.
A cardinal rule of trouble-shooting anything is to ask the question - "what did I change last?"
I'd guess that something's wrong with your setup.
True.
Is there any contaminants/moisture in the powder measure? @whacko are you using the same powder measure that you did before? I wasn't sure if you had a different measure when you switched to a different press.
Same powder drop and using the same technique......after I flair the case I take it out of the shell holder to the table mounted drop and charge with powder. Last batch that is still giving me trouble I even weighed each charge.......set the case on the scale.....zero it......add powder.....and weigh to 14.1 +- .1.
pastera
NES Member
Do you have any 125g zero's left? If so load up a few using the same cases that you had issues with.
I think you have a neck tension issue - if you are around Taunton, I can let you borrow a micrometer to check those bullets. If those bullets are actually sized for 9mm then it would explain your problem.
Heck if you are willing to stick around for an hour or two, you can cast, coat and size (.357 and .359) some 125 TC from a Lee mold that I modified to drop .359 and removed the lube grooves.
38ExtraSpecial
NES Member
Ok so one more question. Any chances you dumped some other powder into that 2400 on accident?
My cousin did that once. He mixed a rifle powder and a pistol powder in accident. Emptying the powder measure into the wrong jug when he was done.
His ammo was erratic. His powder drop weights were all over the board. He thought the measure was worn or out of spec.
Nope he mixed up the powders. Surprisingly most of the ammo shot ok and it was one every once in a while he had an issue with that batch.
He posted a photo of the jacketed soft point, so I don't think it's a 9mm bullet but you never know if the manufacturer sized them incorrectly. I know I've never had any issues with Zero bullets. I think you can get a fairly accurate measurement with Digital calipers. I've measured all of my Zeros and they are all .3565-.357. But I realize they're are not as accurate as micrometers.
pastera
NES Member
Smokeless burns quite slowly when not contained - it needs significant pressure to get the flame front to propagate at its designed burn rate.
If you have a deep throated chamber then a (short) light bullet could have enough jump to extinguish the burn with a slow powder.
I only own 2 powders. 2400 and bullseye. I have not loaded bullseye in 3 to 4 months and I always dump my powder back from my hopper back into the can. So.....if I messed up I would have dumped 2400 into the bullseye can so bullseye would be my problem not 2400. There is no mistaking bullseye for 2400 one is a stick and the other is like ash. The ones I pulled and looked at the powder in white paper were all stick see below they all looked like this. Please look at the pic......i don't see anything but stick powder.......but give me another opinion please I need to figure this out
If it was a neck tension issue would the bullet spin or push in easier? None of them spin and I had to pull hard on the projos with pliers to get them out when I checked the powder charges. I have 500 of them left.
I think my next steps will be
1. Test fire the batch I have of 16 grains to rule out 14.1 Being an undercharge
2. Make up a batch with some new 357 brass if a different headstamp to rule out neck tension.
Anything else you guys would recommend? I'll also re examine the powder in the can on some white paper to see if I see any flakes of bullseye even though I doubt that's the problem just to rule it out.
1. Test fire the batch I have of 16 grains to rule out 14.1 Being an undercharge
2. Make up a batch with some new 357 brass if a different headstamp to rule out neck tension.
Anything else you guys would recommend? I'll also re examine the powder in the can on some white paper to see if I see any flakes of bullseye even though I doubt that's the problem just to rule it out.
This has happened in both my revolver and in the Henry rifle of that makes a difference in this theory
As far as the bullets being undersized.....I've been loading from the same batch of zero brand 125 grainers for awhile. The problem started when
1. I opened a new can of 2400....still sealed but purchased 6 months ago
2. I started using the turret press
So I think the problem lies in the powder.......or the press setup.....but like I said the press I'm using the same dies and same charge procedure as before when I had no issues with this recipe.
If you have the same problem on the next batch, unload the gun and check the primer seating depths of the unfired rounds, especially if using Federal brass. Sometimes the recoil, and a loose primer pocket can get the primer in an unfired round to back out. If you have anymore of the problematic ammo, you may want to check them out at some point.
Artie
NES Member
Just for shits and giggles, instead of turret, use your old single stage to make a batch. Good luck
