Why so few 1000M ranges?

[qmmo]

That's 690 smoots.

...or 258.5 rods

 

[PatMcD]

1000yds is over 1/2 mile. Add a lot of land behind for safety and you are at 1 mile. Real estate is expensive.

 

[MassMark]

Have you seen the average Joe shoot? How many people do you know can make a wind call at 1K and hit a 20" target?

Grendel?

When pigs cry....

 

[Ish]

Brian is right and you wouldn't have the first clue.

I have an NRA Master classification card in Long Range (800-1000 yards) that says you're wrong.

I have, I have, I have…. I would like to know why you are always criticizing my comments with such poor fundaments. Please, do not insult my intelligent. Everyone on the face of Earth knows that it is not the same shooting from 1,000 meters than 100 meters, pleaseeeeeeeeeeee!!!. I believe that together with your “NRA Master classification card in Long Range (800-1000 yards)” you should have some aerodynamics Classification as well.

Ish.

 

[Jose]

I have, I have, I have…. I would like to know why you are always criticizing my comments with such poor fundaments. Please, do not insult my intelligent. Everyone on the face of Earth knows that it is not the same shooting from 1,000 meters than 100 meters, pleaseeeeeeeeeeee!!!. I believe that together with your “NRA Master classification card in Long Range (800-1000 yards)” you should have some aerodynamics Classification as well.

Ish.

I'll tell you why. Because you make no sense and stray FAR out of your lane on many occasions.

The fundamentals of shooting at 1000 yards are exactly the same as shooting at 100 yards. You don't think so because you've never done it or you suck at it. Those of us who can and have know otherwise.

What is your competitive or military shooting experience at any distance past 500 yards?

 

[Admin]

Well Jose a .308 at 100 yards doesn't need wind correction. When there is a 10mph full value blowing right to left. If you don't read the mirage and dial on some windage at 1000 yards you're not going to hit squat.

Reading and calling accurate wind/mirage is an art form in of itself.

ETA my best score at 1K is 194 or 195, it's been a while.

 

[Ish]

Well Jose a .308 at 100 yards doesn't need wind correction. When there is a 10mph full value blowing right to left. If you don't read the mirage and dial on some windage at 1000 yards you're not going to hit squat.

Reading and calling accurate wind/mirage is an art form in of itself.

ETA my best score at 1K is 194 or 195, it's been a while.

Right on +10.

Looks like wind, speed, etc, may have something to do between 100 and 1,000meters.

Ish.

 

[Jose]

Well Jose a .308 at 100 yards doesn't need wind correction. When there is a 10mph full value blowing right to left. If you don't read the mirage and dial on some windage at 1000 yards you're not going to hit squat.

Reading and calling accurate wind/mirage is an art form in of itself.

ETA my best score at 1K is 194 or 195, it's been a while.

That is true.

But what my point is, and what I think Brian was trying to say, is that if your fundamentals allow a hit at 100 yards, you can do it at 1000 too. It sure as hell takes a long time and a lot of repeated practice to stay on top of the wind, but you as well as I know that wind is an issue at distances as close as 300 yards depending on what you are shooting.

If you take a guy with a solid position who can shoot the crap out of the X ring at 100 or 200, and coach him on come ups on a calm day, he can nail it at 1000.

 

[Admin]

If you take a guy with a solid position who can shoot the crap out of the X ring at 100 or 200, and coach him on come ups on a calm day, he can nail it at 1000.

Yes. As long as your shooting at sun up in Nevada.

 

[oneswithfunes]

Why so much bs about hitting stuff way out there? You either have or have not. If you have, offer up your experience. Otherwise ask some questions or keep your mouth shut and for gods sake go out and send some and stop talking about it. There is no substitute for rounds down range and record keeping.

 

[flintoid]

All I know is that I'd love to get the opportunity to learn how to shoot at that distance.

 

[Ish]

Anyway. I hope this helps,

Ish.

http://demigodllc.com/articles/practical-long-range-rifle-shooting-optics/?p=3

 

[oneswithfunes]

Anyway. I hope this helps,

Ish.

http://demigodllc.com/articles/practical-long-range-rifle-shooting-optics/?p=3

I think What Jose is saying is that good fundamentals are the same at any range.

 

[boston_007]

there is public range in North Dartmouth where you can shoot 600 yards. it use to be military range with up to 2000 yards. but years ago it was closed and moved under city of New Bedford ownership and downgraded to 1000 yards then to 600 yards only, cz of numerous complains from locals. The land still there but no one allowed to shoot 1000 yards. for a fact local police snipers team and state police snipers practicing there for 600 yards. it is fun to shoot long distance but makes no sense if you cant be accurate at 100-200 yards. It take lots of hours of practice but can be rewording. Take my word for it as former sniper whom spend some time with my favorite sniper rifle SVD. Now i use DPS SASS .308 with super Sniper Scope 10x42M.
but still have a feelings for SVD, unfortunately its almost impossible to find real Dragunov , seems like closest to it is a Tiger but prices are really high for this hunting carbine.

Range off of Woodcock Road is 500 yrds ....... Police side is 200 yards since they do not normally engage targets past 100 yards. There's a short history of that range around here somewhere but for the life of me I can't find it.

 

[skyhawk]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mOrq7PNZZmQ

 

[Jose]

You don't need a 1000 yard range to have some challenging marksmanship.

Shoot at smallbore rifle at an NRA MR-31 target (600 yard target reduced to 100 yards) or at the A-33 target (300 meter ISSF target reduced to 100 yards).

For some hard core 1000 yard simulation, shoot the NRA A-21 200 yard smallbore prone target.

 

[Ish]

I think What Jose is saying is that good fundamentals are the same at any range.

I know that, but good fundamental doesn’t mean that the same fundamentals apply when shooting a 1K or .1K. Maybe who brought the comment about it can help us in this discussion.

Ish.

 

[CRSIII]

Why so much bs about hitting stuff way out there? You either have or have not. If you have, offer up your experience. Otherwise ask some questions or keep your mouth shut and for gods sake go out and send some and stop talking about it. There is no substitute for rounds down range and record keeping.

Well I guess you told them!

 

[M1911]

Shooting at 1000 is no different that shooting at 100 yards. Same principals apply.

I disagree.

At 100 yards, a rifle sighted in at 25 yards will be within a few inches of the aiming point with no adjustment to the sights or scope. At 300 yards and beyond, you must know your come-ups or you will miss the target by many feet. That could easily cause you to throw a round over the berm, or hit in front of it and skip the round over the berm.

At 100 yards, it really doesn't matter what the wind is doing. You will still hit close to your aiming point. In contrast, at longer distances if you don't know how to deal with wind you will be well off your target. I remember a 600 yard match on Golf Range at Ft. Devens a while back when I missed a wind shift. My hits in the 10 ring became hits in the 7 ring at 3:00, and it wasn't blowing that hard. I suspect that dealing with the wind at 1000 yards is a couple orders of magnitude more sensitive.

I think What Jose is saying is that good fundamentals are the same at any range.

No question that sight alignment, trigger squeeze, and good position are the same whether you are shooting at 100 yards or 1000 yards. But at 100 yards you don't have to deal with come ups or the wind to be near the target. At 1000 yards both are critical.

 

[M1911]

Lets just hope it dosen't get ugly.

Well, then it wouldn't be any fun!

 

[cekim]

Shooting at 1000 is no different that shooting at 100 yards. Same principals apply.

Like driving a car at 55MPH and 155MPH is basically the same right... Wheel, gas, brake - what's the biggie?

 

[Ish]

I disagree.

At 100 yards, a rifle sighted in at 25 yards will be within a few inches of the aiming point with no adjustment to the sights or scope. At 300 yards and beyond, you must know your come-ups or you will miss the target by many feet. That could easily cause you to throw a round over the berm, or hit in front of it and skip the round over the berm.

At 100 yards, it really doesn't matter what the wind is doing. You will still hit close to your aiming point. In contrast, at longer distances if you don't know how to deal with wind you will be well off your target. I remember a 600 yard match on Golf Range at Ft. Devens a while back when I missed a wind shift. My hits in the 10 ring became hits in the 7 ring at 3:00, and it wasn't blowing that hard. I suspect that dealing with the wind at 1000 yards is a couple orders of magnitude more sensitive.


No question that sight alignment, trigger squeeze, and good position are the same whether you are shooting at 100 yards or 1000 yards. But at 100 yards you don't have to deal with come ups or the wind to be near the target. At 1000 yards both are critical.

And once again thank you for people, like you, who tried and know the difference.

My point was that there is no way that the same principals apply when shooting 1,000 meter compare to 100 meters, but once again maybe who post about it tried to say something different.

Ish

 

[oneswithfunes]

Well if shooting at 100 yds and 1000yds is "different" Is it that the range differs by a factor of 10 or the time of flight by 15?

 

[red87930]

That is true.

But what my point is, and what I think Brian was trying to say, is that if your fundamentals allow a hit at 100 yards, you can do it at 1000 too. It sure as hell takes a long time and a lot of repeated practice to stay on top of the wind, but you as well as I know that wind is an issue at distances as close as 300 yards depending on what you are shooting.

If you take a guy with a solid position who can shoot the crap out of the X ring at 100 or 200, and coach him on come ups on a calm day, he can nail it at 1000.

Ish stated that shoot 100 and 100 are not the same. It takes way more skill and consideration of environemtals for the 1000. And for the records the only way i would get to 1000 is with many shots walking it in. I don't even think I would be interested in wasting the ammo to make that shot. It would be fun to watch some pros make the shots though.

 

[M1911]

My point was that there is no way that the same principals apply when shooting 1,000 meter compare to 100 meters, but once again maybe who post about it tried to say something different.

I think I would put it slightly differently. The same basics principals apply, and then some.

That is, beyond 600 yards you have to do the same things well that you have to do at 100 yards (sight alignment, trigger pull, good position, etc.). But those things are ever more important beyond 600 yards, and in addition there are other skills necessary at that distance that simply aren't important at all at 100 yards.

In the interests of disclosure, the longest distance I've shot at was 600 yards. I know there is a qualitative difference between shooting at 200 yards and 600 yards. That is, things that don't matter at 200 yards are suddenly important at 600 yards. I suspect that the same is true when going from 600 yards to 1000 yards.

But the basics are important at every distance. If you have crappy sight alignment and are jerking the trigger at 100 yards, you won't hit at 1000 yards no matter what fancy widgets you've purchased.

 

[cockpitbob]

Let's put some ballpark numbers on this for context. For common .308 ballistics...

WIND:
1 mph crosswind @ 100yds = 0.1"
1 mph crosswind @ 1,000 yds = 10"

Thats a 100:1 difference in POI and a 10:1 difference in Minutes of Angle hold.

COME-UP:
At 200yds, a 50 yard error moves POI about 4"
At 1,000 yds, a 50 yard error moved POI about 53"

In general, wind and come-up get nasty real fast after about 500yds (exponential fall-off).

 

[M1911]

Well if shooting at 100 yds and 1000yds is "different" Is it that the range differs by a factor of 10 or the time of flight by 15?

Look at a ballistics chart for .308. If you zero at 25 yards, you will have no more than 2" of drop at 100 yards. At 500 yards, you will have a bullet drop of over 50 INCHES. That is more than 4 feet.

With a 10 mph cross wind, at 100 yards you will have a wind drift of about 1-2". At 500 yards, you will have a wind drift of 20".

And if you look at the charts, they are not linear -- they increase significantly with distance. The bullets slow down at distance, due to drag, increasing the effect of the wind at distance.

See: http://www.federalpremium.com/products/details/rifle.aspx?id=151

The MA state rifle team does CMP clinics every year, with a full across-the-course service rifle match thrown in. It is a very cheap lesson, and you will never forget what you learn on the 600 yard line.

 

[oneswithfunes]

And once again thank you for people, like you, who tried and know the difference.

My point was that there is no way that the same principals apply when shooting 1,000 meter compare to 100 meters, but once again maybe who post about it tried to say something different.

Ish

The same principals do apply. The external ballistics don't change and take affect with a switch at some magic distance. The longer the time of flight the more it changes. Play with a ballistics computer and see for your self or shoot some different ranges and see. I know my current .308 load in my area drops 4.1" at 200 yards with a 100 yard zero and has almost 1" of wind drift for 10 mph. At 1000 my dope is 38 moa or something like 390" and close to 13 moa for the same wind. The same factors apply. Things just get a lot bigger and harder.

 

[oneswithfunes]

Look at a ballistics chart for .308. If you zero at 25 yards, you will have no more than 2" of drop at 100 yards. At 500 yards, you will have a bullet drop of over 50 INCHES. That is more than 4 feet.

With a 10 mph cross wind, at 100 yards you will have a wind drift of about 1-2". At 500 yards, you will have a wind drift of 20".

And if you look at the charts, they are not linear -- they increase significantly with distance. The bullets slow down at distance, due to drag, increasing the effect of the wind at distance.

See: http://www.federalpremium.com/products/details/rifle.aspx?id=151

The MA state rifle team does CMP clinics every year, with a full across-the-course service rifle match thrown in. It is a very cheap lesson, and you will never forget what you learn on the 600 yard line.

Thanks.

 

[oneswithfunes]

See: http://www.federalpremium.com/products/details/rifle.aspx?id=151

The last time I chroned fggm I had a spread of 30fps. That is like 10" at 1000