Worman v. Baker (MA AWB) Oral Arguments 1-9-2019

[CLW42]

"The AR-15 , and its analogs, along with large capacity magazines, are simply not weapons within the original meaning of the individual constitutional right to "bear arms."

Both their general acceptance and their regulation, if any, are policy matters not for courts, but left to the people directly through their elected representatives. In absence of Federal Legislation, Massachusetts is free to ban these weapons and large capacity magazines. Other states are equally free to leave them unregulated and available to their law abiding citizens. These policy matters are simply not of constitutional moment. Americans are not afraid of bumptious, raucous and robust debate about these matters. We call it democracy."

"Justice Scalia would be proud."


There is so much wrong with that closing statement that my brain almost exploded.

 

[pupchow]

 

[bfm]

So, did I read that right in that it is being dismissed because since she has not prosecuted any one yet and has promised not to do so she has not gone to the point of giving anyone grounds to take her to court?

So we have to go far enough that she decides to prosecute someone(s) before we can sue.

 

[Behind Enemy Lines]

I muscled my way through the 47 pages. I feel like sticking my head in an oven.

He talked an awful lot about the AR-15 and it's similarity to an M16, but this wasn't about the AR-15 specifically. He also says her idea of copies and duplicates is clear enough because, among other things, she was nice enough to give us a similarity test.

 

[robjax]

the judge is an effing idiot and proves he knows nothing of the constitution or the framer's intent.

 

[Behind Enemy Lines]

So, did I read that right in that it is being dismissed because since she has not prosecuted any one yet and has promised not to do so she has not gone to the point of giving anyone grounds to take her to court?

So we have to go far enough that she decides to prosecute someone(s) before we can sue.

Count 2, yes. He said because she says no one will be prosecuted, and no one has been prosecuted, then no threat of prosecution exists.

 

[bfm]

It sounds like he says the AGs enforcement notice can’t be challenged until she actually enforces it. Is that correct?

Sounds like it, I was still reading when you posted.

 

[CLW42]

Thanks pupchow, I couldn't get a copy to work, so I transcribed that very same paragraph. My head is still friggin spinning.

 

[bigblue]

What is the next step?

 

[JayCaliber]

So what's next?

Good question. Pray Jay or Dan gets into office?

 

[kevin9]

Appears dismissal was a forgone conclusion from this judge. His "ruling" is simply post-facto justification.

 

[uwaeve]

"The AR-15 , and its analogs, along with large capacity magazines, are simply not weapons within the original meaning of the individual constitutional right to "bear arms."

I mean, these are exactly the weapons within the original meaning of the original right as it applies to a final check on Government abuse of power. So are a bunch of other things, but this seems to be the current line we are walking: "yea or nay on AR-15."

I believe the SC has ruled that other AWBs do not run afoul of the Second Amendment, so it's not super surprising and probably a foregone conclusion if that's how this goes from here if the plaintiffs choose to appeal up the chain.

 

[xtry51]

The Orwellian misuse of language to reinterpret history in those documents is mind boggling.

 

[JayCaliber]

How will this affect the NSSF lawsuit (if it does)?

 

[rcoolbaugh]

There's never a rope and an angry mob around when you need one!

 

[Boris]

The Orwellian misuse of language to reinterpret history in those documents is mind boggling.

that's basically it, it's not law, it's language manipulation. They really need a bunch of English majors and linguists to figure this shit out.

 

[Palladin]

not unexpected

 

[rwl1955]

That judge is a real POS for throwing in that last sentence. Which he knows isn't true at all.

correct.

 

[rcoolbaugh]

If your blood wasn't already boiling ....

 

[Noreaster]

Well, we now have a court document saying that the AR-10 was in existence before the AR-15.
That can be used for evidence that an AR-10 cannot be a copy of an AR-15 and does not apply to the copy-cat provision.

 

[HuntMaine]

Healy will successfully ban every AR15 Ak etc. in the next 60 days. This will be the beginning of the end for gun ownership other than standard shotgun and revolver in Mass. that’s the goal of the moon bats there.

 

[Horrible]

Wow. Not sure how someone could determine that an AR-15, AK, or any firearm does not qualify as "arms". Isn't that what this "judge" is saying?

 

[Drix]

BRB, updating the sale prices on my Anderson lowers.


This is such bullshit.

 

[amm5061]

BRB, updating the sale prices on my Anderson lowers.

How much?

 

[And7]

I'm getting a strong urge to pick up an x95, if I only I didn't just buy a new tv

 

[M125X]

Way to ruin my day.

 

[EddieA]

Surprised? hell no.
Pissed? Damn right!

 

[VTski4x4]

If there's "no threat of prosecution" per the judge, buy whatever you want. f*** Healy.

 

[Shawnyc]

If there's "no threat of prosecution" per the judge, buy whatever you want. f*** Healy.

I agree, but buy it from where?

 

[Rob Boudrie]

Note that the final comment states that the AR15 is not covered by the 2A. One of my original problems with this case is that the plaintiff threw in a 2A claim rather than limit the case specifically to the overreach and extra-legal enforcement action by the AG. I predicted that this was giving the court a "not covered by the 2A" claim to hang a decision on, and allow it to largely sidestep the "overreach" issue. Although there was some discussion of the AG's interpretation, the final summation by the court addresses the 2A issue ... one that should never have been in the plaintiff's filing in the first place.

Comm2A had very little input on this case. We were at a meeting with the NSSF (and others) shortly after the Healy ban, but we were not active participants in formulating case strategy.