Amend LEOSA for C.O's

It's about the principle bro. 5 signatures or 500,000 signatures. As long as it's us and them it will never be all of us fighting for our rights.
 
Boghog1 said:
yes like that "rapist" 18yo kid that got nailed for banging his 16yo girlfriend and is now treated like "scumof the earth" or that "dealer that had half a pond of pot and was getting the dope for his close friends.
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Yeah, except usually no one goes to prison for that unless there are extenuating circumstances.

No offense, but some of you guys have a huge disconnect as to what usually happens versus what can potentially happen.
 
OfficerObie59 said:
Yeah, except usually no one goes to prison for that unless there are extenuating circumstances.

No offense, but some of you guys have a huge disconnect as to what usually happens versus what can potentially happen.
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So, are you of the opinion that most people in prison should actually be there?
 
Lamina said:
So, are you of the opinion that most people in prison should actually be there?
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Loaded question. Do I think most--i.e., a simple majority--of inmates are guilty of the crimes alleged? Yes, I think the justice system is better than 50% on convictions. But I would agree that some of the things people are there for probably shouldn't be criminal in the first place.

However, I stand by my previous statement that a statutory rape in the circumstance given virtually never results in incarceration.

- - - Updated - - -

deezwho said:
Dude if you think every person in prison is a murderer or rapist you must be smokin something.
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Who was that directed to? If it was me, I certainly didn't make that claim.
 
I think everyone here agrees in the right to keep and bear arms,no restrictions and that all law abiding citizens should be allowed to CCW across this great country. That's not the issue. In terms of LEO status cops, co, state police, federal agents, etc they are public servants who 99 out of 100 times have a great reason to carry a gun on or off duty. I DID NOT MEAN A COPS REASON IS ANY MORE IMPORTANT THAN ANYONE ELSE'S. As a public servant and being held to the higher standard lets just say I agree with LEOSA and I believe it cuts the red tape of state to state gun laws. While I agree it should be everyone allowed to carry nationwide. Until the politicians take their heads out of their asses and stop with the personal agendas nothing is ever going to change. It's starts and ends with the elected officials. Get on the phone and start calling.


and I forgot who commented on it but there have been many times I have been out of state, on vacation or away from where I live and have ran into people I have had issues with, so yes even though I'm not in my state or jurisdiction the need still arises. Lastly I want to add that yes a citizens right to protection is just as important as a cops but unfortunately the govt doesn't think that it's citizens should be allowed to carry a gun from one state to another, driving no problem, shopping no problem. Its an excuse of the govt to restrict guns and I don't agree with it. That said everyone have a good night
 
Kisspik002 said:
I think everyone here agrees in the right to keep and bear arms,no restrictions and that all law abiding citizens should be allowed to CCW across this great country. That's not the issue. In terms of LEO status cops, co, state police, federal agents, etc they are public servants who 99 out of 100 times have a great reason to carry a gun on or off duty. I DID NOT MEAN A COPS REASON IS ANY MORE IMPORTANT THAN ANYONE ELSE'S. As a public servant and being held to the higher standard lets just say I agree with LEOSA and I believe it cuts the red tape of state to state gun laws. While I agree it should be everyone allowed to carry nationwide. Until the politicians take their heads out of their asses and stop with the personal agendas nothing is ever going to change. It's starts and ends with the elected officials. Get on the phone and start calling.
Click to expand...

You are all over the map there. As I said earlier, this just sounds like expanding a whites only restaurant to include Asians. Yeah, I suppose you could argue that more rights for more people are better, but how can you defend the process? You say you like LEOSA. I can't square that with a respect for liberty for all.

As for the "public servant" bit -- you guys get paid, right? Is there some better job you could have instead? I'm not saying what you do is or is not a benefit to the public, but that you are compensated for a job you chose to take. Everyone who gets paid is benefiting somebody. That's how capitalism works. Most of us don't go around calling ourselves "servants". It comes off as incredibly self-indulgent. On top of that, I didn't ask for the service, but I am paying a ton for it in taxes, so feel free to do something else. I'm a little tired paying so damned much for it.
 
As a public servant and being held to the higher standard
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With all due respect, I would say that you are held to a lower, not a higher, standard.

To make my case, I suggest you compare what happens if I, an LTC-A holder, use my firearm defensively vs. use by you with the "higher standard" -

- Who is more likely to be criminally charged given equal justification?

- In a word-on-word situation where the assailant says the shooting was maliciously initiated, will the cop face automatic criminal charges? What about the ordinary person? Who will be held to the "higher standard?"

- Who is more likely to have all their guns taken in a "clean shoot" - the cop or the civilian? Obviously, the person whose guns are taken on the slightest suspicion is the one held to a "higher standard".

- If I am training with friends and shoot someone by mistake, will I be criminally charged or will it be considered "an unfortunate accident?". What about the cop who does the same? Once again, the non-LEO is held to the "higher standard".

- Who is more likely to be charged in a dog shooting?

- Who is more likely to have to pay their own legal fees - the non-LEO or the LEO? Once again, the "ordinary citizen" is more accountable than law enforcement.

So, I rest my case. In terms of accountability, non-LEOs are the ones held to the higher standard.
 
economist said:
Most of us could probably agree on a few things: (1) There are people in prison who deserve to be there, (2) there are people in prison who do not deserve to be there, (3) anyone who decides to take a job overseeing prisoners is likely at risk from both groups, (4) any man should be free to arm himself, and (5) making laws to dole out privileges to special classes of citizens is an act against liberty.
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Well said.
 
Thank you Economist and rob. It's the little tantrum well if everyone can't get it then the hell with all of you, but I still want mine. So quick to judge and throw everyone else under the bus. You do realize that you are advocating for bigger government, more regulation, and more special classes. I think history has seen this before when no one had a backbone.

Kisspik002 are you the most unlucky person in the world or do you just piss off everyone you come in contact with? I'm sorry I'm not biting on the "victim" line of multiple contacts outside of your regional area. Plus that means you're either associating yourself in less than desirable areas or they were white collar crimes that would be less than likely to pose an issue requiring a ccw.
 
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Yep, they're all angels. Just ask CO Williams:
Last night, a correctional officer at USP Canaan was killed by an inmate. Officer Eric Williams was working in a housing unit when he was stabbed to death, for reasons that are not yet known.

35 YO Veteran who made it through the Iraq war.
 
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I don't agree with some of the way those wgo share my views are arguing, but I think it's important to remember you can work as a CO, treat the inmates with total dignity respect, and they'll still try to kill you.

To close this out, my point is rather simple: Carry rights should apply to all, nationwide, without qualification; but since they do not, in the alternative, I would hope those who work in corrections should be able to do so under whatever provision offerered.
 
economist said:
You are all over the map there. As I said earlier, this just sounds like expanding a whites only restaurant to include Asians. Yeah, I suppose you could argue that more rights for more people are better, but how can you defend the process? You say you like LEOSA. I can't square that with a respect for liberty for all.

As for the "public servant" bit -- you guys get paid, right? Is there some better job you could have instead? I'm not saying what you do is or is not a benefit to the public, but that you are compensated for a job you chose to take. Everyone who gets paid is benefiting somebody. That's how capitalism works. Most of us don't go around calling ourselves "servants". It comes off as incredibly self-indulgent. On top of that, I didn't ask for the service, but I am paying a ton for it in taxes, so feel free to do something else. I'm a little tired paying so damned much for it.
Click to expand...

economist said:
Most of us could probably agree on a few things: (1) There are people in prison who deserve to be there, (2) there are people in prison who do not deserve to be there, (3) anyone who decides to take a job overseeing prisoners is likely at risk from both groups, (4) any man should be free to arm himself, and (5) making laws to dole out privileges to special classes of citizens is an act against liberty.
Click to expand...

I can't disagree with much, if any, of that.
 
OfficerObie59 said:
I don't agree with some of the way those wgo share my views are arguing, but I think it's important to remember you can work as a CO, treat the inmates with total dignity respect, and they'll still try to kill you.

To close this out, my point is rather simple: Carry rights should apply to all, nationwide, without qualification; but since they do not, in the alternative, I would hope those who work in corrections should be able to do so under whatever provision offerered.
Click to expand...

This.
 
SgtHawkUSMC said:
Yep, they're all angels. Just ask CO Williams:
Last night, a correctional officer at USP Canaan was killed by an inmate. Officer Eric Williams was working in a housing unit when he was stabbed to death, for reasons that are not yet known.

35 YO Veteran who made it through the Iraq war.
Click to expand...

According to news reports he was stabbed close to 100 times
 
Rob Boudrie said:
With all due respect, I would say that you are held to a lower, not a higher, standard.

To make my case, I suggest you compare what happens if I, an LTC-A holder, use my firearm defensively vs. use by you with the "higher standard" -

- Who is more likely to be criminally charged given equal justification?

- In a word-on-word situation where the assailant says the shooting was maliciously initiated, will the cop face automatic criminal charges? What about the ordinary person? Who will be held to the "higher standard?"

- Who is more likely to have all their guns taken in a "clean shoot" - the cop or the civilian? Obviously, the person whose guns are taken on the slightest suspicion is the one held to a "higher standard".

- If I am training with friends and shoot someone by mistake, will I be criminally charged or will it be considered "an unfortunate accident?". What about the cop who does the same? Once again, the non-LEO is held to the "higher standard".

- Who is more likely to be charged in a dog shooting?

- Who is more likely to have to pay their own legal fees - the non-LEO or the LEO? Once again, the "ordinary citizen" is more accountable than law enforcement.

So, I rest my case. In terms of accountability, non-LEOs are the ones held to the higher standard.
Click to expand...

Excellent post, Rob! Those points are all spot on, but unfortunately most people never think that deeply into it.
 

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