Caliber Discussion: 300 Win Mag vs 300 Win Short Mag

[Rockrivr1]

So I handled two rifles yesterday. One was a Browning Bolt in 300 WSM and the other was a Tikka in 300 WM. The only difference I noticed between the two rifles was:

1. The Browning was lighter then the Tikka
2. The Browning is a Short Action and the Tikka was a long action.

Got me interested in the basic differences between the calibers. After some initial investigation there doesn’t seem to be much ballistically different between the two.



The main difference seems to be ammo costs and recoil. 300 MSM is more expensive but the 300 WM has more recoil.

Accuracy wise they seem to match up very closely.



Both seem to be quality long range and hunting rifles.

So if given the choice which would you prefer and why? I know the ammo cost would be a difference but I like the ability to carry a lighter rifle. Both are rated for larger game.

 

[paul73]

i plain refuse now to invest into anything that takes 60+ gr of powder. costs of components just went ballistic...

but, a 300 wsm was an interesting choice while this one existed, but, it is no more.

Complete AR10 Upper Receiver- 300 WSM - 19" Barrel 15" - MLOK

Upgrade your firearm with our 300 WSM complete upper receiver featuring a 19" barrel and a 15" MLOK rail. Experience enhanced accuracy and versatility in a single package, designed to elevate your shooting capabilities. Perfectly balanced for optimal performance, this upper receiver is your...

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[Mountain]

300 WM is a much more 'universal' caliber. That would be my decision, plus no need to go light for this one unless you are hoofing it up mountains for big game.

 

[paul73]

hoofing it up mountains for big game

if we exclude afrika and safaris, what on this continent really requires more than a .308 or 6.5CM to take down? what game? i do not think so... a 175gr bullet behind 44gr varget is quite a good thing, i would think.

 

[PappyM3]

I gotta say, high BC long action length loaded 300 WSM intrigues me.

 

[Mountain]

if we exclude afrika and safaris, what on this continent really requires more than a .308 or 6.5CM to take down? what game? i do not think so... a 175gr bullet behind 44gr varget is quite a good thing, i would think.

Think elk and 300 to 400 yards in strong winds. 6.5 CM at 400 yards isn't going to have a lot of juice for a 800+ lb bull. 308 will get pushed around and not much juice relative to 300 WM. Both 308 and 6.5 CM at long distance are considered marginal at best for elk.

I might have a chance to hunt elk on my cousin's farm next fall. If the distances are long I'll bring a 7mm Rem Mag. If short, a 45-70 lever action.

 

[paul73]

Think elk and 300 to 400 yards in strong winds.

i understood that .308 was just fine for elks if under 500yds, kinda surprising to hear that at 300 it will not be enough.
good to know, if so. i probably would not be shooting anything more than 300yds away from me anyway.

 

[whatluck]

Have you thought about going to .338 Lapua? 5k ft/lbs of energy, heavier projectile options, bigger case capacity, probably worse BC though.

You never know, you might need to take down a rhino driving an armored car.

 

[Mountain]

i understood that .308 was just fine for elks if under 500yds, kinda surprising to hear that at 300 it will not be enough.
good to know, if so. i probably would not be shooting anything more than 300yds away from me anyway.

308 is enough but past 300 I'd want something better.

 

[Woodsloafer]

So I handled two rifles yesterday. One was a Browning Bolt in 300 WSM and the other was a Tikka in 300 WM. The only difference I noticed between the two rifles was:

1. The Browning was lighter then the Tikka
2. The Browning is a Short Action and the Tikka was a long action.

Got me interested in the basic differences between the calibers. After some initial investigation there doesn’t seem to be much ballistically different between the two.

View attachment 951500

The main difference seems to be ammo costs and recoil. 300 MSM is more expensive but the 300 WM has more recoil.

Accuracy wise they seem to match up very closely.

View attachment 951502

Both seem to be quality long range and hunting rifles.

So if given the choice which would you prefer and why? I know the ammo cost would be a difference but I like the ability to carry a lighter rifle. Both are rated for larger game.

Will this rifle actually be used for hunting and for what game where, or just shooting long range?

All Tikkas are long action, they only make one action length.

 

[Rockrivr1]

Will this rifle actually be used for hunting and for what game where, or just shooting long range?

All Tikkas are long action, they only make one action length.

Elk and/or Bear when it comes to hunting. Some long distance for practice.

Didn’t know that about Tikka, but from what I read the length of 300 WM requires a long action anyway.

 

[Woodsloafer]

Elk and/or Bear when it comes to hunting. Some long distance for practice.

Didn’t know that about Tikka, but from what I read the length of 300 WM requires a long action anyway.

I have a 300 WSM, but if I was buying something new and wanted a .30 caliber magnum it would be a 300 WM, ammo is likely more widely available and there is really no difference in effective range, killing power, etc. 300 WSM is a good cartridge, and I like it better for other reasons, but it's popularity is waning.

 

[PappyM3]

I have a 300 WSM, but if I was buying something new and wanted a .30 caliber magnum it would be a 300 WM, ammo is likely more widely available and there is really no difference in effective range, killing power, etc. 300 WSM is a good cartridge, and I like it better for other reasons, but it's popularity is waning.

It seems, when looking at aggregated internet chatter, that 300 WSM is becoming more popular. Maybe in the past 8 months or so? We’ll see if the renewed interest lasts.

 

[Woodsloafer]

It seems, when looking at aggregated internet chatter, that 300 WSM is becoming more popular. Maybe in the past 8 months or so? We’ll see if the renewed interest lasts.

I respectfully disagree, but I have not completed an analysis of "aggregated internet chatter".

 

[PappyM3]

I respectfully disagree, but I have not completed an analysis of "aggregated internet chatter".

Fair. There just seems to be a lot more discussion of people discovering 300 WSM this past year, across forums, manufacturers, and different gun/hunting communities. We’ll see. It may be a bit of my own bias in hoping it succeeds.

 

[Yota79]

Chris Kyle liked the 300 WM for 100-200lb game. I've got a Bergara HMR in 300 WM and it's definitely overkill for anything around here.

 

[gerrycaruso]

If you decide to go with 300 Winchester Magnum, let me know. I have (2) 2-pound coffee containers full of once fired brass and you can have it. I have no desire to shoot 300 anything.

 

[Mark from ?]

I respectfully disagree, but I have not completed an analysis of "aggregated internet chatter".

300 Win Mag is by far more popular and more guns out there in it, and available than 300 Short Mag. I'm thinking by osmosis.....its been out there a long time vs. the short mag.

I see no reason to shoot either unless your talking Large Elk/bear sized game way out there at 400 yards. Even then most shoot 7mm Mag for that out west.

With todays powders like RL 17....a 30-06 can be loaded pushing 300 Win Mag ballistics and speed.

 

[Woodsloafer]

300 Win Mag is by far more popular and more guns out there in it, and available than 300 Short Mag. I'm thinking by osmosis.....its been out there a long time vs. the short mag.

I see no reason to shoot either unless your talking Large Elk/bear sized game way out there at 400 yards. Even then most shoot 7mm Mag for that out west.

With todays powders like RL 17....a 30-06 can be loaded pushing 300 Win Mag ballistics and speed.

Agreed. Personally, if I did not have a rifle (I have plenty) for a hunt out west for elk/bear, I would simply get a 270 and use one of Hornady's Superperformance loads (30-06 would be my second choice). Personally I know I would not be shooting over 400 yards (I would rather be 250 or under, if possible) and the 270 has plenty of oomph for elk, etc. at that range. Less recoil than a 300 or even a 7mm mag and likely a bit lighter gun for carrying up and down the hills.

 

[BigTimber]

I’ve hunted the mountains out west for near 30 years now. I dabbled with the 300 win Mag. Got rid of it. The 270 is what I go with, it rules the West, it’s is all you will need. I’d only go bigger if I was hunting grizzlies. why unnecessarily punish your shoulder? A 270 killed the elk carrying this rack. Have a great hunt!

 

[Broc Tuah]

Think elk and 300 to 400 yards in strong winds. 6.5 CM at 400 yards isn't going to have a lot of juice for a 800+ lb bull. 308 will get pushed around and not much juice relative to 300 WM. Both 308 and 6.5 CM at long distance are considered marginal at best for elk.

I might have a chance to hunt elk on my cousin's farm next fall. If the distances are long I'll bring a 7mm Rem Mag. If short, a 45-70 lever action.

I don't know. At 400 yards 6.5cm will go through a deer.

I get it, a deer is not an Elk, but the round will penetrate and blow its heart. I will bet that as long as you don't hit a rib or shoulder, the 6.5 will probably make it through an Elk at 400.

However, I have been surprised, I have seen a 270 not make it through a hog under 100 yards away, yet people use 223 on hogs. I know this because I shot a hog with a 270 and found the bullet stuck on its hide on the other side. At first I thought it was an infection, then realized it was the bullet. Nice little mushroom.

 

[Woodsloafer]

I don't know. At 400 yards 6.5cm will go through a deer.

I get it, a deer is not an Elk, but the round will penetrate and blow its heart. I will bet that as long as you don't hit a rib or shoulder, the 6.5 will probably make it through an Elk at 400.

However, I have been surprised, I have seen a 270 not make it through a hog under 100 yards away, yet people use 223 on hogs. I know this because I shot a hog with a 270 and found the bullet stuck on its hide on the other side. At first I thought it was an infection, then realized it was the bullet. Nice little mushroom.

It's all about the right bullets for the right application.

 

[Mark from ?]

It's all about the right bullets for the right application.

This. Larger calibers also leave enough energy for room for error, hitting bone. At 400 yds that's a good thing.

You can kill an elk with a .22 if your precise. But most people wouldn't choose it because there is no room for error.

 

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[Tundra02]

I don't know. At 400 yards 6.5cm will go through a deer.

I get it, a deer is not an Elk, but the round will penetrate and blow its heart. I will bet that as long as you don't hit a rib or shoulder, the 6.5 will probably make it through an Elk at 400.

However, I have been surprised, I have seen a 270 not make it through a hog under 100 yards away, yet people use 223 on hogs. I know this because I shot a hog with a 270 and found the bullet stuck on its hide on the other side. At first I thought it was an infection, then realized it was the bullet. Nice little mushroom.

On my Wyoming trip this past Oct I hunted with People from 4 different western states and all had had herd of Elk shot at long range ( past300 yards) and hit in the vitals and lost or tracked down for a long ways that had been shot with the " 6.5 Bleedmore " .
As a side note while in Cheyene I visited 4 gun shops and a WalMart and the 4 calibers the most well stocked were 30/06,270,7mm Mag,300 Win Mag

 

[rep308]

You reload, correct? For you and your knowledge and proficiency I’d get the WSM. I’ve got a gun nut hunting buddy and he loves his, for the reasons you outline. It’s a short action and lighter weight and my buddies custom loads, while potent, are spot on. For the average Joe I’d stick with the commercial cartridge.

He loads and shoots 50 rounds per year max. Last I remember brass was $4 each, I’d get a bunch when if I got the gun.

 

[Mark from ?]

On my Wyoming trip this past Oct I hunted with People from 4 different western states and all had had herd of Elk shot at long range ( past300 yards) and hit in the vitals and lost or tracked down for a long ways that had been shot with the " 6.5 Bleedmore " .
As a side note while in Cheyene I visited 4 gun shops and a WalMart and the 4 calibers the most well stocked were 30/06,270,7mm Mag,300 Win Mag

Bullet design and placement has a lot to do with it.

A ballistic tip at long range may just explode upon impact on bone, not penetrate and may cripple, not kill if hit in the leg or shoulder with not enough energy.

A small caliber soft point thru and thru the lungs or abdomen will not shock the animal and now you have a small hole for blood loss.....giving you a shit tracking job, especially if thru the liver or guts. Forget it, especially if you push it and don't let it lie down 4 hours (liver) for 12 hours (guts) or more and die.

 

[cathouse01]

i plain refuse now to invest into anything that takes 60+ gr of powder. costs of components just went ballistic...

but, a 300 wsm was an interesting choice while this one existed, but, it is no more.

Complete AR10 Upper Receiver- 300 WSM - 19" Barrel 15" - MLOK

Upgrade your firearm with our 300 WSM complete upper receiver featuring a 19" barrel and a 15" MLOK rail. Experience enhanced accuracy and versatility in a single package, designed to elevate your shooting capabilities. Perfectly balanced for optimal performance, this upper receiver is your...

kakindustry.com

I have the KAK 300 WSM upper on a LR308 lower and it is really only viable if you reload. The issue is that the max OAL of the .300 WSM is 2.860 in while for the .308 it is 2.800 in. You wouldn't think that 0.06 in makes much of a difference, but it does. All the commercial ammo I've used is loaded out to the max OAL and therefore has trouble feeding through most AR10/LR308 mags. The only mag that works even semi-reliably is the ASC Stainless Steel SR-25 AR10 .308. I find it easier to reload it down a bit so the OAL is closer to the .308. Also, the case dimensions of the WSM are such that you can really only load 4 cartridges into the mag if you want to reliably feed that first round. When everything is working right, it is a remarkably powerful and accurate rifle, but it is a bit of a PITA to get everything right.

 

[PatMcD]

No love for "The Poor Man's Magnum"?
I'm of course, talking about the 35 Whelen: God's caliber.

If strictly a choice between 300wsm & 300wm, I'd go with the 300wm.

 

[Tundra02]

Bullet design and placement has a lot to do with it.

A ballistic tip at long range may just explode upon impact on bone, not penetrate and may cripple, not kill if hit in the leg or shoulder with not enough energy.

A small caliber soft point thru and thru the lungs or abdomen will not shock the animal and now you have a small hole for blood loss.....giving you a shit tracking job, especially if thru the liver or guts. Forget it, especially if you push it and don't let it lie down 4 hours (liver) for 12 hours (guts) or more and die.

You and I understand this most don't . Just repeating what I heard .I will stick with my 270 with 130 gr for Antelope and deer and 160 gr Nosler Partitions for bear,Moose,Elk .