Who said nobody fought that???
The tone in this thread, and @Boston4567 's blogolog post made it seem like it was accepted instantly in the first interaction with Plaintiffs.
I will love to hear otherwise when reading the full transcript.
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Who said nobody fought that???
Actually the state did concede. They stopped being a broken record and dreamed up some ridiculous restrictions.
The judge did nothing but agree with the state.
On the other hand the state could have said something like, “In good conscience we see no way for gun shops to open in this uncertain time.“ Just like the plaintiff took the opposite stand that gun shops were essential and should be allowed to open under existing social distancing guidelines.
I don’t see the judge doing any more than getting the state to admit their broken record wasn’t broken and then conceded to the state’s requirements.
No.
The state offered a pre calculated limitation, which they have verified is the slowest and most restrictive operation of any fun shop or gun shop. The judge allowed it.
It's like only allowing trucks on the highway to use first gear low range.
No gear shifting.
A zoo with four customers per hour, appointment required. Confirmed directly with Carl.
For larger shops you are correct. For the tiny shops, they can work with this and usually it is merely a part-time gig for them.This isn't a win. I can't see them opening to 4/hr.
I'm sorry to detract from it. I do understand that it is a logistic step in a difficulr+-to-+move direction in the 4d chess game.
Should the state pay for Calendy pro plans for all gunshop employees?
![]()
Free Online Appointment Scheduling Software | Calendly
Calendly is the modern scheduling platform that makes “finding time” a breeze. When connecting is easy, your teams can get more done.calendly.com
The state just placed a burden on them, without justification. (or well, I guess this is a TRO , so technically the court did. )
Can anyone do the maths along side me? I can't envision a world where any brick and mortar could even pay the power bill on a diet of transfer fees only.
Taking a small shop example 1 owner 3 employees. Open 7 days a week. Normal daily peak hour serves 50 people. Conversion rate of 20%.
One employee is the gunsmith. Half the time he gets brought up from the dungeon, it's a turn-a-way.
So an hour block could have been:
10 transactions.
2 ffl transfer fees $60
2 ammo purchases for $200 (profit $50)
1 gunsmith sight install $75 minus the $30 to the employee and $20 for insurance and taxes on his overhead.
1 handgun sale Taurus Curve and a box of .380 $400 (profit $100)
1 used gun consignment sale (maybe $50 profit)
1 new rifle sale $1100 Ruger American Scout with goodies (profit $150)
1 pepper spray for a dudes GF $12 ($5 maybe )
1 fake turkey lawn ornament as a joke ($5)
This is a kicking business, employees make 20-35/hr (40 hr / week. 2 off per year paid. With health insurance)
Take that example hour. 20% conversion rate. 50 person flow.
If 20 of those hours happened a week, this shop would pull in $1.9 million a year net. $225k in profit. Call that a baseline.
Now yank that down to 4 /hour
Max: $85k (biggest transactions )
Min: -$211k (smallest transactions)
This was calculated assuming a 100% conversion rate per appointment (all appointments generate a sale. Doubtful. Should actually be between 50% and 75% conversion.)
Now If 2/3 employees were fired. Not including unemployment costs.
Max: $248k
Min: -$71k
That's a lot of risk.No way would I run a business with a potential swing into the red that far.
20 good hours per week at my initial rates would give me a few hundred K in profit, while paying for 3 employees. Business flow would have to cut that in half to see a loss.
Vs the 4apt/hour plan. Which offers no ability to maintain a floor on paper.
I'm tempted to make an appointment just to see the shop quiet![]()
Very grateful for G.O.A.L. and all who help them. Proud to be a member. I fully agree we should always remember those who are willing to stand with and for us.This is a win. A lot of people worked really hard to achieve this win on our behalf. Don’t lose sight of that.
Bob
The Second Amendment Foundation and Firearms Policy Coalition were very supportive of the case. Comm2A was involved and the attorney Jensen has a long standing relationship with Comm2A and has argued cases for them in the past. Whether or not the attorney for the other case (Couture) was of benefit or not is a matter of subjective opinion.Very grateful for G.O.A.L. and all who help them. Proud to be a member. I fully agree we should always remember those who are willing to stand with and for us.
The Second Amendment Foundation and Firearms Policy Coalition were very supportive of the case. Comm2A was involved and the attorney Jensen has a long standing relationship with Comm2A and has argued cases for them in the past. Whether or not the attorney for the other case (Couture) was of benefit or not is a matter of subjective opinion.
Today Comm2A joined by partners Second Amendment Foundation, Firearms Policy Coalition, and Gun Owners Action League filed suit against several Massachusetts officials and police chiefs over the Commonwealth's closure of businesses selling firearms and ammunition.
Why wouldnt someone order online (and not pay sales tax) or have the small shop from the mill order the item online, rather than having to call the store, paying over the phone (since most shops are not set up to do online transactions), having them ship it, then pay an extra $20 on top of the already paid sales tax at the first shop.I have 07FFL and thought about offering transfer services to bigger gun shops. Only problem, I am so busy with work, I wont have the time. The idea was that bigger shops use smaller shops like at The Mill to provide transfer services. The big gun shops still get the sale but the gun is locally shipped to a close by smaller shop who can get the transfer fee. It frees up valuable time from the big shops from doing the 4473. I think customers would understand that given the state restrictions the added transfer fee and another trip to a close by shop is the trade off to getting what they want. The alternative is to wait longer for an appointment. The big shops could sell more than 4 guns per hour by having the actual transfers to the customer done at a rate of 4 per hour at the smaller shops. Each smaller ffl could absorb upto 36, 4473's per day. Big gun store can still do their own 36 transfer. If there are like 50 ffls at the mill then the mill could cover up to 1800 gun sales per day. For the record I am not at the mill. It was just an idea which may be completely impractical.
I was basing this on the first MA shop I went into in MA to pickup my Group Buy NFA lower. At their peak hourI don’t know about MA but in FL there are shops as big as grocery stores with pallets full of guns and employees at counters all around.
We have shops as big as grocery stores.I don’t know about MA but in FL there are shops as big as grocery stores with pallets full of guns and employees at counters all around.
I’ve only been to the small shops in Western MA and B&K in Natick.We have shops as big as grocery stores.
Four seasons is the size of one of those small ethnic grocery stores.
Unless you consider Cabelas or Bass Pro a gun store, there is nothing "big" around here.
I have also never seen 50 people in a gun store. Not a 4 seasons or SO. I can say I have seen 50+ at KTP.
We have shops as big as grocery stores.
Four seasons is the size of one of those small ethnic grocery stores.
Unless you consider Cabelas or Bass Pro a gun store, there is nothing "big" around here.
I have also never seen 50 people in a gun store. Not a 4 seasons or SO. I can say I have seen 50+ at KTP.
FIFYThe only sort of FFL I would imagine could survive this, lives in the Mill under the protection of @one-eyed Jack and Megan.
Yes, but have you seen KTPs gun counter so busy they had several staff members working with customers on gun purchase paperwork and customers literally taking a number for their turn to make a purchase? Or seen 8+ people concurrently working their gun counter?I have also never seen 50 people in a gun store. Not a 4 seasons or SO. I can say I have seen 50+ at KTP.
FIFY
Yes, but have you seen KTPs gun counter so busy they had several staff members working with customers on gun purchase paperwork and customers literally taking a number for their turn to make a purchase? Or seen 8+ people concurrently working their gun counter?
Same here. Like I said, you're lucky if you are not the only customer in there for a half hour; this would make 4 an hour an increase. Some places would not be able to hold more than 4-5 people if the 6 foot rule was in effect.I’ve only been to the small shops in Western MA and B&K in Natick.
No, but I have had one person before me there before. Maybe 50 in the whole store, sure, but that is multiple levels, and sells clothes, fishing gear, hunting gear, and other stuff as well as guns.FIFY
Yes, but have you seen KTPs gun counter so busy they had several staff members working with customers on gun purchase paperwork and customers literally taking a number for their turn to make a purchase? Or seen 8+ people concurrently working their gun counter?
.Very grateful for G.O.A.L. and all who help them. Proud to be a member. I fully agree we should always remember those who are willing to stand with and for us.
If true, someone really needs to change the title of this thread and change or delete the first post in this thread.GOAL is a fine organization and we're (Comm2A) proud to have partnered with them in many other areas. But they were not part of this action.
I don't think a reasonable enough attempt was made to push back on it. Arguments have been made here that any further attempt to push would have done more harm than good, but I don't buy it. I think it would have been useful to push back to at least get the judge thinking about it.The tone in this thread, and @Boston4567 's blogolog post made it seem like it was accepted instantly in the first interaction with Plaintiffs.
I will love to hear otherwise when reading the full transcript.
my bad, I was thinking of something else. lots going on....If true, someone really needs to change the title of this thread and change or delete the first post in this thread.Very misleading!
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Do you honestly, deep down in your heart and soul, believe that Faker and Heil Healy , are going to let any gun shops, ranges, or anything else 2A related, go full open in a month, 2 months, whenever, because he knows "it's the right time" ? They are going to keep their thumbs on everyone , until Comm 2A, GOAL, and the Fed Court knock them back again. Paul.
This isn't a win. I can't see them opening to 4/hr.
I'm sorry to detract from it. I do understand that it is a logistic step in a difficulr+-to-+move direction in the 4d chess game.
Should the state pay for Calendy pro plans for all gunshop employees?
![]()
Free Online Appointment Scheduling Software | Calendly
Calendly is the modern scheduling platform that makes “finding time” a breeze. When connecting is easy, your teams can get more done.calendly.com
The state just placed a burden on them, without justification. (or well, I guess this is a TRO , so technically the court did. )
Can anyone do the maths along side me? I can't envision a world where any brick and mortar could even pay the power bill on a diet of transfer fees only.
Taking a small shop example 1 owner 3 employees. Open 7 days a week. Normal daily peak hour serves 50 people. Conversion rate of 20%.
One employee is the gunsmith. Half the time he gets brought up from the dungeon, it's a turn-a-way.
So an hour block could have been:
10 transactions.
2 ffl transfer fees $60
2 ammo purchases for $200 (profit $50)
1 gunsmith sight install $75 minus the $30 to the employee and $20 for insurance and taxes on his overhead.
1 handgun sale Taurus Curve and a box of .380 $400 (profit $100)
1 used gun consignment sale (maybe $50 profit)
1 new rifle sale $1100 Ruger American Scout with goodies (profit $150)
1 pepper spray for a dudes GF $12 ($5 maybe )
1 fake turkey lawn ornament as a joke ($5)
This is a kicking business, employees make 20-35/hr (40 hr / week. 2 off per year paid. With health insurance)
Take that example hour. 20% conversion rate. 50 person flow.
If 20 of those hours happened a week, this shop would pull in $1.9 million a year net. $225k in profit. Call that a baseline.
Now yank that down to 4 /hour
Max: $85k (biggest transactions )
Min: -$211k (smallest transactions)
This was calculated assuming a 100% conversion rate per appointment (all appointments generate a sale. Doubtful. Should actually be between 50% and 75% conversion.)
Now If 2/3 employees were fired. Not including unemployment costs.
Max: $248k
Min: -$71k
That's a lot of risk.No way would I run a business with a potential swing into the red that far.
20 good hours per week at my initial rates would give me a few hundred K in profit, while paying for 3 employees. Business flow would have to cut that in half to see a loss.
Vs the 4apt/hour plan. Which offers no ability to maintain a floor on paper.
Would it even be a 4s experience without jockeying for a cashier while your trying to check out before you get annoyed at the subtle stank of BO in the air?
It's too bad the pieces of excrement couldn't be forced to pay for finacial damages on their illegal shut down.
This - also, shops can expand their hours to open from 9am-9pm, and put their employees on staggered shifts to keep them busy. I know certain shops are doing this, based on their email newsletter.The flip side, and let me say I concur with your assumptions, is that gun shops will likely be busy 4/hr almost EVERY hour they are open from now until the end of the month. For most gun shops, it's D-E-A-D outside of some hours on Fri and Sat. With a lot of people home-working and not-working I can see a very steady flow for a while.