MA Gun Grab 2024: H.4885 - Passed legislature, headed to the governor

[HARRYM]

Do any of those "children" that said that to you own guns? If they do they are the best evidence that libtards should not be allowed to own guns. If they don't own any they won't be running any shows, their MASTERS will be running the show. We've reached the point where 2A people advocating that liberals own guns is akin to arming the enemy. Do you want those peolple to be armed when they are running things? Prove me wrong. I have seen the arguments here before. You could ask the people buried in numerous mass graves the world over but they won't be answering since they're dead. Killed by their fellow citizens when they failed to comply.

No, they don't hunt, fish, do anything outdoors. I called them Pillsbury Dough Boys as the had no muscle mass what so ever. Left Wing to their core.

 

[CrackPot]

AWB conjecture

Ok, this is not fully baked but I think the general logic is sound.

The Senate bill has no grandfathering of post 94 assault weapons. So you can have a gun that was purchased legally that suddenly becomes illegal with the passage of S2572.

The House similarly had the same issue with their first version of the bill. Leadership there was concerned that this would fail constitutionally and as a result they could lose the entire AWB (discussed later)

The Senate may or may not amend S2572 to address this. If they do not, it seems likely that in conference with the house it will have to get added given that the house leadership understands the need.

Why is no grandfathering a problem for the gun grabbers? You can decide whether the 4th, 5th or 14th amendment applies. Making lawfully acquired property unlawful with the passing of a law without proper compensation (independent of this being about guns) tends to land one in hot water. If/when a federal court decides this is unconstitutional, what can they do? They cannot roll back the law to a previous version. They cannot rewrite the law themselves or otherwise modify it. What they do is strike it down (maybe enjoining it first from enforcement while the parties argue it out). So what are they striking down? MGL 140 131M, the part of MGL that makes it a felony to possess an assault weapon. There goes the entire AWB. Gone. All because they failed to grandfather what we already have.

If I could predict the future, I would have already won Powerball for $1.5B and not still be living in MA. But I do think we will see a grandfather clause before this gets enacted, whether put in by the Senate, the House or when they reconcile.

 

[Dadstoys]

Straight from the Trojan horse's mouth:

View attachment 843114

I didn't want to seem like a negative Nancy , but I had a nagging suspicion once they got their carve outs they would f*ck us.

 

[btnh6668]

AWB conjecture

Ok, this is not fully baked but I think the general logic is sound.

The Senate bill has no grandfathering of post 94 assault weapons. So you can have a gun that was purchased legally that suddenly becomes illegal with the passage of S2572.

The House similarly had the same issue with their first version of the bill. Leadership there was concerned that this would fail constitutionally and as a result they could lose the entire AWB (discussed later)

The Senate may or may not amend S2572 to address this. If they do not, it seems likely that in conference with the house it will have to get added given that the house leadership understands the need.

Why is no grandfathering a problem for the gun grabbers? You can decide whether the 4th, 5th or 14th amendment applies. Making lawfully acquired property unlawful with the passing of a law without proper compensation (independent of this being about guns) tends to land one in hot water. If/when a federal court decides this is unconstitutional, what can they do? They cannot roll back the law to a previous version. They cannot rewrite the law themselves or otherwise modify it. What they do is strike it down (maybe enjoining it first from enforcement while the parties argue it out). So what are they striking down? MGL 140 131M, the part of MGL that makes it a felony to possess an assault weapon. There goes the entire AWB. Gone. All because they failed to grandfather what we already have.

If I could predict the future, I would have already won Powerball for $1.5B and not still be living in MA. But I do think we will see a grandfather clause before this gets enacted, whether put in by the Senate, the House or when they reconcile.

That's something at least to hold us over hopefully until this goes through the courts. No one has said it yet so thank you sir for taking the time to explain it as best as you can.

 

[Dadstoys]

I have had several young Leftists laugh at me and say, we are just waiting until your generation dies off, then we run the show.

 

[Harry Christopher]

A different summary than the one I wrote last night. Some clarifications. Some conclusions. Some opinions. Hopefully a useful way to look at this sh*tshow.

First and foremost, it is a modification of existing MGL leaving by default, everything we know and love in place without change. The version passed in the house is NOT relevant.

1. Assault Weapons. They have removed the federal reference and written the law out long hand. They have made some not nice modifications including codifying a number of Healeyisms. ALL AR-15s are assault weapons. Once an assault weapon, always an assault weapon, so no compliance work to fix something. The Copy/Duplicate language exists in a very unpleasant form. No new grandfathering so all the post 1994 weapons you have that are compliant with the AWB are now illegal if they are not compliant with the new AWB.
2. Rifle, shotgun and firearm definitions now include the frame or receiver of a rifle or shotgun. So MA is now regulating frames and receivers. Since all ARs are assault weapons, all AR receivers are assault weapons. Dealer's cannot transfer/sell off roster firearms and since the frame/receiver is a firearm, no more frame transfers.
3. No Ghost Guns. ie no guns without serial numbers if the gun was manufactured after 1968. No making guns from unfinished unserialized stuff (80% lowers). All guns must get serialized and must be serialized before you assemble them. You can assemble, but not manufacture. Ghost guns bad.
4. No 3D printers, CNC machines or code to use on said devices unless you are a 07 FFL. They write it less broadly than that, but they use language that could effectively ban them completely for everyone if they choose.
5. Liability to everyone in the gun industry if they think you are marketing to anyone under 18 or reasonably should know someone under 18 will use or used or could use or... Avoiding federal protection and opening you up to civil liability that is unbounded. Essentially means a gunstore is a bad career choice. The way it is written, I as a dealer could sell someone a nice sig rifle. Unbeknownst to me, Sig is marketing them in such a way as to be considered marketing to under 18s. I now can get sued because I sold it. Try and manage your risk. I dare you.
6. Makes all municipal administrative and court/judicial administrative buildings sensitive places. Thall shall not confront your oppressors while armed.
7. Removes state preemption for gun laws essentially allowing any municipal or county government to pass whatever regulation they want restricting guns. Best of luck driving down the road and knowing what the laws are of any town you pass through.
8. Greatly expands ERPO (red flag). Not worth listing how, just know that anyone you pass on the street can ERPO you.
9. Expands background checks for FID/LTC particularly in the area of mental health. One of the worst is that a 3 day involuntary hold is now a statutory disqualifier. Since this is a zero due process hold, one doctor can take away your gun rights on a whim at anytime. The hold standard was involuntary commitment which required a judge.

While reading this:




It would appear that the past purchase of ammunition and/or rentals of firearms would now be aggregated in with the general category of potential "disqualifying conditions" during the course of the LTC licensing process. I may be mistaken but having gone thru said licensing process since 1976 I do not specifically recall my historical record of rentals or ammunition purchases as part and parcel of the overall determination process as to whether or not I was a "suitable" individual to be issued an LTC.

Since the purchase of ammunition is not presently tracked at point of sale here in the Republic........ as far as I am aware........ one wonders where the licensing authorities will obtain the records of an LTC candidate's retail buying history in the field of sporting goods?

Will the Powers That Be contact all companies that ship ammo to the Republic and subpoena their sales records to see if a candidate has purchased ammunition from them?

Will they contact all the FFLs in the surrounding states to inquire if the candidate made ammo or long gun purchases from them?

Where will they be able to collect this information from to fulfill this new legislative edict?

One could be forgiven for arriving at the conclusion that Boston is saying .........we are not trying to take your guns and violate your Constitutional civil rights........you can keep your guns but you just can not own the ammunition required to actually shoot them.

The only remaining question now is how far the governmental fist will be inserted in one's stern quarters.........just up to the wrist......... or all the way up to the elbow...........

 

[vcman]

It must be fate that I got the listing agreement to sign from my realtor the day this dropped. I signed this morning. Listing at the beginning of March and out of here at the latest by mid-May. Not soon enough.

i envy u, please run out of this state asap, and dont forget to take a shit at ma border before you cross it. next year am going down to Tennessee and Missouri to visit a few friends and check out their area, maybe i get lucky.ill use a few years up here to fix up my house and try to get good price 4 it.

 

[ProGun]

It must be fate that I got the listing agreement to sign from my realtor the day this dropped. I signed this morning. Listing at the beginning of March and out of here at the latest by mid-May. Not soon enough.

Awesome, where you going?

 

[wildwest]

While reading this:

View attachment 843366
View attachment 843365

It would appear that the past purchase of ammunition and/or rentals of firearms would now be aggregated in with the general category of potential "disqualifying conditions" during the course of the LTC licensing process. I may be mistaken but having gone thru said licensing process since 1976 I do not specifically recall my historical record of rentals or ammunition purchases as part and parcel of the overall determination process as to whether or not I was a "suitable" individual to be issued an LTC.

Since the purchase of ammunition is not presently tracked at point of sale here in the Republic........ as far as I am aware........ one wonders where the licensing authorities will obtain the records of an LTC candidate's retail buying history in the field of sporting goods?

Will the Powers That Be contact all companies that ship ammo to the Republic and subpoena their sales records to see if a candidate has purchased ammunition from them?

Will they contact all the FFLs in the surrounding states to inquire if the candidate made ammo or long gun purchases from them?

Where will they be able to collect this information from to fulfill this new legislative edict?

One could be forgiven for arriving at the conclusion that Boston is saying .........we are not trying to take your guns and violate your Constitutional civil rights........you can keep your guns but you just can not own the ammunition required to actually shoot them.

The only remaining question now is how far the governmental fist will be inserted in one's stern quarters.........just up to the wrist......... or all the way up to the elbow...........

Good luck proving purchases of ammunition or anything for that matter is still present. " You purchased a lower parts kit where is it?" Oh that was previously unregulated, I traded it for a scratch ticket to this guy in Holyoke at the bottom of 391.

I would think/hope most companies would not cave, but more than likely just wash their hands with the Commiewealth and restrict all sales of anything.... exactly their intent

 

[Waher]

Straight from the Trojan horse's mouth

We've got to hope their legal Counsel disagrees with whatever greasy white shoes Bloomberg & Company sent to brief the Legislature that Jim Crow 2.0 will hold up in court said. Last round MCOPA seemed genuinely concerned that they were going to get absolutely prison f***ed in court and did not want to be subject to the mother of all beatdowns thanks to the Legislature putting them in a liable position.

 

[Mesatchornug]

Did Illinois have a similar MIRCS system in place prior to? I keep seeing Illinois' compliance rate of registration used as comparison but I'd think the state DB in Mass makes a big difference. ..to some anyway.

Can't speak to IL, but CT did. Still, their compliance was in the single digit percent range.

 

[Picton]

Last round MCOPA seemed genuinely concerned that they were going to get absolutely prison f***ed in court and did not want to be subject to the mother of all beatdowns thanks to the Legislature putting them in a liable position.

No matter what their public position may be, there will be almost no enthusiasm from local CoPs to enforce any of this. This just lards them with more and more stuff to enforce, with the awareness that it's all going to be found unconstitutional sooner or later.

They can have their cake and eat it too by "supporting" the legislation and then ignoring its enforcement.

 

[Palladin]

True....to a point....however we have some here who vote for Democrats.

When I lived in Dracut I voted for one democrat. State Rep Colleen Garry. Who always voted against gun bills

 

[556USER]

Can't speak to IL, but CT did. Still, their compliance was in the single digit percent range.

What does non compliance really gain for you if you are a gun enthusiast? Sure if I don't comply and leave it locked up in my safe there's a good chance that nothing will happen. Just take it to the range and some idiot dimes you out and off to jail you go. I can think of a specific trap shooter on here who I'd bet on to do that. Never being able to use it is not freedom.

 

[Harry Christopher]

Good luck proving purchases of ammunition or anything for that matter is still present. " You purchased a lower parts kit where is it?" Oh that was previously unregulated, I traded it for a scratch ticket to this guy in Holyoke at the bottom of 391.

I would think/hope most companies would not cave, but more than likely just wash their hands with the Commiewealth and restrict all sales of anything.... exactly their intent

If I am not mistaken some companies have already washed their hands of doing business in the Republic because they do not fully understand the finer points of the restrictions and do not wish to get entangled in costly litigation trying to defend themselves in the Republic.

While traveling thru the Holyoke area you may wish to avoid any commercial transactions in the general area of the 91 North bound rest area........I understand that that particular spot is well known for the "sporting nature" of its customers........or so I have been led to believe........

 

[Spartan65]

What does non compliance really gain for you if you are a gun enthusiast? Sure if I don't comply and leave it locked up in my safe there's a good chance that nothing will happen. Just take it to the range and some idiot dimes you out and off to jail you go. I can think of a specific trap shooter on here who I'd bet on to do that. Never being able to use it is not freedom.

Just name names, it’s easier.

Also join a club who’s policy is snitches get stitches.

 

[LT5]

Hope they jail all (well, almost all) of us NES members at the same prison…

Where are you in for? Bayo lug, you? Threaded barrel…

At least we have our first gang hand sign (the shocker)

 

[mothybee]

Think about proabision alcohol was leagle and then poof it was not, at one time possision of cocane and opiates was perfectly leagle and then poof ileaglle. It has been done before. This is not new.

Drinking and drugging aren't constitutional rights.

 

[556USER]

Just name names, it’s easier.

Also join a club who’s policy is snitches get stitches.

I have joined a better club. It's called citizens of NH. LOL

 

[wildwest]

If I am not mistaken some companies have already washed their hands of doing business in the Republic because they do not fully understand the finer points of the restrictions and do not wish to get entangled in costly litigation trying to defend themselves in the Republic.

While traveling thru the Holyoke area you may wish to avoid any commercial transactions in the general area of the 91 North bound rest area........I understand that that particular spot is well known for the "sporting nature" of its customers........or so I have been led to believe........

I guess I what I meant was to prove things by purchasing would to burdensome, because you can't prove current possession. They will just push more to boycott Mass . Much like I avoid all rest stops

 

[Harry Christopher]

View attachment 843385

A prime example of why soap on a rope is a treasured Christmas gift in some social circles..........

 

[APFSDS]

Awesome, where you going?

North Carolina, which is where I spent a good part of my childhood and went to college. I have friends there I haven't seen in like four years, I can't wait to go visit everyone. Ooh yeah, and buy another suppressor and a PSA AK

i envy u, please run out of this state asap, and dont forget to take a shit at ma border before you cross it. next year am going down to Tennessee and Missouri to visit a few friends and check out their area, maybe i get lucky.ill use a few years up here to fix up my house and try to get good price 4 it.

haha, I was thinking of stopping on the side of the road right after the "welcome to massachusetts" sign on my way out and getting a pic of me flipping it the double bird but that seems like too much work.

 

[slipknot]

How are they going to handle post 1994 SBR’s that were in state legally. The feds know where they are. Taxes were paid in accordance with law.

Seems like grounds for a good court challenge.

They welcome the challenge apparently, afterall it is not costing them since we the taxpayers pay for it. They don't give a shit

 

[Harry Christopher]

I guess I what I meant was to prove things by purchasing would to burdensome, because you can't prove current possession. They will just push more to boycott Mass . Much like I avoid all rest stops

I suspect the concerted effort to frighten away out of state vendors by the enactment of unconstitutional legislation is in fact part of the grand plan to disenfranchise gun owners as much and as quickly as they can by all means fair and foul.

The Brattleboro rest area is lovely.........due south of there not so much..........

 

[LT5]

A prime example of why soap on a rope is a treasured Christmas gift in some social circles..........

Clark, that’s the gift that keeps on giving the whole year.

 

[Lxpony]

AWB conjecture

Ok, this is not fully baked but I think the general logic is sound.

The Senate bill has no grandfathering of post 94 assault weapons. So you can have a gun that was purchased legally that suddenly becomes illegal with the passage of S2572.

The House similarly had the same issue with their first version of the bill. Leadership there was concerned that this would fail constitutionally and as a result they could lose the entire AWB (discussed later)

The Senate may or may not amend S2572 to address this. If they do not, it seems likely that in conference with the house it will have to get added given that the house leadership understands the need.

Why is no grandfathering a problem for the gun grabbers? You can decide whether the 4th, 5th or 14th amendment applies. Making lawfully acquired property unlawful with the passing of a law without proper compensation (independent of this being about guns) tends to land one in hot water. If/when a federal court decides this is unconstitutional, what can they do? They cannot roll back the law to a previous version. They cannot rewrite the law themselves or otherwise modify it. What they do is strike it down (maybe enjoining it first from enforcement while the parties argue it out). So what are they striking down? MGL 140 131M, the part of MGL that makes it a felony to possess an assault weapon. There goes the entire AWB. Gone. All because they failed to grandfather what we already have.

If I could predict the future, I would have already won Powerball for $1.5B and not still be living in MA. But I do think we will see a grandfather clause before this gets enacted, whether put in by the Senate, the House or when they reconcile.

Sounds like local (non fudd) guns stores are about to be very busy. I have a very short like BUT EXPENSIVE list of outstanding guns I need but are not financially committing until this matter has been clarified.

 

[Roadglide]

I didn't want to seem like a negative Nancy , but I had a nagging suspicion once they got their carve outs they would f*ck us.

I'm not blowing my own horn here but I didn't have a suspicion I F***** knew they would. They cant be trusted.....ever!!

 

[Quite_Exasperated]

Wow! They sat down with some turncoat that gave away all the secrets. Built a gun? Can't sell it. Everything is an assault weapon. If you already own unserialized receivers, they're illegal, huge 1st amendment issues with 3d printer files. Holy f***ing shit.

WE gave away the secrets..

 

[bren42970]

When I lived in Dracut I voted for one democrat. State Rep Colleen Garry. Who always voted against gun bills

I voted for a D, Jim Timilty, who voiced his opposition to similar crap. His Replacement barely beat an R and I plan on reminding him of that. Any one Feeney’s area needs to speak up.

 

[Roadglide]

No matter what their public position may be, there will be almost no enthusiasm from local CoPs to enforce any of this. This just lards them with more and more stuff to enforce, with the awareness that it's all going to be found unconstitutional sooner or later.

They can have their cake and eat it too by "supporting" the legislation and then ignoring its enforcement.

How many of them quit over a vaccine. How many will quit and surrender their pension for refusing to enforce this. I know we're a long stretch from that but if that does become a reality I see exactly zero taking a stand over their paycheck.