MA Gun Grab 2024: H.4885 - Passed legislature, headed to the governor

[HARRYM]

ITs all because we (the gun owners) are weak.... How many people show up at rallies? few hundreds tops?

Rallies are spitting into the wind. Leftists don't care about your opinion. It's suing in court and that takes money, a lot of it. Gun owners are either gonna pony up or continue to sit on their arses. I have spoken to this many times over the years and have always been so damn frustrated over it. The Leftist put their money where their mouth is.

 

[HorizontalHunter]

‘Tremendously devious’: Gun rights group blasts bill scheduled for debate in Massachusetts Senate

“We voiced our concerns about the House bill but the Senate bill created a whole new set of concerns,” Jim Wallace, executive director of the Gun Owners Action League, told the Herald.

www.bostonherald.com

This is the worst part of it. They will get combined in reconciliation and whatever monstrosity comes out of that will be on the Governers desk before we even know about it.

 

[HARRYM]

Dude, this is awesome. Does it also say something about guns and the right to keep them? ... because if it does, then we are good, this will not pass.

(Sarc)

This is a reasonable thought.

 

[not new guy]

I've tried to follow all of the post and I read through the bill. If I am understanding things correctly PCCs that accept a magazine and has 2 or more evil features will be considered an assault rifle. For instance the PCC accepts a large capacity feeding device (magazine), has a pistol grip, has an adjustable stock or a threaded barrel (or maybe both). That's 2+ features so bad. So if you buy one without the threaded barrel and adj. stock you are OK. Of course you can't pin the stock or replace the stock or pin/weld a comp on the barrel because once an assault rifle always an assault rifle.

It will be interesting to see how this shakes out as far as Grandfathering if they have it. Lots of Ruger PCCs sold in MA that are considered assault rifles and all of them in 2018 or later.

Haven't they always been considered an assault rifle in that configuration?

 

[HARRYM]

This is the worst part of it. They will get combined in reconciliation and whatever monstrosity comes out of that will be on the Governers desk before we even know about it.

This has been in the works since Healey was elected. You just haven't heard the Warden's footsteps coming down the aisle is all.

 

[Toast]

ITs all because we (the gun owners) are weak.... How many people show up at rallies? few hundreds tops?

Why show up for something that doesn't get reported in the news? Did anyone see any stories that would make him think last year's rally got any kind of publicity?

 

[CrackPot]

I've tried to follow all of the post and I read through the bill. If I am understanding things correctly PCCs that accept a magazine and has 2 or more evil features will be considered an assault rifle. For instance the PCC accepts a large capacity feeding device (magazine), has a pistol grip, has an adjustable stock or a threaded barrel (or maybe both). That's 2+ features so bad. So if you buy one without the threaded barrel and adj. stock you are OK. Of course you can't pin the stock or replace the stock or pin/weld a comp on the barrel because once an assault rifle always an assault rifle.

It will be interesting to see how this shakes out as far as Grandfathering if they have it. Lots of Ruger PCCs sold in MA that are considered assault rifles and all of them in 2018 or later.

PCCs already are assault weapons if they have 2 or more features. This is not in anyway new. The only thing new is that you cannot get a SKU that is an assault weapon and have the FFL do compliance work to sell it to you. You will now be limited to models that come from the factory AWB compliant.

Grandfathering will not matter to Ruger PCCs since the rules about them remain the same.

Not sure what 2018 is about.

 

[alx]

Dude, this is awesome. Does it also say something about guns and the right to keep them? ... because if it does, then we are good, this will not pass.

(Sarc)

I believe sarcasm in this particular case is not doing you any favors

I will let the texts speak for themselves:

2A

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

9.3.1

No bill of attainder or ex post facto Law shall be passed.

Which one of the two is more precise and not open for interpretation?

I know. Both are pretty simple. But legal fights have challenged on countless occasions every aspect of the 2A as we know it. They say 2A was created in different times and now is attacked as archaic and not within the spirit of its creation... a black powder musket can fire twice in a minute vs 30 rounds from an AR in couple seconds... we all know how the anti 2A narrative goes...

The Supreme Court rarely takes 2A cases so their support on the 2A longevity is unsteady to say the least.

However, the Supreme Court has determined on multiple occasions that

The Court has construed both clauses to ban legislatures from enacting laws that impose criminal liability or increase criminal punishment retroactively.

and

The Supreme Court has cited cases interpreting the federal Ex Post Facto Clause in challenges under the state clause, and vice versa, implying that the two clauses have the same scope

The second quote essentially means that no state can have their deviation of the federal law prohibiting Ex Post Facto. So the great state of MA cannot even say "screw the feds, we are doing our own thing".

So think of 9.3.1 cases like Bruen x many. The Supreme Court has indicated on multiple occasions that 9.3.1 is not open to interpretation. So... no local guberment regardless of how zealous it is will get themselves in this particular foretold legal failure. They will grandfather in.

 

[CrackPot]

I believe sarcasm in this particular case is not doing you any favors

I will let the texts speak for themselves:

2A


9.3.1


Which one of the two is more precise and not open for interpretation?

I know. Both are pretty simple. But legal fights have challenged on countless occasions every aspect of the 2A as we know it. 2A was created in different times and now is attacked as archaic and not within the spirit of its creation...

However, the Supreme Court has determined on multiple occasions that


and


So think Bruen x many. No local guberment regardless of how zealous it is will get themselves in this particular foretold legal failure.

Love the perspective. If only reality was as simple and straight forward.

 

[HARRYM]

Gun Owners' Action League

Massachusetts Second Amendment Organization

www.goal.org

Donate | Commonwealth Second Amendment

Commonwealth Second Amendment (Comm2A) is a Massachusetts based non-profit dedicated to preserving and expanding the rights of firearms owners in the northeast. We are dedicated to promoting a better understanding of rights guaranteed by the Second Amendment to the United States Constitution. In...

comm2a.org

Mount up and ride to the sound of the guns.

 

[p..]

Amendments due to be filed in the Senate today by 5pm. This will go to full Senate vote Thursday 2/1.

Source: ‘Tremendously devious’: Gun rights group blasts bill scheduled for debate in Massachusetts Senate

Wow that was fast. I didn't realize that, and I was on the call with Senator Brownsberger yesterday. Maybe he said it and I missed it.

I called my Senator's office, every line went to voice mail. So I sent in a one page email with several bullet points and asked for a vote against the bill or to at least correct the flaws I outlined before allowing it to pass. Got an automatic reply about a minute later.

 

[CrackPot]

This is the worst part of it. They will get combined in reconciliation and whatever monstrosity comes out of that will be on the Governers desk before we even know about it.

Harder than you think to do. The House basically deleted chap 140 sec 121 through 131Y and replaced it wholesale. That is part of why it took 135 pages to take away all our rights.

The senate bill was far more strategic and made modifications to the existing law. They did a lot less and allowed the existing case law and infrastructure to remain.

So if they want to bring any concept in from the House, they will have to add new language to the Senate version in a way that works in the current framework. A lot of what the house did that is different REQUIRED a total rewrite to be possible. I would instead expect small tweaks rather than conceptual adds.

Remember, MCOPA has blessed what the Senate did. No gun bill has ever passed w/o MCOPA blessing. Bringing in any of the ideas from the House that the Senate did not already include while possible seems unlikely.

Then again, this is MA and they will run gun owners over without a second thought, so anything is possible. But I am betting on the final bill very closely resembling whatever the Senate passes.

 

[EJFudd]

Rallies are spitting into the wind. Leftists don't care about your opinion.

Why show up for something that doesn't get reported in the news? Did anyone see any stories that would make him think last year's rally got any kind of publicity?

The "Rally on the Common" thing has been a joke for years. The lefty DimocRATS laugh at it. It does nothing... it affects nothing... if a rally happens and no one reports on it, did it really even happen? This is what I mean when I say that GOAL seems wedded to old, ineffective strategies.

 

[PappyM3]

The "Rally on the Common" thing has been a joke for years. The lefty DimocRATS laugh at it. It does nothing... it affects nothing... if a rally happens and no one reports on it, did it really even happen? This is what I mean when I say that GOAL seems wedded to old, ineffective strategies.

And when they do get reported, they’re reported as having a factor of 10 fewer participants than were actually there.

 

[HARRYM]

The "Rally on the Common" thing has been a joke for years. The lefty DimocRATS laugh at it. It does nothing... it affects nothing... if a rally happens and no one reports on it, did it really even happen? This is what I mean when I say that GOAL seems wedded to old, ineffective strategies.

Send Lawyers, guns and money, the shit has hit the fan......

 

[p..]

And when they do get reported, they’re reported as having a factor of 10 fewer participants than were actually there.

Can confirm. Absolutely true.

 

[Cavpilot2k]

My brain hurts after reading all 23 pages between last night and today. One question I don't see a clear answer to is regarding pre-ban ('94) mags. I know this would (unless amended to include grandfathering) make all AW's illegal, but what about pre-ban mags?
I apologize if it has been said and I missed it, but there is A LOT of discussion here.
TIA,

 

[Ultimate Shield]

The 2nd amendment violations aside, yada yada yada... (they don't care). Where this bill also easily violates the 1st Amendment, 4th Amendment, and possibly even the 5th Amendments as well(??) is frankly bad enough as is. Would not Ma's fake "registration" not instantly become state imposed incrimination having been turned into a felon once again overnight by legislative pen stroke for anyone who Had till then been following the written law of MA's AWB?

It sounds like I wont even be able to own a M1 Garand in Massachusetts now if this passes?

How is this not an easy instant court case win? ESPECALLY in light of the Bruen decision to back it. Would it not be the equivalent of ignoring the Heller decision as well?

If NYS can get its Bruen case, why cant we should this disgusting and frankly blatantly draconian piece of anti-Civil Rights legislation get passed through?

 

[Amputee Marksman]

PCCs already are assault weapons if they have 2 or more features. This is not in anyway new. The only thing new is that you cannot get a SKU that is an assault weapon and have the FFL do compliance work to sell it to you. You will now be limited to models that come from the factory AWB compliant.

So let's say hypothetically you purchased a PCC with 2 or more of the evil features from a MA FFL then you are illegal regardless of the fact the FFL sold/transferred it to you.

Grandfathering will not matter to Ruger PCCs since the rules about them remain the same.

Not sure what 2018 is about.

Ruger PCCs weren't introduced until December 2017. I made the comment in reference to the 2016 edict. I guess I added confusion instead of clarity.

 

[40 Creedmoor fan]

Are you factoring in public pension liabilities?

Those are paid first, yes.
Last year, about halfway through it, they realized that there would be a major decrease in taxes. Healy immediately said that the public pension liabilities fund would be paid first. I suspect that if she doesn't, there goes the primary base of her supporters.
Government employees always vote for more government.

 

[HARRYM]

The 2nd amendment violations aside, yada yada yada... (they don't care). Where this bill also easily violates the 1st Amendment, 4th Amendment, and possibly even the 5th Amendments as well(??) is frankly bad enough as is. Would not Ma's fake "registration" not instantly become state imposed incrimination having been turned into a felon once again overnight by legislative pen stroke for anyone who Had till then been following the written law of MA's AWB?

It sounds like I wont even be able to own a M1 Garand in Massachusetts now if this passes?

How is this not an easy instant court case win? ESPECALLY in light of the Bruen decision to back it. Would it not be the equivalent of ignoring the Heller decision as well?

If NYS can get its Bruen case, why cant we should this disgusting and frankly blatantly draconian piece of anti-Civil Rights legislation get passed through?

It takes years to get a case before the SCOTUS and that's if they decide to take the case. The current court is big on petitioners following the process via the lower courts and has shown no interest in taking cases before the lower courts had their say. The entire process takes years and that's exactly what the Leftists know and bank on.

 

[EJFudd]

Are you factoring in public pension liabilities?

Let's get real. Public pension liabilities will not affect in any way what the state decides to do or not do with respect to this obscene anti-gunowner bill.

 

[HorizontalHunter]

Harder than you think to do. The House basically deleted chap 140 sec 121 through 131Y and replaced it wholesale. That is part of why it took 135 pages to take away all our rights.

The senate bill was far more strategic and made modifications to the existing law. They did a lot less and allowed the existing case law and infrastructure to remain.

So if they want to bring any concept in from the House, they will have to add new language to the Senate version in a way that works in the current framework. A lot of what the house did that is different REQUIRED a total rewrite to be possible. I would instead expect small tweaks rather than conceptual adds.

Remember, MCOPA has blessed what the Senate did. No gun bill has ever passed w/o MCOPA blessing. Bringing in any of the ideas from the House that the Senate did not already include while possible seems unlikely.

Then again, this is MA and they will run gun owners over without a second thought, so anything is possible. But I am betting on the final bill very closely resembling whatever the Senate passes.

That your right. as bad as this is it is better than the house insanity.

 

[paul73]

How is this not an easy instant court case win?

how? easy. you get a judge that is a part of the same cabal that is hellbent on setting up new and updated version of dictatorship of proletariat, you get a 1st circuit court that consists out of the same minded products law schools produced after getting under control of the same cabal.

and you get a useless scotus that rejects cases and even if accepts cases and produces reasonable rulings - is useless, as there is no enforcement mechanism for those rulings, so state gov-nahs wipe their ass with those rulings and enforce reality via their edicts.

so, yeah, easy. that`s how.

 

[1903Collector]

SCOTUS rulings are useless if not obeyed and there are no repercussions for not doing so.

 

[Spartan65]

SCOTUS rulings are useless if not obeyed and there are no repercussions for not doing so.

The founders did not imagine that would be a situation that those who took an oath would create.

 

[71montess]

Just remembering when Healey and Campbell were elected and some here stated they would plot silently then unleash hell on the 2A folks and we were called pant shitters....good times.....

Picton ? He likes calling guys pant shitters

 

[cstockwell]

The founders did not imagine that would be a situation that those who took an oath would create.

Yet here we are. And there are zero repercussions for politicians who freely write unconstitutional laws against the citizens. Why would they stop doing it when nothing at all happens to them and only the peons are affected by them.

 

[Mesatchornug]

So let's say hypothetically you purchased a PCC with 2 or more of the evil features from a MA FFL then you are illegal regardless of the fact the FFL sold/transferred it to you.

correct. If it's not a named firearm, it's allowed no more than one named feature.

 

[HARRYM]

Yet here we are. And there are zero repercussions for politicians who freely write unconstitutional laws against the citizens. Why would they stop doing it when nothing at all happens to them and only the peons are affected by them

Massachusetts residents love Leftist Politicians.