MA Gun Grab 2024: H.4885 - Passed legislature, headed to the governor

[allen-1]

Starting with "but I have a gay/black friend/brother/uncle and I don't have a problem with him, but..." is the same as "I support the second amendment, but..." It's bullshit weasel-wording.

Why do you care even a little bit what someone else calls themself? That's a serious question. We're not talking a surprise "Crying Game" situation here, they literally have zero overlap with you.

I don't care what's in someone else's pants or how they dress or if they want to be called "Tony" or "Tanya" None of my business. Unless you're getting naked with them, or their doctor, it's none of your business either.

It's none of my business until it becomes my business through their actions. My wife was in the changing room at Planet Fitness and a male calling himself female walked in and undressed. My wife was *pissed*. She dressed, spoke to management, was told that they were okay with the actions of that person - and she tore up her membership and hasn't been back.

That's not "I heard it from my neighbor, who heard it from their sister who heard it from blah, blah, blah" - that's directly from my wife.

There's a sign on the bathroom at a local pizzeria we go to regularly, (yeah, they actually do have a few good pizza places here in Georgia, *few*).

 

[Dench]

It's none of my business until it becomes my business through their actions. My wife was in the changing room at Planet Fitness and a male calling himself female walked in and undressed. My wife was *pissed*. She dressed, spoke to management, was told that they were okay with the actions of that person - and she tore up her membership and hasn't been back.

That's not "I heard it from my neighbor, who heard it from their sister who heard it from blah, blah, blah" - that's directly from my wife.

There's a sign on the bathroom at a local pizzeria we go to regularly, (yeah, they actually do have a few good pizza places here in Georgia, *few*).View attachment 898968

Exile burrito in Berlin has the same sign. They got bagged for donating to Littletons drag queens story hour featuring a literal child predator.

Haven't been back. It's a shame because the foods great and the owner seemed ok till I saw that little tidbit on thier Facebook page where they defended thar donation.

I'll spend my money in businesses that don't hate me.

I left planet fitness earlier this year for the bathroom tranny thing also. They can get f***ed.

 

[kalash]

Honestly, I think that most of us just want to be left alone to live our lives and not have our freedoms, and property taken away.

This bill is a great example of why this libertarian ideal doesn't work. You can only "live and let live" if everyone follows it; otherwise while you're too busy being "left alone" your political enemies will be hard at work chipping away at your rights. You have to stand up and defend your values.

 

[808]

Anyone know if this is a viable option? Because we can get 15k signatures.View attachment 898957

https://www.mass.gov/info-details/constitutional-requirements-for-initiative-petitions#:~:text=Amendment%20Article%2048%20of%20the,for%20submission%20to%20the%20voters.

 

[ddeck]

Until they put those retro rifles on the banned rifle list right? I just keep thinking everyone is going nuts trying to interpret “shroud” etc and it’s all moot if they just add everything to the banned list they are gonna come up with.

My reading of the new law with respect to M1 carbines is as follows. I should qualify this as "who the f*ck knows."

The definition of "assault style firearm" now includes the additional "shroud" definition which also indicates whether "part" of the barrel is covered. The GI M1 handguard does do this (IMO). So, it could be an assault style firearm. However, Section 16(g)(iv) indicates: "any of the firearms, or replicas or duplicates of such firearms, specified in appendix A to 18 U.S.C. section 922 as appearing in such appendix on September 13, 1994, as such firearms were manufactured on October 1, 1993;" and there is an Iver Johnson M1 carbine on that list. So, it falls outside of the definition of an "assault style firearm." It looks like the Iver Johnson M1 carbine has a ventilated handguard like the Universal ones do, but I don't think that matters since it is essentially a copy of the GI M1.

But then you have to look at if it is defined as a "large capacity firearm" and it clearly is since that is pretty much any semi-auto firearm. And since this is now a "firearm" then it would have to be on the all inclusive "firearm roster." Of course, no long guns are on the roster now since the previous definition was only pertinent to handguns.

It is clear to me at this moment (things can change) that a C&R holder can still purchase M1 carbines from a MA dealer since section 128A(f) indicates (I left the line numbers in so you can look for yourself):

1141 (f) A bona fide collector of firearms may purchase a firearm that was not previously
1142 owned or registered in the commonwealth from a dealer licensed under section 122 if it is a curio
1143 or relic firearm as defined in section 121.

And "bona fide collector" is defined in the new law as:

196 “Bona fide collector of firearms”, a licensed collector pursuant to 18 U.S.C. section
197 923(b).

That USC section is, in practice, the FFL 03.


All the standard disclaimers, IANAL, but I guarantee I did more research for this answer than 98% of the legislators that voted for this bill.

 

[Coyote33]

View: https://www.instagram.com/p/C9qSTh3vdUj/

 

[Coyote33]

Has anyone turned the line by line edit BS into a strikethrough and bold copy of what the laws would actually become?

Can't wait to see the new (REQUIRED BY MA LAW!) Massachusetts Gun Laws poster.

Massachusetts Bill HD.4420 "An act to modernize gun Laws"

walk with me here ... ;-) the point is to get across what this bill does to you as a citizen of massachuetts *right now*. even if you are anti-gun, the message needs to be this goes too far, and even the most committed (or should be) leftist needs to understand this can also happen to them in...

www.northeastshooters.com

 

[pastera]

I don't think that's correct.

Under the NEW law they will be assault style firearms, true. But under the CURRENT law, they are legally processed, both as unbuilt receivers or completed massified rifles. And the NEW law, if it's effective date is August 1st or later, has grandfathering of assault style firearms under section 131M (b), as long as they were legally possessed under the CURRENT law, and registered in the FUTURE, yet to be developed, registration system mentioned under the new section 121B.

An important point is, the current law and the new law is not both in effect at the same time. And if the new law is effective August 1 or later, then it appears to me that there is indeed full grandfathering of everything that was legally owned under the current law.

Having said all that, IANAL.

The bill explicitly calls out that firearms that fall under the copies and duplicates clause are excluded if they were registered by 7/20/16.
If the other grandfathering language of legally possessed and registered on 8/1/24.

The Supreme Court has made it clear that ALL language in a law has to have meaning therefore the only way to interpret the overlap is that only those copies and duplicates registered by 7/20/16 are actually excluded from the ban.

You do you for your personal risk tolerance.
However make it clear that my position is also the position taken by Guida who used to be the person in charge of interpretation of all of this shit.

 

[pastera]

Could someone please summarize the changes to where we can legally carry?

No one knows since the definition is overly broad but zero public buildings parking or common areas.
Essentially no carry in many dense areas because there might be a government office in a strip mall.

 

[LakeTrout]

This bill is a great example of why this libertarian ideal doesn't work. You can only "live and let live" if everyone follows it; otherwise while you're too busy being "left alone" your political enemies will be hard at work chipping away at your rights. You have to stand up and defend your values.

I don’t think the libertarian ideal involves not defending the ideal or one’s values. Quite the opposite. Wanting to be left alone doesn’t mean being a pacifist or abstaining from politics. Those who want to be left alone do fight for the right to be left alone.

You’ll notice the words “Don’t tread on me” are depicted below a rattlesnake and not something soft and fuzzy.

 

[Grendizer138]

No one knows since the definition is overly broad but zero public buildings parking or common areas.
Essentially no carry in many dense areas because there might be a government office in a strip mall.

If I’m not in New Jersey, I’m carrying.

Rip the mattress tags off, fellas.

 

[pastera]

Has to be lawfully owned by 8/1, and registered. In that order.
The registration portal doesn't exist yet, register it when it does.

As I have said the current portal is the registration database they are talking about.
If no means of registration exists then the law can't call out registration by 7/20/16 but it does. Along with that the legislative intent is clear from the summary that transaction portal is what they consider registration. That 100% will hold up in every court from Mass all the way to SCOTUS (meaning of registration in the bill not the constitutionality of registration)

 

[PMPSHOT]

I am seeing a lot of ranting and raving and almost no real actionable items being suggested to change things in the system. People need to accept that this is here and it will be a long strategic legal battle (Rob Boudrie alluded to this) to potentially get some items changed.




This is understandable as some people are in a state of shock (we knew this was coming for months).

 

[theciviliansupply]

Does this law prohibit sales from online vendors not licensed in Ma? If so, how will dealers get anything?

It does not prohibit sales from online vendors outside of MA. However, it could be interpreted that MA dealers can't directly import anything that isn't already "compliant," which means items would have to get shipped to a dealer out of state, made compliant, and then shipped back into the state. I think it's an unintended consequence of this Bill. If so, it's very much like CA. Cali FFLs can't import "assault weapons" into the state but can import them from another FFL who has done the compliance work from the distributor. I've done this a few times with items shipping to California (i.e. adding a fin grip, grinding down threads, etc.)

 

[ddeck]

It does not prohibit sales from online vendors outside of MA. However, it could be interpreted that MA dealers can't directly import anything that isn't already "compliant," which means items would have to get shipped to a dealer out of state, made compliant, and then shipped back into the state. I think it's an unintended consequence of this Bill. If so, it's very much like CA. Cali FFLs can't import "assault weapons" into the state but can import them from another FFL who has done the compliance work from the distributor. I've done this a few times with items shipping to California (i.e. adding a fin grip, grinding down threads, etc.)

Knowing the original poster, I think the question is more about ammunition/reloading components as opposed to firearms.

I've been trying to find the answer but still trying to decipher things.

 

[Grendizer138]

I am seeing a lot of ranting and raving and almost no real actionable items being suggested to change things.

View attachment 898994

This is understandable as some people are in a state of shock (we knew this was coming for months).

View attachment 898997

For 16 posts in 11 years, this is a doozy and a bit Eppsien.

 

[Picton]

I don’t think the libertarian ideal involves not defending the ideal or one’s values. Quite the opposite. Wanting to be left alone doesn’t mean being a pacifist or abstaining from politics. Those who want to be left alone do fight for the right to be left alone.

You’ll notice the words “Don’t tread on me” are depicted below a rattlesnake and not something soft and fuzzy.

Being a libertarian is like being Switzerland or old-skool Sweden: sure, you're neutral. But you can't expect other nations to respect that neutrality. It's on you to secure your own neutrality by maintaining a strong army and setting up fortresses that can defend your borders.

 

[Atlantis]

I am seeing a lot of ranting and raving and almost no real actionable items being suggested to change things.

View attachment 898994

This is understandable as some people are in a state of shock (we knew this was coming for months).

View attachment 898997

Why do we need to change things? I suppose you can argue for actively overturning this tyranny to enable others access to their 2A rights. Aside from that, I have already secured the means to assert and enjoy my rights. While direct action may be warranted, I feel morally safe simply resigning myself to a proportional response. You ignore my rights, I’ll ignore your illegitimate laws. You show up with the intent to use force in pursuit of tyranny? Force will be used in response, pursuing liberty.

 

[Grendizer138]

Being a libertarian is like being Switzerland or old-skool Sweden: sure, you're neutral. But you can't expect other nations to respect that neutrality. It's on you to secure your own neutrality by maintaining a strong army and setting up fortresses that can defend your borders.

I am going to steal @allen-1’s quote:

“It’s not my business until it becomes my business “

 

[Picton]

You ignore my rights, I’ll ignore your illegitimate laws. You show up with the intent to use force in pursuit of tyranny? Force will be used in response, pursuing liberty.

This x100.

"Writing another petition" is not useful. Until the courts get around to smacking down our delusional state government, we're on our own. I'm fine with that.

 

[Dadstoys]

I 90% agree with this.

That doesn't change the fact that the people under the rainbow umbrella see gun owners as a direct threat. If NES is any indication of anything, it's not surprising they feel that way. There's lots of people on NES (not all, surely, but enough to really stand out) who write stuff that is incredibly hostile to the people who just want to be left alone.

The problem is the hijacking of the umbrella by people who want to go after kids.
If they are allowed by the rest of the community to be the face of it , why expect anything but hostility?
I know a lot of gay folks and none of them support this ,but like good cops turning a blind eye to bad ones the bad ones are what the public sees.
People just want their kids left alone.

 

[Coyote33]

I am seeing a lot of ranting and raving and almost no real actionable items being suggested to change things in the system. People need to accept that this is here and it will be a long strategic legal battle (Rob Boudrie eluded to this) to potentially get some items changed.

Not usually the grammar nazi, and this is not even really grammar, but just wrong use of a word. I think you might have meant alluded.





Don't get me wrong, I have my own word issues:
which and that
who's and whose
appraise and apprise
recommend (almost always need spell check for this for some reason)

 

[Coyote33]

John Adams creation was the model for the US constitution and Jefferson took it a step further “shall not be infringed” but here we are.



https://www.mass.gov/guides/john-adams-the-massachusetts-constitution

Laughable mass.gov has a why study this rag.
Mass pols cannot be recalled so there is little recourse.

Thank you @Arto and @Hardwired for these.

I may end up using these somewhere.

 

[Grendizer138]

Not usually the grammar nazi, and this is not even really grammar, but just wrong use of a word. I think you might have meant alluded.


View attachment 899013 View attachment 899014


Don't get me wrong, I have my own word issues:
which and that
who's and whose
appraise and apprise
recommend (almost always need spell check for this for some reason)

Don’t sweet it, that one bothered me two.

 

[scott-o]

I just realized, this "shroud" atrocity would make an M1 Garand, M1 Carbine, M1A/M14 are all illegal as the wood/plastic covers the barrel and prevents shooter from burring their hand. This is absolute insanity.

 

[whatluck]

This bill is a great example of why this libertarian ideal doesn't work. You can only "live and let live" if everyone follows it; otherwise while you're too busy being "left alone" your political enemies will be hard at work chipping away at your rights. You have to stand up and defend your values.

live and let live is only for peace time. libertarianism looks more like fascism during wartime.

 

[MAJoe]

I just realized, this "shroud" atrocity would make an M1 Garand, M1 Carbine, M1A/M14 are all illegal as the wood/plastic covers the barrel and prevents shooter from burring their hand. This is absolute insanity.

Also Garands don’t have a detachable mag. Unless the state names them on the evil roster, it can’t be an AW even with a pistol grip and threaded barrel.

 

[Garys]

A friend is a former Libertarian. He even ran for, and lost, Congress on the Libertarin party ticket.

We were talking at lunch the other day and someone mentioned the Libertarian candidate for President.

My friend said that the problem with libertarianisms is the people who are Libertarians. Open borders are a great concept except then you have no borders and pretty soon no country.

It's a great ideal, but the problem with ideals is people.

This bill is a great example of why this libertarian ideal doesn't work. You can only "live and let live" if everyone follows it; otherwise while you're too busy being "left alone" your political enemies will be hard at work chipping away at your rights. You have to stand up and defend your values.

 

[maltc]

View: https://youtu.be/yN0F_h_xa-Y?si=kaH4J6TiHhstr0HO

 

[Dench]

A friend is a former Libertarian. He even ran for, and lost, Congress on the Libertarin party ticket.

We were talking at lunch the other day and someone mentioned the Libertarian candidate for President.

My friend said that the problem with libertarianisms is the people who are Libertarians. Open borders are a great concept except then you have no borders and pretty soon no country.

It's a great ideal, but the problem with ideals is people.

The Libertarians attract crazy loaner types who openly do not care about thier country.

I stepped away permanently after that woman they ran who was praising Kamala Harris. The next moron they put up is even worse