MA Gun Grab 2024: H.4885 - Passed legislature, headed to the governor

[Junior314]

Who is the 2A organization that plans on filing suit? Where should we be giving money.

 

[EJFudd]

Just sent GOAL $$

Who is the 2A organization that plans on filing suit? Where should we be giving money.

I am holding off on sending out my combined June & July pro-2A contributions until I see which organization is going to take the lead on fighting the monstrosity.

 

[inkdesigner]

But remember, the status of "copies and duplicates" registered post 7/20/16 is quite likely banned (I'm 90% certain of this). So you may be letting the government know you have felony possession of "illegal assault-style" guns.

Question around your interpretation of pre and post under the new language. If the "copies and duplicates" item was owned and "registered" to a valid LTC holder prior to 07/20/16 and that owner then transferred possession/ownership to another valid LTC holder after 07/20/16, is that item grandfathered or is the new, current owner on the hook for owning an "illegal" ASW since they took possession after 07/20/16?

 

[maltc]

Seems like a nice guy. Doesn't get it though. Voting in MA to fix this shit? As he said himself 50+ years of MA shitting on 2A.

I agree- voting them out is an absolute impossibility.

 

[maltc]

Who is the 2A organization that plans on filing suit? Where should we be giving money.

Usually comm2a. Appears they have not done legal action since 2018 though (according to their website?)

 

[Hardwired]

The bill explicitly calls out that firearms that fall under the copies and duplicates clause are excluded if they were registered by 7/20/16.
If the other grandfathering language of legally possessed and registered on 8/1/24.

The Supreme Court has made it clear that ALL language in a law has to have meaning therefore the only way to interpret the overlap is that only those copies and duplicates registered by 7/20/16 are actually excluded from the ban.

You do you for your personal risk tolerance.
However make it clear that my position is also the position taken by Guida who used to be the person in charge of interpretation of all of this shit.

So a lower that someone bought and tossed in the safe 20 years ago (anything pre-2016) and never FA-10 (as was not assembled) is no good? Purchase receipt or supplier confirmation of manufacture date good to enter into portal as 5.56? .22LR? …built out

 

[Dench]

Usually comm2a. Appears they have not done legal action since 2018 though (according to their website?)

Well, thats run by a Jan 6th TDSr. What could go wrong?

 

[pastera]

If I’m not in New Jersey, I’m carrying.

Rip the mattress tags off, fellas.

Concur - everything I'm saying here comes with a bigboy pants disclaimer.

Why do we need to change things? I suppose you can argue for actively overturning this tyranny to enable others access to their 2A rights. Aside from that, I have already secured the means to assert and enjoy my rights. While direct action may be warranted, I feel morally safe simply resigning myself to a proportional response. You ignore my rights, I’ll ignore your illegitimate laws. You show up with the intent to use force in pursuit of tyranny? Force will be used in response, pursuing liberty.

You enjoy your position because thousands of patriots bled and spilled blood for your rights.
Freedom dies when a generation fails to understand that fact and act with the responsibility it inspires.

 

[Junior314]

I am holding off on sending out my combined June & July pro-2A contributions until I see which organization is going to take the lead on fighting the monstrosity.

Once we determine who is the organization that plans on taking the fight to the courts it should be made a sticky at the top with a link to donate.

@drgrant

Just an idea.

 

[pastera]

So a lower that someone bought and tossed in the safe 20 years ago (anything pre-2016) and never FA-10 (as was not assembled) is no good? Purchase receipt or supplier confirmation of manufacture date good to enter into portal as 5.56? .22LR? …built out

By the letter of the bill? No, I don't believe so unless the dealer did an eFA-10 for a zero length multi caliber entry.

 

[headednorth]

Is there a synopsis of this somewhere?

 

[pastera]

Did NY or CT have an FA-10 equivalent before requiring registration? If MA just rolls the FA-10 database into the registry, will you need to “(re)register” what they already have record of you owning? Whether accurate or not? If you don’t register what they have records of you owning, isn’t that just a roadmap of who’s ignoring the law?

They will likely do a cleanup with a script that removes anything that shows up as a transfer to someone else then allow you to get your list using your pin.
From there you will be required to add anything not on the list and petition to have removed things that incorrectly show up (hopefully they offer this as an easy option)

 

[scott-o]

Did NY or CT have an FA-10 equivalent before requiring registration? If MA just rolls the FA-10 database into the registry, will you need to “(re)register” what they already have record of you owning? Whether accurate or not? If you don’t register what they have records of you owning, isn’t that just a roadmap of who’s ignoring the law?

The problem with most of the theories here as well as the written law is that they assume the transaction registration is 100% accurate and reflects reality or what every individual currently holds in a state that it was entered, and accuracy.

That's simply not the case, you could gleen a view of what reality POTENTIALLY is with some queries but that's not necessarily accurate.

1. There are several ways a license holders do have something legally and it not show up in what some here want to refer to as a registry.

2. The online transaction register has not existed since the beginning of time, people fat finger shit all the time.

3. Before the electronic transactions there were serialized paper transactions, many people have used these, many of these were lost or not entered, or not entered correctly.

4. Before that there was a PDF printout, many people have used this, many of these were lost, many of three were not entered or not entered correctly.

5. The laws states all that is legally required is a written letter to the director of the board with certain fields, some strict letters of the law interpreters here ... how come you don't follow this to the letter and enter it online?

6. You are not required to ensure that their records are accurate, but you can if you pay $25 and submit for changes on your own fruition.

Furthermore, unless they either "true up" the data with reality (ie a real GUN REGISTRY) as of the enactment date the effects ( based on your interpretation ) it's just continuing the shit show that it's always been.

 

[pastera]

So does it turn out that “Pre-Healey” is an actual thing, and all those people selling pre-Healey guns at a premium all that time were on to something?

Temporarily - this shitshow is guaranteed to get attention from scotus if Illinois or Maryland doesn't short circuit it first.

 

[Coyote33]

I would even argue that his YouTube broadcasts ... have been more effective overall in getting the word out than what anyone at GOAL has been able to do.

Never heard of him until this. Also, already forgot him. Actually, clicked it and only watched about 4 seconds.

 

[Coyote33]

Just setting up the venue and arranging the moms demand action and CNN crew to show up.

As soon as this happens, the opposing side needs to immediately hold a press conference at the minuteman statue, and drape it with a sheet as they announce the start of the lawsuits.

 

[pastera]

I would go as far as to say that an enbloc could easily be construed as a 'detachable feeding device'.
Possibly even stripper clips if the definition really gets stretched...

Except magazine and enbloc have very clear industry definitions that are highly persuasive in court.
A magazine feeds ammunition into the chamber whereas the clip feeds ammunition into the magazine.

 

[808]

Football season will be here soon.
The "patriot" fans will be mobbing a stadium to watch a sub-par team play game after game.
And many of those fans that are firearm enthusiast will be amongst that crowd.
But sadly, it's tough to fill a few blocks at a rally in Boston denouncing Healey and her radical gun laws. Perhaps the pro 2a lawyers will get this fixed. But that's going to take years.

I'd agree!
We are all in this together. I am disappointed in the turnouts at rallies. So many gun owners can't take the time to show up, yet gun shops are overrun with panic buyers currently. I do what I can and have shown my support at every event. I am a Goal, GOA, and FPC member and donate my quarterly bonus split 3 ways. If we all settle our differences and work together, I believe we can make a difference.

I am especially disappointed with LE not protecting our rights; they only care about themselves. Protect and serve your community. You guys are not the government's slaves. Stand up for something for crying out loud! Enough is enough. This bill will affect all gun shops and good people who did nothing to deserve this punishment and deprived rights.

How many homicides have happened here with an AR? I'd bet if not zero close to it.

 

[silversquirrel]

They will likely do a cleanup with a script that removes anything that shows up as a transfer to someone else then allow you to get your list using your pin.
From there you will be required to add anything not on the list and petition to have removed things that incorrectly show up (hopefully they offer this as an easy option)

What is the deadline for criminals to register their firearms? Can't wait for this wave of shootings to stop now that everyone is registered.

 

[HorizontalHunter]

As soon as this happens, the opposing side needs to immediately hold a press conference at the minuteman statue, and drape it with a sheet as they announce the start of the lawsuits.

I’m sure that the media will cover it thoroughly.

 

[Picton]

They will likely do a cleanup with a script that removes anything that shows up as a transfer to someone else then allow you to get your list using your pin.
From there you will be required to add anything not on the list and petition to have removed things that incorrectly show up (hopefully they offer this as an easy option)

I suspect that's what most people imagine, and it's probably what the bill sponsor intended.

In reality, I strongly suspect they will run out of money and enthusiasm LONG before they get anything this sophisticated set up. I think they are very likely to simply change some of the text on the existing database and then pretend that's their Registry. Since I don't think that will ever make its way into court, that's perfectly adequate to their needs.

Never heard of him until this. Also, already forgot him. Actually, clicked it and only watched about 4 seconds.

This.

I think there is a not-insignificant subset of people (me included) who NEVER bother watching any kind of video posted here, however informative, and would rather read about it instead. I also imagine there are a lot of folks who DO watch those videos who can't imagine people like me exist.

 

[pastera]

Is there a synopsis of this somewhere?

Devil is in the details - summaries may not convey everything

 

[EJFudd]

Never heard of him until this. Also, already forgot him. Actually, clicked it and only watched about 4 seconds.

He is on the radio regularly (multiple stations) with pro-gun shows. He is on YouTube and Rumble multiple times each week. He owns Cape Gun Works. He appears at the MA gun shows. He ran for political office down on the Cape. He has testified before the MA Legislature as well as the Colorado Legislature. He has even taken steps to organize MA gun dealers to fight the state more effectively. You shouldn't forget him. You should maybe listen to him.

 

[pastera]

The problem with most of the theories here as well as the written law is that they assume the transaction registration is 100% accurate and reflects reality or what every individual currently holds in a state that it was entered, and accuracy.

That's simply not the case, you could gleen a view of what reality POTENTIALLY is with some queries but that's not necessarily accurate.

1. There are several ways a license holders do have something legally and it not show up in what some here want to refer to as a registry.

2. The online transaction register has not existed since the beginning of time, people fat finger shit all the time.

3. Before the electronic transactions there were serialized paper transactions, many people have used these, many of these were lost or not entered, or not entered correctly.

4. Before that there was a PDF printout, many people have used this, many of these were lost, many of three were not entered or not entered correctly.

5. The laws states all that is legally required is a written letter to the director of the board with certain fields, some strict letters of the law interpreters here ... how come you don't follow this to the letter and enter it online?

6. You are not required to ensure that their records are accurate, but you can if you pay $25 and submit for changes on your own fruition.

Furthermore, unless they either "true up" the data with reality (ie a real GUN REGISTRY) as of the enactment date the effects ( based on your interpretation ) it's just continuing the shit show that it's always been.

They delay the ramifications of not having firearms registered forn6 months after the new registration portal is announced as complete
Therfore they can use the current system with its bad data as a basis since it is you that goes to jail if they are wrong - all they need to do is give you a path to correct bad info (that path may not be possible but they don't care)

 

[Woodsloafer]

I suspect that's what most people imagine, and it's probably what the bill sponsor intended.

In reality, I strongly suspect they will run out of money and enthusiasm LONG before they get anything this sophisticated set up. I think they are very likely to simply change some of the text on the existing database and then pretend that's their Registry. Since I don't think that will ever make its way into court, that's perfectly adequate to their needs.



This.

I think there is a not-insignificant subset of people (me included) who NEVER bother watching any kind of video posted here, however informative, and would rather read about it instead. I also imagine there are a lot of folks who DO watch those videos who can't imagine people like me exist.

Yeah, I'm not a video watcher either, too much BS and fluff in most. I prefer to read it as well.

 

[Ron Jablonski]

Did NY or CT have an FA-10 equivalent before requiring registration? If MA just rolls the FA-10 database into the registry, will you need to “(re)register” what they already have record of you owning? Whether accurate or not? If you don’t register what they have records of you owning, isn’t that just a roadmap of who’s ignoring the law?

I was wondering the same thing.

 

[pastera]

Question around your interpretation of pre and post under the new language. If the "copies and duplicates" item was owned and "registered" to a valid LTC holder prior to 07/20/16 and that owner then transferred possession/ownership to another valid LTC holder after 07/20/16, is that item grandfathered or is the new, current owner on the hook for owning an "illegal" ASW since they took possession after 07/20/16?

Yes - the firearm simply needed to be listed in the database by 7/20/16

 

[AJK129]

Yes - the firearm simply needed to be listed in the database by 7/20/16

So f*** anyone who got their license after that?

 

[June4th]

Football season will be here soon.
The "patriot" fans will be mobbing a stadium to watch a sub-par team play game after game.
And many of those fans that are firearm enthusiast will be amongst that crowd.
But sadly, it's tough to fill a few blocks at a rally in Boston denouncing Healey and her radical gun laws. Perhaps the pro 2a lawyers will get this fixed. But that's going to take years.

Battle fatigue is what it is. Gun owners rallied in Massachusetts, and attended legislative public hearings, many many times over the years. We have managed to stall, and even change, some of the worst proposed anti-gun bills that Massachusetts legislators have tried.

But the democrats super majority in the Commonwealth means that it costs these asshats no political capital to come at us again and again, even at the face of Bruen. It costs us organizational power, money, and mental fortitude to fight this lopsided battle in the ballot box, court, and the soapbox that we can’t seem to win.

I think most gun owners in the know have settled in a quiet mode of civil disobedience. People have been bending over backwards to stay within the confines of the law, but when the laws change to bend you over to physical impossibility, people will naturally come to the conclusion that in for a penny, in for a pound.

I haven’t bothered to look at the verbiage on registration. Just not interested at all at this point. Really? Registration? Guess we’ll find out how ‘law abiding’ Massachusetts gun owners are, soon enough.

 

[Coyote33]

I’m sure that the media will cover it thoroughly.

View attachment 899083

This kind of pessimism does not help.

Maybe they need to bring in some famous people. Maybe stage it as a "gun control rally" (but not say the anti gun control part), With social media, this can still be a winning way to follow up and move forward. People need to come up with new solutions and new ideas, as the old methods just are not working.