When they leaked all the transaction data I found out that I have guns traced to me that I don't own, as well as guns I've eFA10-ed not being in the system at all. It's a total mess of a system.
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MA Gun Grab 2024: H.4885 - Passed legislature, headed to the governor
- Thread starter GOAL
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pastera
NES Member
If their intent was to only allow for exclusion in buildings then they would have approved the amendment - their actions show they absolutely intend to allow towns to prohibit possession on wide swaths of public property.
Can’t tax people exercising their 1st amendment rights, shouldn’t be able to tax the 2nd.
Like poll taxes.
And I had no guns at all!
Rocky Mosasaurus
NES Member
It’s the year 2031; your AI sidekick carries your pewpews as you travel from gun-free zone to gun-free zone. Lawmakers try to pass legislature to ban sidekicks but cannot quantify all the features that designate AI sidekicks as such…except from the help of more AI. This brings a massive legal battle regarding bots passing laws. Cyborg Healey rules it constitutional (it has been ruling for several years, and will continue indefinitely) and the law passes.
Doctor: Do you have any firearms in your home?
NES: Well, doc. You see, as I plan for the apocalypse, I needed a defensive perimeter. Each defensive post requires at least one AR stashed but, for operational security, I do not want want the government agents to know about it. They speak to me through my teeth and I'm thinking that they are onto me. I'm also considering a caliber sufficient for anti-material, any thoughts?
Doctor: Ok, I'm not sure what that means. I'll put down 'yes'
NES: Well, technically, I have no firearms. Ghost guns. They both exist and, yet, do not exist ... if you know what I'm saying. Would you like to know more? I can hook you up ...
Doctor: It's a simple yes or no question.
NES: When you say 'in your home', would that include stuff I've hidden at random cached locations around the neighborhood?
Doctor: I think it would.
NES: Yes ... I mean, no. Of course not. Nevermind. It's none of your business.
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Meanwhile not only will criminals continue carrying wherever they want but the state will have them out without bail in minutes if caught.
silversquirrel
NES Member
This is the most frustrating part of all this crap. NOTHING in this jibber jabber affects crime.
CrackPot
NES Member
Copy or duplicate is only a thing for enumerated weapons like the AK15s and AR47s (humor if your meter is impaired). The pc carbine is NOT an enumerated weapon so there is nothing to be a copy or duplicate of.
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CrackPot
NES Member
mothybee
NES Member
They are already there, lot on boards.
mikeboston
NES Member
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Just trying to understand amendment 69 pass with grandfathering pre 2016 as not being copies of duplicate but 11.1 passed as well which says grandfathering any weapon lawfully possessed prior to the passage of this act? Is this in reference to non copies or duplicates?
The piece of text in the 11.1 amendment which is from the 2016 notice has: … that if a weapon, as manufactured or originally assembled, is an assault weapon, it shall remain an assault weapon even if it is altered by the seller, unless it has been rendered permanently inoperable or otherwise rendered permanently unable to be designated as a semiautomatic assault weapon;
- it’s intended as a ban on compliance work, but has the second part of ‘permanently unable’ to be designated and AW been elaborated anywhere?
Does it mean some compliance type work is valid if it goes far enough? Like gas system removal? Or for ex: in a non modular rifle with a PG and muzzle threads, if the threads are machined off it can never have enough features to be an AW?
- it’s intended as a ban on compliance work, but has the second part of ‘permanently unable’ to be designated and AW been elaborated anywhere?
Does it mean some compliance type work is valid if it goes far enough? Like gas system removal? Or for ex: in a non modular rifle with a PG and muzzle threads, if the threads are machined off it can never have enough features to be an AW?
So I abandoned the whole clusterfcuk last night and came this morning to see when the dust settled where we are at.
I see Amendmend #11 was amended do 11.1 and adopted.
WTF I just read? As it stands anything that was legal after 2016 is now illegal. That is not going to fly in the final bill methinks. Still early to tell, but they already managed to make something very confusing even more so. This takes... talent. A special kind of talent.
I still think for the sake of resilience to litigation they will grandfather everything that was legal up to the date when the new bill becomes the law- whenever that is.
I see Amendmend #11 was amended do 11.1 and adopted.
WTF I just read? As it stands anything that was legal after 2016 is now illegal. That is not going to fly in the final bill methinks. Still early to tell, but they already managed to make something very confusing even more so. This takes... talent. A special kind of talent.
I still think for the sake of resilience to litigation they will grandfather everything that was legal up to the date when the new bill becomes the law- whenever that is.
CrackPot
NES Member
Explaining AGAIN. Amendment 11 passed AS AMEMDED. They amended 11 to use the language of 11.1. So the first vote was to amend 11 with 11.1 language. That vote passed. Then they voted to amend the entire bill with the new language in amendment 11. Therefore amendment 11 passed AS AMENDED. The relevant language is in 11.1.
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Amputee Marksman
NES Member
These are the models with the Magpul killy evil stocks
19122 - Threaded Barrel, 6 Position Stock, 17 round magazine
19124 - Threaded Barrel, 6 Position Stock, 10 round magazine - I have seen people at the range with this model who claim to have bought it in MA. I personally have seen one of these for sale in a LGS and the proprietor claimed it was legal.
19126 - No Threaded Barrel, Fixed Stock, 10 round magazine - This is what has been available in MA
There are several more models that are MA compliant that have more traditional looking fixed stocks.
Things like this are why it's pointless for people to get spun up over details of the bill. It's not done yet.
CrackPot
NES Member
Amendment 11.1 only protects things from pre 2016 from being copies or duplicates of enumerated weapons. So the feature test still applies AND the new language about no compliance work applies.
So all your pre 2016 while not copies or duplicates, if they had any compliance work done they are now ILLEGAL.
The grandfathering essentially grandfathered nothing.
556USER
NES Member
I used to live in his district. You don't get re-elected over and over as a Republican in Mass without essentially being with the other side. He's not the worst but this vote is no surprise. If he had any real conservative principles that he sticks with he'd have been voted out long ago. Just the hard reality of Mass politics. If you ever get someone elected in eastern Mass who is a real conservative they will be vilified and voted out after one term. Not making excuses for him at all, he is a POLITICIAN who likes his job, he knows what that 65% wants and it ain't what gun owners want.
CrackPot
NES Member
Threaded barrel is fine if it has no other evil feature. One feature is allowed. On an AR it’s the pistol grip. On a FUDD stock PCC it can be the threaded barrel. Just don’t get threaded barrel and pistol grip or threaded barrel and adjustable stock.
mothybee
NES Member
That might be a good thing, remember, now your the criminal.
Can someone clarify what is supposed to happen with these now banned items, AR etc? Is there a requirement to destroy or turn them in? The wording states that there is no grandfathering so even if you purchased before the AG ban you are now out of compliance unless you have a pre-94 lower, I don’t see how this can be legal. I understand everyone is heated and wants to point fingers, but I just want to know what this means while we await any potential legal action against it.
I think this “grandfathering” is more narrow than it reads. Pre-2016 enumerated weapons can’t be copies or duplicates, but that doesn’t exempt them from “once an AW always one”. So, anything that needed a pinned stock or brake after it left the manufacturer in the last 30 years (since 1994) would be illegal and not covered?
Edit: Your follow up reply while I was typing comes to the same conclusion.
silversquirrel
NES Member
Mass. Senate approves gun bill, sets up talks with House
Sam DrysdaleStatehouse News Service
BOSTON ― The Senate on Thursday night approved a sweeping overhaul of state firearms laws, setting up talks with the House that could lead to a major new law later this spring or summer.
The Senate bill seeks to rein in untraceable ghost guns, bans carrying firearms in government administrative buildings, gives firearm licensing authorities access to some of an applicant's mental health hospitalization history, and expands the list of people who can petition the court to take away someone's guns if they are deemed dangerous. It passed the Senate on a 37-3 vote shortly after 8 p.m.
"Although proud that Massachusetts has one of the lowest rates of gun violence in the nation, the members of this body are concerned by every incident of gun violence, every firearm suicide, and every accidental gun injury that occurs in the commonwealth," said Sen. Cindy Creem of Newton, the main author of the bill.
The package filed by Majority Leader Creem hit the Senate floor at 12:30 p.m. Thursday and Minority Leader Bruce Tarr wasted no time pointing out some of the issues that Republicans see with the bill, including that it did not get its own public hearing.
Creem's proposal represents the Senate's long-anticipated response to the bill that cleared the House last fall.
Tarr argued that lawmakers were headed down "a very dangerous path" by not holding a public hearing on the Creem proposal, which was assembled following many private meetings. Creem said the Joint Committee on Public Safety and Homeland Security held a hearing on other gun bills last year, giving people interested in the topic an opportunity to be heard.
Creem said the principles underlying the bill were "concern for the safety of our residents, respect for the Second Amendment, and a focus on the root cause of gun crime and gun accidents, and a commitment to equity underlies each of the policies included in this comprehensive bill."
She added that her proposal is supported by both gun safety advocates and law enforcement.
The Massachusetts' arm of the National Rifle Association called the bill "punitive" and didn't support it or any of the 79 amendments senators filed, claiming the bill was "so convoluted that there is no way it can be fixed with amendments."
Creem said she consulted with experts "who specialize in Second Amendment-related issues, including the attorney general's office," and was confident that the bill meets constitutional muster.
The Senate bill targets ghost guns -- untraceable firearms that can be bought online in parts and assembled at home -- by requiring the serialization of gun frames and receivers and classifying those individual parts as firearms, and explicitly prohibiting the use of 3D printers to manufacture or assemble firearms without a license.
The bill would also codify the state's ban on assault weapons, prohibit devices that convert semi-automatic firearms into fully automatic weapons, ensure gun dealers are inspected annually, and allow health care professionals to ask a court to temporarily remove someone's firearms if they are deemed dangerous.
Tarr highlighted an amendment (#63 filed by Sen. Patrick O'Connor of Weymouth and supported by the entire minority caucus) that he said included the topics that Republicans "think can be the subject of near unanimous, if not unanimous, consensus in this chamber." He said the Republican caucus is also concerned with ghost guns, Glock switches, data collection, and more.
"And while we may come to this discussion with some variations on how we would achieve those common goals, the fact remains that we share a similar commitment. And I want to dispel any notion that might be out there that we do not share that commitment," Tarr said. "It's our belief that if we move forward with that package, that we would have the best chance of achieving success on a number of the subjects that I just made reference to."
O'Connor, a Republican, made a point about needing to create a bill that is legally defensible, should Second Amendment rights' groups challenge the legislation in court.
After his amendment was rejected, O'Connor voted against the bill alongside Republican Sens. Peter Durant and Ryan Fattman. Tarr was the only Republican who voted in favor of the bill.
The minority leader praised several amendments to the bill, which he said took it in the right direction.
Under a Sen. John Velis of Westfield amendment, repeat offenders of crimes related to gun violence would be detained until their trial if they violated conditions of release from arrest.
"In my district, in October of this year, in Holyoke, three individuals started a gunfight, a firefight in broad daylight at high noon, and a stray bullet hit a completely innocent pregnant woman on a bus driving by. The woman was rushed to the hospital, where her newborn baby was delivered, but tragically did not survive," Velis said. "If this tragedy was not horrific enough, one of these individuals involved in this firefight had been arrested a week prior -- a week prior -- on unrelated firearms charges, and had been let out on bail to walk the streets of Holyoke."
Velis said the amendment would "finally create consequences" for those charged with unlawful violence, and would help protect community members who fear gun violence. He added that this violence is more likely to affect minority-majority communities, and stopping the "revolving door for repeat gun offenders" would help keep these neighborhoods safe.
Several senators praised the amendment, and alluded to behind-closed-doors debate around it. Velis said taking anyone's liberty away was "not done lightly," but was meant to keep innocent people safe.
"We need to focus on bad actors and people who are breaking the law and threatening public safety," Tarr said. "And we need to balance that with the impact we are having on law abiding gun owners, and we needed to make sure that we were focusing on the real source of the problem, not the person that gets a license, not the person that gets background check, not the person that registers their firearm, not the person that stores their firearm correctly."
Senators also adopted a Fattman amendment to create a crime punishable by five years in prison for firing a gun at a police officer, as well as an amendment to clarify that certain guns legally bought prior to 2016 are "legacy" weapons, and can still be legally held, though the new bill would make new purchases illegal.
Several other amendments had to do with improving firearm tracing, data collection around gun violence, and out-of-state crime gun trafficking reporting.
Creem and House Judiciary Committee Chair Rep. Michael Day are likely to lead private House-Senate talks over a possible compromise bill drawing some aspects of the House bill and others from the Senate legislation. The six lawmakers assigned to a potential conference committee would likely have to finish their work before July 31, when formal business is slated to end until 2025.
As senators were debating the bill, federal prosecutors in Boston announced that a Boston man pleaded guilty Thursday to illegally selling a dozen machine gun conversion devices. The U.S. attorney's office said Elijah Navarro, 24, sold the first two machine gun conversion devices to an individual for $400 and later sold 10 more devices for an additional $1,300.
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CrackPot
NES Member
ALL YOUR RILFES ARE ILLEGAL
All subject to change when they reconcile with the house, but the current grandfathering language essentially grandfathers nothing.
True preban is still there. Pre 13-sep-1994 weapons can be as evil as you like.
All post 7/20/16 weapons need to be factory compliant with the new AWB and all cools guns are copies or duplicates and therefore illegal. No ARs. No AKs, etc. NO COMPLIANCE WORK so good luck finding a SKU from the manufacturer that works. I found a NJ compliant tavor x95 that would work. There are some Ruger PCCs that are factory compliant. After that I can’t find much for semi auto rifles.
The new grandfathering covers 1994-2016 weapons. The problem is that all it does is say they are not copies or duplicates. So your AR is not a copy or duplicate and automatically banned. The problem is that the no compliance work clause is still in effect. So all those cool pre Healey guns you have that had their stocks fixed or a muzzle break installed and pinned and welded ARE NOW ILLEGAL.
The new grandfathering language essentially grandfathers NOTHING.
Let that sink in. I do not believe they understand what they did because they have proven themselves to be rather stupid about guns and the laws. But they have now passed a new AWB that makes 99% of existing semi auto rifles illegal with a vineer of grandfathering that you might naively think does something. It does nothing.
All subject to change when they reconcile with the house, but the current grandfathering language essentially grandfathers nothing.
True preban is still there. Pre 13-sep-1994 weapons can be as evil as you like.
All post 7/20/16 weapons need to be factory compliant with the new AWB and all cools guns are copies or duplicates and therefore illegal. No ARs. No AKs, etc. NO COMPLIANCE WORK so good luck finding a SKU from the manufacturer that works. I found a NJ compliant tavor x95 that would work. There are some Ruger PCCs that are factory compliant. After that I can’t find much for semi auto rifles.
The new grandfathering covers 1994-2016 weapons. The problem is that all it does is say they are not copies or duplicates. So your AR is not a copy or duplicate and automatically banned. The problem is that the no compliance work clause is still in effect. So all those cool pre Healey guns you have that had their stocks fixed or a muzzle break installed and pinned and welded ARE NOW ILLEGAL.
The new grandfathering language essentially grandfathers NOTHING.
Let that sink in. I do not believe they understand what they did because they have proven themselves to be rather stupid about guns and the laws. But they have now passed a new AWB that makes 99% of existing semi auto rifles illegal with a vineer of grandfathering that you might naively think does something. It does nothing.
Are you 5?
Really? What do you think? It means your shit will be illegal (at least on the ground unless a a court issues an injunction or similar) and you are felon just like the rest of us. You can then decide to grow a set and keep your stuff, sell it out of state or surrender it for destruction assuming you did that before the enactment date of the law. If they do an emergency deal it will go in immediately but that's not typical. You have to wear big kid pants and make a decision. If any of this garbage keeps you awake at night you need to just sell all your shit to somebody else it will make you sleep easier.
MA gun laws = not great for caillous/worriers.
CrackPot
NES Member
Yes. I wrote a big bolded version so people understand that the grandfathering is useless
556USER
NES Member
Correct. Just say NO. No editorializing when lying.
When the time for re-election comes, we should go all out to support any nut job running against every R that voted for this. I mean go door to door for them, hold signs, donate money and tell the R what a piece of sh*t they are. Take away their public trough livelihood and make them get real jobs. C*nts.
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