MA Gun Grab 2024: H.4885 - Passed legislature, headed to the governor

[MFSP101]

The senate bill was passed as an amendment to the house bill, so the number both chambers are using going forward from here reverts to the house number.

H.4139. Goal actually explains this.

 

[Toast]

Indeed. That doesn’t change the fact that the GOAL link doesn’t apply to anything in current law, the Senate bill, or any of its amendments. It’s left over from the original House bill.

It would be really helpful to those of us who want to read the actual text to have references in addition to the summary.

I assume you mean to have whatever summary someone is creating to reference what part the bill or amendments they're talking about, preferably by line. You clearly have access to the actual text.

 

[milktree]

I assume you mean to have whatever summary someone is creating to reference what part the bill or amendments they're talking about, preferably by line. You clearly have access to the actual text.

I have access to the same text GOAL does, I assume.

And if not, a link to whatever source material they’re using would be helpful.

In this case it’s confusing because it’s in the thread about the senate bill, but the summary is entirely about the house Bill from two+ months ago. The senate bill would replace the house bill entirely.

 

[Rat187]

It's not "basically anyone", it's limited to the same people as before, with the addition of a bunch of heath care people WHO HAVE TREATED YOU WITHIN SIX MONTHS

It's line 176, under the definition of "petitioner".

If GOAL or whoever sent me this got it wrong.... It would be helpful if someone could provide a link so I can understand what the eff is going on...RE: Red Flag particulars.

 

[pinefd]

I completely get that though.
Unless you're scouring emails, going to gun clubs weekly, or doing your own research, it's VERY difficult to know what's going on with these new bills.

People are busy working and tending to their own lives. The way our government is getting these things through is by taking advantage of this very mechanism. Every new bill should be posted in multiple newspapers and journals for months to allow time for it to disseminate through to all constituents before it even gets to the floor for voting. There needs to be a mechanism for busy working people to have their voices heard and votes counted without having to take time off of work. Our democracy is a farse right now. "let's pass bills secretly that nobody can contest because we're sitting here feeding off the taxpayers dollars while they work and we can go completely unchecked". That should be illegal.

The other side of that coin is, given how liberal and gun-fearing the majority of MA residents are, I wouldn't be surprised to see 100,000 anti-2A people showing up outside the capital demanding the passage of even tougher gun laws!




Frank

 

[Harry Christopher]

With a Leftist SCOTUS the Constitution will end.

One could be forgiven for arriving at the conclusion that the recent Supreme Court decision ruling against the legality of the State of Texas' attempt to defend the sovereignty of its own border is essentially an indication that the present direction of the Court does not necessarily indicate a strong institutional belief in the validity of the Constitution as a bedrock foundation of the American legal system as a whole.

When the legal challenges to the recent attempt of the Republic to disenfranchise lawful gun owners is finally cast upon the court's doorstep, I am beginning to think that we as a community may very well discover that our strongly held beliefs that the Constitution really is relevant to today's modern society may be considered a minority opinion and one that can easily be ignored by the legal system as a whole.

The question at that juncture in time will be how each individual decides to respond to that situation based upon their own beliefs and the needs of their families. In the meantime, we can continue supporting the organizations that are fighting within the system to defend our civil rights and continue maintaining our proficiency with our small arms of choice.

When all is said and done, we are on our own which ironically is how this country was founded in the first place.

 

[MFSP101]

If GOAL or whoever sent me this got it wrong.... It would be helpful if someone could provide a link so I can understand what the eff is going on...RE: Red Flag particulars.

Again. Goal is working on laying this out so we can somewhat understand what the hell is happening. No body really knows what is happening because it’s not law yet. Yes I’m sh!tt!ng my pants over this. But Im waiting for some more informative information. Then we can proceed to the next step.
Yes I know the next step is bend over. But just relax and we can move on.

 

[VTski4x4]

Funny morning. HSC was empty - no one training. The Mill was mobbed - all the panic buying. People buying shit, but no one training with said shit. SAD!

 

[HARRYM]

If GOAL or whoever sent me this got it wrong.... It would be helpful if someone could provide a link so I can understand what the eff is going on...RE: Red Flag particulars.

GOAL will want to review carefully before speaking.

 

[vicorjh]

HSC was empty - no one training.

Tomorrow is the day (breakfast).

 

[Mtn_Guy]

. ..no one training.

Who needs training?

 

[LakeTrout]

I don’t think there’s anything that legislators could do to MA gun owners that could cause MA gun owners to do anything about it. They know this too. You’ll own no auto loading firearms in MA in the next decade. They won’t be grandfathered. They’ll be turned in. This is will be a good start but it doesn’t go far enough. They’ve conditioned you to comply, and you will. Cause real life isn’t the inner net. Ya need ya dunks and the kids gotta get to soccer practice. Turn em in.

 

[milktree]

If GOAL or whoever sent me this got it wrong.... It would be helpful if someone could provide a link so I can understand what the eff is going on...RE: Red Flag particulars.

House bill H.4420 renamed to ... 4139? 4607? Whatever, was "amended" with Senate bill S.2572.

S.2572's amendment was to erase all of the house bill and replace it with S.2572's text.

That text can be found here:

https://malegislature.gov/Bills/193/S2572.pdf

It has line numbers and stuff.

S.2572 passed with a ton if amendments, available here:

Amendment S.2572

malegislature.gov

the GOAL summary of Red-flag laws here:

https://www.goal.org/resources/HD4607RedFlagSummary.pdf

Doesn't reflect what's in the Senate bill, it's what was in the old house bill. Except it doesn't, because even the House bill has a clause for "within the last six months" for healthcare providers.

Here's the House bill:

https://malegislature.gov/Bills/193/HD4607.pdf

The relevant bits are in lines 330 to 339.


So, depending on which bits of the house and senate bill survive through to the final bill that hits the governor's desk, that will affect what bits we have to lives with.

Note that in BOTH bills there's a requirement for the health care provider to have provided service within six months. Only the house bill has the nonsense about school administrators and your employer.

 

[bigred460]

I don’t think there’s anything that legislators could do to MA gun owners that could cause MA gun owners to do anything about it. They know this too. You’ll own no auto loading firearms in MA in the next decade. They won’t be grandfathered. They’ll be turned in. This is will be a good start but it doesn’t go far enough. They’ve conditioned you to comply, and you will. Cause real life isn’t the inner net. Ya need ya dunks and the kids gotta get to soccer practice. Turn em in.

The next step is the courts, I'm standing by with my checkbook to help support that effort.

 

[Toast]

One could be forgiven for arriving at the conclusion that the recent Supreme Court decision ruling against the legality of the State of Texas' attempt to defend the sovereignty of its own border is essentially an indication that the present direction of the Court does not necessarily indicate a strong institutional belief in the validity of the Constitution as a bedrock foundation of the American legal system as a whole.

FWIW, that's not what the Supreme Court ruled. The ruling was that the Feds didn't have to stop cutting Texas' wire. That's it. Didn't say Texas couldn't replace it, didn't say Texas had to give them access to cut it, didn't obligate nor prohibit Texas on anything.

 

[Coyote33]

Personally I can’t wait to be part of the criminal class I hear the Tax savings are phenomenal.

I saw somewhere that they are going to give $1000 a month to illegal immigrants, but can't find it at the moment.

Otherwise, there's this:

View: https://www.instagram.com/reel/C20mNGEpaUA/

 

[LakeTrout]

The next step is the courts, I'm standing by with my checkbook to help support that effort

MA gun owners have been doing that for as long as I’ve been aware. It’s gotten worse decade after decade. Not better. That’s not going to work.

 

[Tallahassee]

Stop compromising.

 

[CMEBoston]

I saw somewhere that they are going to give $1000 a month to illegal immigrants, but can't find it at the moment.

Otherwise, there's this:

View: https://www.instagram.com/reel/C20mNGEpaUA/

I hate being at the mercy of liberal imbeciles

But I love watching the inner city’s population turn on them

 

[FalArAk]

The next step is the courts, I'm standing by with my checkbook to help support that effort.

Worked great so far!

 

[Harry Christopher]

FWIW, that's not what the Supreme Court ruled. The ruling was that the Feds didn't have to stop cutting Texas' wire. That's it. Didn't say Texas couldn't replace it, didn't say Texas had to give them access to cut it, didn't obligate nor prohibit Texas on anything.

So...... Texas can keep putting up wire to defend their border and the Federal Government can keep cutting that wire to remove the state's attempt at defending that border and that certainly seems to me to be the court ruling invalidating in actuality if not in verbiage the right of Texas to defend itself.

If the Feds can remove the means of defense of the border, then I would be inclined to think that they are essentially over-riding the right of the state to engage in that defense in the first place.

 

[Toast]

So...... Texas can keep putting up wire to defend their border and the Federal Government can keep cutting that wire to remove the state's attempt at defending that border and that certainly seems to me to be the court ruling invalidating in actuality if not in verbiage the right of Texas to defend itself.

If the Feds can remove the means of defense of the border, then I would be inclined to think that they are essentially over-riding the right of the state to engage in that defense in the first place.

But what they can't do is cross state land to do so, which Texas (after the ruling) is now prohibiting them from doing.

 

[Coyote33]

now if a group like FPC or GOA went after taxes on firearms and ammo because rights can't be taxed

First they need to convince people the 2A is a right.

 

[chris_1001]

looking for something a tad more useful for guidance.
Essentially a plain language breakdown.

As are the rest of us. We don’t have all the info yet and goal will probably have something soon.

Until then. I stick by my

Gunz bad, nun fur u.

 

[VTski4x4]

I don’t think there’s anything that legislators could do to MA gun owners that could cause MA gun owners to do anything about it. They know this too. You’ll own no auto loading firearms in MA in the next decade. They won’t be grandfathered. They’ll be turned in. This is will be a good start but it doesn’t go far enough. They’ve conditioned you to comply, and you will. Cause real life isn’t the inner net. Ya need ya dunks and the kids gotta get to soccer practice. Turn em in.

Generally speaking, people are going to wait for a law to actually be passed. Then they will see how quickly/slowly the courts respond, and what they say. If PD starts showing up at clubs arresting people while this is going thru the courts, then you'll see how people really feel. No one is going to climb a clock tower before a law is even passed.

 

[Goliathan]

As are the rest of us. We don’t have all the info yet and goal will probably have something soon.

Until then. I stick by my

Gunz bad, nun fur u.

GOAL said back in post #2,207 that they're working on a new breakdown after the vote.

These things are labor intensive in the extreme. The way that laws in MA are written it's a bunch of self-referential, confusing, contradictory legalese. "Replace the word x line y with such and such as it appears in z" and amendment number whatever that was just adopted is now referencing language that doesn't exist anymore...

All of that nonsense has to be red-lined, worked in, and THEN it has to be understood and the legal implications and ramifications parsed out.

 

[chris_1001]

GOAL said back in post #2,207 that they're working on a new breakdown after the vote.

These things are labor intensive in the extreme. The way that laws in MA are written it's a bunch of self-referential, confusing, contradictory legalese. "Replace the word x line y with such and such as it appears in z" and amendment number whatever that was just adopted is now referencing language that doesn't exist anymore...

All of that nonsense has to be red-lined, worked in, and THEN it has to be understood and the legal implications and ramifications parsed out.

Right. This is why I said what I said.

 

[richc]

I saw somewhere that they are going to give $1000 a month to illegal immigrants, but can't find it at the moment.

Otherwise, there's this:

View: https://www.instagram.com/reel/C20mNGEpaUA/

I saw that poor guy on the news. A working stiff, homeless, and now he can't get a shower or hot cup of coffee at the community center that he and our tax dollars built.

A friend works in that area and is very friendly with a lot of locals. Community outreach is part of his job. These are his words:

"Things are coming to a head

We are all Americans. Our current government treats foreigners better than its citizens"

When was the last time we saw a group of predominantly white guys show this much empathy for a homeless black man? We all now have a common enemy and me thinks it will bridge some gaps.

The enemy of my enemy is my friend...

 

[Kurtz]

Except that very likely more than half of the gun owners haven't called their reps and senators. Havent given money to GOAL and the most important of all......did NOT vote.

How is giving money to GOAL going to alter the thoughts of leftist lawmakers? Even in the House version they voted it right in even though 100% of the cops were against it. I wonder how many of Tarrs supporters called him

 

[Coyote33]

Yup, could have spent a zillion dollars here fighting these bills, held a hundred rallies with thousands of people, and they still would have passed them. The only hope is the court system/SCOTUS after their passage and that is where the money needs to be donated/spent, IMO. The Senate didn't even allow any public hearings/discussions, that's how tainted the system is here as far as gun rights.

This is all spot on, and the bolded part is the most egregious.

Or for somebody to leak the list of LTC owners so they can pick through the list.

I thought they already did that not long ago.