MA Gun Grab 2024: H.4885 - Passed legislature, headed to the governor

[whatluck]

Yup, that's why I bought 60 acres of it, not more guns (got plenty).

 

[alx]

Except amendment 11 was further amended to 11.1 which reads prior to 7/2016.

You know this will not stand as there will be plenty newly banned long guns that were not banned after 2016. The amended 11.1 will be amended again or the whole thing will go down in flames.

 

[btnh6668]

You know this will not stand as there will be plenty newly banned long guns that were not banned after 2016. The amended 11.1 will be amended again or the whole thing will go down in flames.

Don't be so sure

 

[inerlogic]

Why 10 rounds? Why not 11? Or 6? Because they know better than we do.

If you try to logic this you'll end up in a knot.

now that they have 10, 6 will be next...

 

[scott-o]

now that they have 10, 6 will be next...

2 blasts
- Joe Biden

 

[babygorilla]

Generally speaking, people are going to wait for a law to actually be passed. Then they will see how quickly/slowly the courts respond, and what they say. If PD starts showing up at clubs arresting people while this is going thru the courts, then you'll see how people really feel. No one is going to climb a clock tower before a law is even passed.

Lets hope that happens. Quick way to get standing in a court case.

 

[pastera]

Except amendment 11 was further amended to 11.1 which reads prior to 7/2016.

11 and 11.1 have the same adopted text that doesn't include 7/2016

Amendment S.2572

malegislature.gov

 

[pupchow]

Common sense gun laws, in action:

 

[inerlogic]

You have it legally in the state now therefore it would be covered by amendment 11 (assuming this makes it past the joint committee)

"lawfully possessed" our post '94 ARs aren't "lawfully" possessed according to Maura

 

[Rob Boudrie]

11 and 11.1 have the same adopted text that doesn't include 7/2016

Amendment S.2572

malegislature.gov

The wording is "prior to passage of this act", and does not contain any sale/transfer restriction.

 

[scott-o]

They give you a free glock switch when they equip you with your ankle monitor at the state, I've heard.

Gotta love the SPD publically letting the perp and crew know they got snitched on, not the brightest move to inspire confidence for reporting crime in the inner city.

 

[ddeck]

Common sense gun laws, in action:

View attachment 847101

Obviously he didn't spend time in honors math. He had 17 in the drum mag and 32 in the extended magazine. Why not just put 49 in the 50 rd drum mag? Did he think he wouldn't have enough room? I would have like to see the trail mix of ammo types to see if they all matched. The two shown look to be different (nickel and then brass cases)

 

[pastera]

"lawfully possessed" our post '94 ARs aren't "lawfully" possessed according to Maura

Like I said previously - Amendment 11 was added since they know that not grandfathering those guns that have been perfectly legal would open them up to even the scrutiny of the 1st circus' ire.
They are already on very shaky ground with banning common firearms by way of cosmetic features - going back and making people felons for keeping the same arms that they have legally possessed within the state for 30 years would be a hard sell with the dearth of statistical evidence that the enumerated weapons are distinctively and uniquely more dangerous than other weapons of same or similar caliber.

 

[Mesatchornug]

Obviously he didn't spend time in honors math. He had 17 in the drum mag and 32 in the extended magazine. Why not just put 49 in the 50 rd drum mag? Did he think he wouldn't have enough room? I would have like to see the trail mix of ammo types to see if they all matched. The two shown look to be different (nickel and then brass cases)

you don't think he shot most of the drum mag (with the stick as spare) before getting caught?

 

[VTski4x4]

Like I said previously - Amendment 11 was added since they know that not grandfathering those guns that have been perfectly legal would open them up to even the scrutiny of the 1st circus' ire.
They are already on very shaky ground with banning common firearms by way of cosmetic features - going back and making people felons for keeping the same arms that they have legally possessed within the state for 30 years would be a hard sell with the dearth of statistical evidence that the enumerated weapons are distinctively and uniquely more dangerous than other weapons of same or similar caliber.

Read Crackpots post in bold. 11.1 is the adopted and amended text of 11. What 11 said doesn't matter, it was changed to 11.1. That's what you need to concern yourself with.

 

[pastera]

187 “Rapid-fire trigger activator”, any: (i) manual, power-driven or electronic device that is
188 designed and functions to increase the rate of fire of a semiautomatic firearm, rifle or shotgun
189 when the device is attached to the weapon; (ii) part of a semiautomatic firearm, rifle shotgun or
190 combination of parts that is designed and functions to increase the rate of fire of a semiautomatic
191 firearm, rifle or shotgun by eliminating the need for the operator of the weapon to make a
192 separate movement for each individual function of the trigger; or (iii) other device, part or
193 combination of parts that is designed and functions to substantially increase the rate of fire of a
194 semiautomatic firearm, rifle or shotgun above the standard rate of fire for semiautomatic
195 weapons that are not equipped with that device, part or combination of parts.

Since there is no actual definition for "rate of fire" AND one cannot define one that includes operator ability since one can easily argue that training objectively increases a person's ability to effectively fire faster AND the state REQUIRES training to possess a license that operator ability cannot be considered or else the state would require you to take training where the knowledge is effectively outlawed.

That leaves us the ordinary understandings: Rate of fire - Wikipedia
Therefore one would not be able to run a lower weight buffer or springs that might increase cyclic rate by slightly increasing bolt or slide speed but could use a trigger modifier as long as each round fired requires a separate movement of the trigger.

 

[pastera]

Read Crackpots post in bold. 11.1 is the adopted and amended text of 11. What 11 said doesn't matter, it was changed to 11.1. That's what you need to concern yourself with.

If you play games with the links you can find Creem's original text
But the basic link to the amendment has the more basic text

Ms. Creem and Messrs. Tarr and Montigny move that the amendment be amended by striking out the text thereof and inserting in place thereof the following:-

in section 3, by striking out, in lines 115 to 117, inclusive, the words “and provided further, that if a weapon, as manufactured or originally assembled, is an assault weapon, it shall remain an assault weapon even if it is altered by the seller” and inserting in place thereof the following words:- “provided further, that a weapon shall not be considered a copy or duplicate if the weapon was owned and registered prior to July 20, 2016; provided further, that if a weapon, as manufactured or originally assembled, is an assault weapon, it shall remain an assault weapon even if it is altered by the seller, unless it has been rendered permanently inoperable or otherwise rendered permanently unable to be designated as a semiautomatic assault weapon; and provided further, that the previous proviso shall not apply to copies and duplicates of a weapon identified in said subclauses (a) to (i), inclusive, of said clause (i) that were sold, owned and registered prior to July 20, 2016”.

Now critically read the text of this amendment - the first statement excludes from "copy or duplicate" anything owned and registered prior to 07/2016.
Then the last statement says that the previous exemption doesn't apply to "copies and duplicates" owned and registered prior to 07/2016

So the text actually does nothing for enumerated weapons which would become a taking and ex post facto law imposing felony punishments for possession of firearms in objectively common use for lawful purposes both within Massachusetts and the US in its entirety.

 

[Rocky Mosasaurus]

“How shall we be getting bent over today, gents?” - MA Law-Abiding Gun Owners

 

[TLB]

What righteous person would support grandfathering a right guaranteed in the Constitution and DENYING the same right to others after some arbitrary date? All the wrangling and speculation about this concept makes me sick. The argument should only be focused on the freedom of all citizens past, present and FUTURE. If grandfathering is allowed many of those who are given special status will certainly not fight as hard for the rights of others. Grandfathering only serves to divide. The fight should be for all. No grandfathering and NO turning in anything.

Absolutely. Grandfathering is BS.

 

[not new guy]

The other problem with grandfathering is that it potentially takes an argument off the table for when this all ends up in court.

 

[VTski4x4]

As FPC so eloquently states: "Stack up or f*** Off"

 

[not new guy]

I’d like to see GOAL take a more aggressive stance. Something along the lines of “f*** you. No.” They’re not winning these party line types over with logic and reason so we might be better off instigating them into making rage-induced oversteps that get swatted in the courts.

Thinking more about this, a highly belligerent incarnation of GOAL could kill it with fundraising, and not just from within MA. Why not then use their resources to grab headlines and drum up support ($$$) from more MA gun owners as well as from gun owners across the country? They should be painting MA gun owners as modern patriots being crushed by tyrants. They should be telling the legislature to f*** off loudly enough that it makes national news. They should be openly mocking the legislators for their pathetic understanding of guns. They should be selling catchy 2A shwag to buyers across the country.

Lobbying amounts to begging for scraps in MA, and even then it's only when the legislature is feeling generous, or when they believe it to be in their own interest (i.e. avoiding future legal challenges). We need to put up a fight, not send squishy reps up to beacon hill to beg for scraps and ultimately be ignored.

We have nothing to lose.

 

[bigmule]

So quick scan, yep still don't see a single thing that is going to deter criminals from robbing and murdering people.

But is that the goal here. I think it is not the goal.

 

[pastera]

Thinking more about this, a highly belligerent incarnation of GOAL could kill it with fundraising, and not just from within MA. Why not then use their resources to grab headlines and drum up support ($$$) from more MA gun owners as well as from gun owners across the country? They should be painting MA gun owners as modern patriots being crushed by tyrants. They should be telling the legislature to f*** off loudly enough that it makes national news. They should be openly mocking the legislators for their pathetic understanding of guns. They should be selling catchy 2A shwag to buyers across the country.

Lobbying amounts to begging for scraps in MA, and even then it's only when the legislature is feeling generous, or when they believe it to be in their own interest (i.e. avoiding future legal challenges). We need to put up a fight, not send squishy reps up to beacon hill to beg for scraps and ultimately be ignored.

GOAL is supposed to lobby and work with the legislature to stop or at least take the edge off these shitty bills.
Going scorched earth is not conducive to their goals.

 

[not new guy]

GOAL is supposed to lobby and work with the legislature to stop or at least take the edge off these shitty bills.
Going scorched earth is not conducive to their goals.

I get it, but that ship seems to have sailed with GOAL left standing on the dock.

 

[pastera]

I get it, but that ship seems to have sailed with GOAL left standing on the dock.

Take a look at the difference between H4139 and S2572 - GOAL had a hand in that.

 

[alan226]

Thinking more about this, a highly belligerent incarnation of GOAL could kill it with fundraising, and not just from within MA. Why not then use their resources to grab headlines and drum up support ($$$) from more MA gun owners as well as from gun owners across the country? They should be painting MA gun owners as modern patriots being crushed by tyrants. They should be telling the legislature to f*** off loudly enough that it makes national news. They should be openly mocking the legislators for their pathetic understanding of guns. They should be selling catchy 2A shwag to buyers across the country.

Lobbying amounts to begging for scraps in MA, and even then it's only when the legislature is feeling generous, or when they believe it to be in their own interest (i.e. avoiding future legal challenges). We need to put up a fight, not send squishy reps up to beacon hill to beg for scraps and ultimately be ignored.

We have nothing to lose.

View attachment 847120

Although not MA based, it sounds like what FPC is doing now.

 

[Harry Christopher]

“How shall we be getting bent over today, gents?” - MA Law-Abiding Gun Owners

After sending 30 emails to Boston explaining why I think this whole legislation is totally useless as far as actually addressing the crime issue this sums up the collective response that I got from them:

 

[VTski4x4]

Take a look at the difference between H4139 and S2572 - GOAL had a hand in that.

So they went from using sandpaper as lube to no lube - Not exactly a win. FPC has had tons of success with their f*** You stance, and I agree, we need way more of that.

 

[DarthRevan]

I was late to the hobby didn't start until 10/16. I should finish a build today and E-FA-10. At this point what the f*** does it matter.

Your first mistake is considering your rights a hobby.