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MSAR Aug..
- Thread starter seanc
- Start date
Very nice.
A few questions:
Do these take standard AR mags? How does it stack up size-wise with a normal M4 carbine setup? Do you know if the grip counts as a "pistol grip" with regard to the AWB? And finally, and don't feel obligated to answer: How much do these Bad Larry's go for?
A few questions:
Do these take standard AR mags? How does it stack up size-wise with a normal M4 carbine setup? Do you know if the grip counts as a "pistol grip" with regard to the AWB? And finally, and don't feel obligated to answer: How much do these Bad Larry's go for?
Fooped
Resident HK Guru
To the best of my knowledge, no.
Bummer. So much for picking one of those up.
get a NATO stock for it and itll feed ar mags...itll just cost you another $500
![[wink]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/002.gif "Wink [wink]")
The Goose
NES Member
No. The newer version takes Steyr AUG mags.
The Goose
NES Member
Not really that simple. Requires quite a bit of gunsmithing to make it work. If MSAR were smart they would jump on that now and make it work. New Steyr AUGs will be available soon which should effectively kill MSAR. Why buy a clone when you can get the real thing for a few hundred dollars more. I should have waited.
MSAR alternative that does take standard STANAG mags
Tactical Products Design's AXR rifle does take standard M16/AR-15 mags.
http://www.tpdusa.com/
I don't have the funds to get one of these yet, but I will. They cost about $500 more than the MSAR. Here is what Jill at Specialist Gun Shop said when I inquired about ordering one:
"Our last standard AXR with top rail only was $2149.00, and we have sold a few. The MSAR has a cast receiver while the AXR is milled out of Billet aluminum. Also, The AXR uses many Steyr parts as well as parts licensed by Steyr while the MSAR does not."
http://www.specialistgunshop.com/
Tactical Products Design's AXR rifle does take standard M16/AR-15 mags.
http://www.tpdusa.com/
I don't have the funds to get one of these yet, but I will. They cost about $500 more than the MSAR. Here is what Jill at Specialist Gun Shop said when I inquired about ordering one:
"Our last standard AXR with top rail only was $2149.00, and we have sold a few. The MSAR has a cast receiver while the AXR is milled out of Billet aluminum. Also, The AXR uses many Steyr parts as well as parts licensed by Steyr while the MSAR does not."
http://www.specialistgunshop.com/
+1 to each of you for excellent info.
I like that AXR design a lot better. The barrel looks much better than the one of the MSAR. IMO, the MSAR barrel and flash hider look a little fruity.
![[shocked]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/007.gif "Shocked [shocked]")
Overall it looks like a great design. The fact that it can take AR mags is a nice feature, too. The price tag... well, I'm going to have to save some pennies, I guess.
The Goose
NES Member
Whew! Now thats a relief! LOL!
Actually though, I had wanted one ever since I first saw Diehard. Now that I have one I am not sure what the attraction is other then the oddity. Different mags then an AR type, different magazine placement then either an AR or AK, whole different feel and function. Certainly rules it out as a SHTF or even defensive rifle. Too different from anything else I own. I guess I am the proud owner of a very expensive plinker! It is fun to shoot though.
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I dont really like Ar-15s or AKs that much either, I never shot either but I just dont really like them that much. I mainly like old guns and stuff like SKSs, garands, and carbines.
The main problem that I have with bullpups is that it is my understanding that most of them have really lousy trigger pulls. The trigger is connected to the sear by a very long bar, resulting in nasty feel (and from what I understand there isn't much you can do to improve it).
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The Goose
NES Member
The MSAR can be adapted to eject to either side.
On the pleasures of bullpups...
I have an FS2000 which ejects forward and leaves a neat pile of brass just below the barrel -- great for cleanups or retrieval for reloading. Here is a youtube video that shows this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=foVr5xFDkzo
Apart from that, the major advantages in my opinion are short length and balance.
The main drawback is the trigger, although there is at least one aftermarket product for AUG-type FCGs that is supposed to help: http://www.triggertamer.com/
Of course, I own AKMs, ARs, an FN FAL carbine, etc. As someone once said: "I have more guns than I need, but not as many as I want." The bottom line for your SHTF rifle though is practice...practice...practice.
I have an FS2000 which ejects forward and leaves a neat pile of brass just below the barrel -- great for cleanups or retrieval for reloading. Here is a youtube video that shows this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=foVr5xFDkzo
Apart from that, the major advantages in my opinion are short length and balance.
The main drawback is the trigger, although there is at least one aftermarket product for AUG-type FCGs that is supposed to help: http://www.triggertamer.com/
Of course, I own AKMs, ARs, an FN FAL carbine, etc. As someone once said: "I have more guns than I need, but not as many as I want." The bottom line for your SHTF rifle though is practice...practice...practice.
The MSAR STG-556 is a great carbine. Personally it's better than AR-15s and AUGs for the following reasons, in no particular order:
1) It's made in the U.S., so parts & service are quick to get a hold of (compared to Steyr, in case it has a problem shipping AUGs here)
2) Ambidextrous design (compared to the AR-15 which is catered towards right-handed shooters)
3) Barrel swap can be done quickly and on the go, takes less than 5 secs to take out the barrel (go from CQB to SAW)
4) Customer service is very high, my emails are replied within 24 hours and MSAR will ship you replacement parts if you ask
5) Built from higher quality materials than AUGs
6) Best trigger pull in the bullpup class, I found it to be crisp and snappy (you can buy something called a "trigger tamer" from Ratworx too)
7) It's very compact - this is what a carbine should be (many inches shorter than an AR-15 of the same barrel length)
Some more benefits of its design, like the AUG:
* Compact design means nothing is wasted, economy of space
* Compact design means the center of gravity is actually in the center of the rifle for easier control, less fatigue (vs. holding out an AR-15)
* Virtually no muzzle rise, target acquisition is faster and easier to do than an AR-15, easier follow-up shots
* More and more firefights occur at close quarters, MSAR is an excellent CQB rifle, ideal for home defense
The MSAR STG-556 allows users to customize their rifles but so far this is limited compared to AR-15 customization options. Personally I think all the AR-15s that are customized to the brink just looks silly. Everyone wants to look cool and pretend they're Special Forces. Your gear should work well before customization. If extensive customization is required (new stock, new lower, new BUIS, new optics, new foregrips, and so on), then you bought the wrong product. For example, the MSAR comes with a flippable foregrip by default, and the 1.5 CQB scope was an included option in some cases.
Just like how companies like Armalite, Colt, DPMS, Stag, and many more make their versions of the AR-15, MSAR is a company that makes its version of the AUG. So far MSAR and TPD are the only AUG makers that I'm aware of, other than Steyr. The gift of the design is also its curse. I believe that the AUG was and will continue to be ahead of its time. In terms of functionality, its advantages are clear, but due to its higher cost and rarity among the populous, it isn't as accepted, but exclusive nonetheless.
1) It's made in the U.S., so parts & service are quick to get a hold of (compared to Steyr, in case it has a problem shipping AUGs here)
2) Ambidextrous design (compared to the AR-15 which is catered towards right-handed shooters)
3) Barrel swap can be done quickly and on the go, takes less than 5 secs to take out the barrel (go from CQB to SAW)
4) Customer service is very high, my emails are replied within 24 hours and MSAR will ship you replacement parts if you ask
5) Built from higher quality materials than AUGs
6) Best trigger pull in the bullpup class, I found it to be crisp and snappy (you can buy something called a "trigger tamer" from Ratworx too)
7) It's very compact - this is what a carbine should be (many inches shorter than an AR-15 of the same barrel length)
Some more benefits of its design, like the AUG:
* Compact design means nothing is wasted, economy of space
* Compact design means the center of gravity is actually in the center of the rifle for easier control, less fatigue (vs. holding out an AR-15)
* Virtually no muzzle rise, target acquisition is faster and easier to do than an AR-15, easier follow-up shots
* More and more firefights occur at close quarters, MSAR is an excellent CQB rifle, ideal for home defense
The MSAR STG-556 allows users to customize their rifles but so far this is limited compared to AR-15 customization options. Personally I think all the AR-15s that are customized to the brink just looks silly. Everyone wants to look cool and pretend they're Special Forces. Your gear should work well before customization. If extensive customization is required (new stock, new lower, new BUIS, new optics, new foregrips, and so on), then you bought the wrong product. For example, the MSAR comes with a flippable foregrip by default, and the 1.5 CQB scope was an included option in some cases.
Just like how companies like Armalite, Colt, DPMS, Stag, and many more make their versions of the AR-15, MSAR is a company that makes its version of the AUG. So far MSAR and TPD are the only AUG makers that I'm aware of, other than Steyr. The gift of the design is also its curse. I believe that the AUG was and will continue to be ahead of its time. In terms of functionality, its advantages are clear, but due to its higher cost and rarity among the populous, it isn't as accepted, but exclusive nonetheless.
http://www.steyrarms.com/microsites/aug/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SohvmKMpV4I
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l5t_lsY9CcE
![[smile]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/001.gif "Smile [smile]")
I got to handle one a couple weeks ago. Loved it. I'm a big fan of the AUG design.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SohvmKMpV4I
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l5t_lsY9CcE
I got to handle one a couple weeks ago. Loved it. I'm a big fan of the AUG design.
Yes they can, but you have to buy and install an "other" handed bolt. That is, a left hand bolt to replace the right hand bolt if that's the way your's is set up.
BTW, does anyone know where I can pick up a 1.5X MSAR optic? The standard one that comes with the STG-556 or one that looks like it?
Try Ratworx for accessories, I don't see it listed at the moment, but they have had it in the past and may be able to get you one. Good people to work with.
http://www.ratworxusa.com/
http://www.ratworxusa.com/
