-
If you enjoy the forum please consider supporting it by signing up for a NES Membership The benefits pay for the membership many times over.
-
Be sure to enter the NES/Pioneer Valley Arms February Giveaway ***Smith & Wesson SD9VE 9MM***
MSAR Aug..
- Thread starter seanc
- Start date
MSAR has stopped producing the optic. You would have to find one used at this point.
At least for the MSAR's, their MSRP has not really been anything like normal for a while with demand outstripping supply while they have been moving their production facilities. Don't know about the AUG A3 SA, other than its MSRP ($2295, though I think they may have lowered it recently) is more than that of an MSAR.
Current pricing on MSAR E4's (AR mag version) has been running ~ $1700 or more in retail, but STGs (AUG mag) can be found for less. Ratworx just received a shipment of new MSAR rifles, but they have a pretty big waiting list, and no new pricing from them has yet come out. They will pin a break to make it MA complaint though, which most other online retailers do not have the ability to do (let alone the inclination or understanding of our laws).
I had a good local outfit get me an E4 from their distributor and make it compliant for me. I am happy with the results, just need to get my hands on a left hand bolt and some optics.![[smile]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/001.gif "Smile [smile]")
At least for the MSAR's, their MSRP has not really been anything like normal for a while with demand outstripping supply while they have been moving their production facilities. Don't know about the AUG A3 SA, other than its MSRP ($2295, though I think they may have lowered it recently) is more than that of an MSAR.
Current pricing on MSAR E4's (AR mag version) has been running ~ $1700 or more in retail, but STGs (AUG mag) can be found for less. Ratworx just received a shipment of new MSAR rifles, but they have a pretty big waiting list, and no new pricing from them has yet come out. They will pin a break to make it MA complaint though, which most other online retailers do not have the ability to do (let alone the inclination or understanding of our laws).
I had a good local outfit get me an E4 from their distributor and make it compliant for me. I am happy with the results, just need to get my hands on a left hand bolt and some optics.
I have always liked bullpup's. They look awesome and are very compact. I have wanted a Kel-Tec RFB for a while. A 7.62 bullpup just seems great.
http://www.kel-tec-cnc.com/rfb.htm
http://www.kel-tec-cnc.com/rfb.htm
MSAR has stopped producing the optic. You would have to find one used at this point.
At least for the MSAR's, their MSRP has not really been anything like normal for a while with demand outstripping supply while they have been moving their production facilities. Don't know about the AUG A3 SA, other than its MSRP ($2295, though I think they may have lowered it recently) is more than that of an MSAR.
Current pricing on MSAR E4's (AR mag version) has been running ~ $1700 or more in retail, but STGs (AUG mag) can be found for less. Ratworx just received a shipment of new MSAR rifles, but they have a pretty big waiting list, and no new pricing from them has yet come out. They will pin a break to make it MA complaint though, which most other online retailers do not have the ability to do (let alone the inclination or understanding of our laws).
I had a good local outfit get me an E4 from their distributor and make it compliant for me. I am happy with the results, just need to get my hands on a left hand bolt and some optics.
Beautiful carbine. I love bullpups.
I want to add that the prices for MSARs are volatile, meaning if you browse online, you can find them anywhere from $1,200 to well over $2,000 (this includes STG-556s and E4s). For example, Bud's Gun shop (http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/cPath/782/products_id/411536609) has a MSAR that costs over $2,100 dollars. The gun is harder to find in MA due to the state laws, so prices tend to be at a premium.
Dench
NES Member
I didn't even think that MSAR was still shipping rifles. Last I heard from an inside source was that they were basically out of business (around JAN-FEB).
Maybe things have changed for MSAR....
Maybe things have changed for MSAR....
Nah, moving from PA to NC will do that to you (though from what I hear they aren't fully moved yet). Maybe their options at the time were to either shut down or move out of PA for some reason? Don't really know, but they are alive and kicking as Ratworx just got hundreds of rifles from them as per MSARs posts on ARFCOM. And those on the backorder list are confirming calls from ratworx to fulfill.
Now if I can just find out if there were any left hand bolts on the truck....
Now if I can just find out if there were any left hand bolts on the truck....
I sent Dave (MSAR's customer service rep) an email a day or two ago and still haven't received a response. I think it's because of the move to NC. Usually Dave replies within a day or so. MSAR is very much alive, they're new in the firearm business because Microtech is a knife maker by origin. So far they're doing a good job at it and will fix whatever you need to get it right.
Which I don't understand. Fixed Stock...No Bayo Lug. All MSAR has to do is make a run of Mass Compliant barrels to have on hand and they can make any STG-556 or E4 they have in stock MA compliant in 20 seconds with a barrel change. Substitute 10 round mags for the 30 rounders and its ready to ship to MA. What am I missing?
You are not missing anything. They made many CT/NY and I assume MA ones (one in my safe right now, and 2 buddies as well). Of course we do get to high caps.
Question: there are Steyr mags around (I would think pre-ban) wouldn't you all be able to use those? My friend bought his STG-556 after I saw them and we started talking about them. He already had some old Aug mags. He did the 'conversion' but they didn't work in his gun (early generation). My is a later generation and they work fine in mine. Of course the E4 would have been nice (not to have to spend all that money on mags....)
Rat worx used to have NY compliant ones on their website and I believe they shipped with 10 rd mags (they should be MA compliant as well) - check it out.
Question: there are Steyr mags around (I would think pre-ban) wouldn't you all be able to use those? My friend bought his STG-556 after I saw them and we started talking about them. He already had some old Aug mags. He did the 'conversion' but they didn't work in his gun (early generation). My is a later generation and they work fine in mine. Of course the E4 would have been nice (not to have to spend all that money on mags....)
Rat worx used to have NY compliant ones on their website and I believe they shipped with 10 rd mags (they should be MA compliant as well) - check it out.
It's because of the "evil" features: flash hider and the pistol grip (which I think is moot). Because the MSAR can accept high cap mags (my STG-556 can accept pre-ban AUG mags, and E4s can accept pre-ban AR mags), it is considered an assault weapon so it can only have one evil feature. We know what a headache MA laws can be so some people just don't want to bother with it. You can buy a MSAR with the flash hider replaced by a muzzle brake from RatWorx. RatWorx will make modifications to your gun even if you didn't purchase it from them.
I think people who buy guns like the MSAR don't want a 10-round mag, they want 30-rounders or more. The majority of states in the US don't have moronic gun laws like we do, so it wouldn't make sense for MSARInc to alter their production just to cater to a particular state (or the gun-unfriendly ones). It's a very young and small company at the present.
In understand the pistol grip and mags evil features. I have seen Ratworx's site as I had been looking to maybe get one of these. Ratworx claimed on their sight they did work to make it NY Ct legal (they actually called it a NY compliant rifle) When MSAR ran a special on the STG556's around the end of last year the price floated around $1100ish. The "NY compliant" model was at about a 35- 40% premium. For what? I understand a little but ones I have seen are way too artificially inflated for what would actually be required to make it MA/NY compliant. Also they didn't have any MA compliant E4's listed.
My point was why on both counts when all they have to do is simply make a run of compliant barrels (non-threaded barrel or Perm attached MB and they can turn ANY STG556 or E4 they have in inventory into a NY CT MA compliant rifle in about 20 seconds given the rifles design. It would require minimal effort on their part but they don't seem to be bothered. E4 would have been especially good as preban AR mags are easier to come by than preban AUG mags. But how long has the E4 been out? 9 months? I haven't even seen a factory E4 MA (or NY for that matter) compliant model.
Nice rifles with good reputation and MSAR has a good rep at CS. While I figure that there is demand atm that they are full on production to meet this demand they feel they don't need to make that minimal effort...all good but it kind of turned me away from the purchase.
Last edited:
I suggest sending Dave an email. I don't know the details of the company's move, but I think it's expanding its production to meet demand. Perhaps once the company is settled, it'll start selling MA compliant MSARs. There have been some debate over whether giving exclusive distribution rights to one company (RatWorx) was a good idea, given how supply isn't keeping up with demand. But again, I hope that and other concerns will be addressed when MSAR is up and running again.
Well, you could always buy a pre-ban AUG, I mean, what's another $3-4k here or there?
The $1100 price they had on STGs was not retail, it was a sale... you could have just asked for them to pin a break to the $1100 STG and got it for ~$1250 MA legal.
Why make a compliant version of your weapon when Ratworx was able to do it for the same, or more likely even less cost?
The $1100 price they had on STGs was not retail, it was a sale... you could have just asked for them to pin a break to the $1100 STG and got it for ~$1250 MA legal.
Why make a compliant version of your weapon when Ratworx was able to do it for the same, or more likely even less cost?
At that time Ratworx had the "NY" compliant version listed in stock on their website for 1700 (the on sale price was 1400-1500). What different is their NY version from what work you describe having them do? Nothing.
Now granted I did not check....but you are implying that they would have converted a non MA complaint rifle to being compliant and sell it to me for less than a listed price for the already changed "official" version of the compliant model?
Basically, what I am trying to say is I don't really know anything about that NY version they were selling. I am however pretty sure you will not be seeing any more NY (NJ, CT, MA, etc) specific versions of either the STG or E4 (and there is a rumor that the STG may have production run down due to popularity and demand of the E4). I think it was a failed experiment, and they have since learned their lesson. And I think that that is just fine by me... because you are exactly right, the increased cost of that version was not worth the modifications.
I have talked to ratworx about it a couple of times, and the quote I was given ranged from $0 to $40-60 fee + cost of break (if they didn't have one laying around that they could give me). I guess it depends on who you talk to, but even at the higher end, it seems reasonable to me. Heck, I did not wait for Ratworx to get restock of the E4 and payed far more out of pocket to make it legal than it would have cost me had I waited. But hey, that was my choice and I am 100% satisfied with the end result, and that is all that really matters. I bet that had you called them, they would have made the mods for you at a reasonable price. Most of the time their web site is woefully out of date anyway, it may be that the listed NY version wasn't even available anymore.
Now, if you want to complain about a manufacturer not having MA legal versions, let's talk FNH and the SCAR. [sad2]
I have talked to ratworx about it a couple of times, and the quote I was given ranged from $0 to $40-60 fee + cost of break (if they didn't have one laying around that they could give me). I guess it depends on who you talk to, but even at the higher end, it seems reasonable to me. Heck, I did not wait for Ratworx to get restock of the E4 and payed far more out of pocket to make it legal than it would have cost me had I waited. But hey, that was my choice and I am 100% satisfied with the end result, and that is all that really matters. I bet that had you called them, they would have made the mods for you at a reasonable price. Most of the time their web site is woefully out of date anyway, it may be that the listed NY version wasn't even available anymore.
Now, if you want to complain about a manufacturer not having MA legal versions, let's talk FNH and the SCAR. [sad2]
The E4 version is popular because it can accept AR mags. It seems like everyone and his dog has an AR so it provides a greater incentive for those customers to buy a MSAR. I went against the tide and didn't bite the AR bullet, so I never saw a reason to get the E4. My STG556 has Steyr AUG mags that are very durable, even when compared to pmags (AUG mags are thicker). It's also one of the few, if any, true carbines that can fit in a regular backpack. The AR guys at the range are always lugging around their ARs in large carry bags. When I ask them what they say when their neighbors ask about the contents, the answer is that it's a keyboard and that they're musicians...
Getting back on topic, the fee for a less expensive muzzle brake (there are 2 from Rock River Arms) is under $30.00 dollars. The quote that RatWorx gave me for the installation was $30.00 dollars. Then you have to factor in shipping, so overall it should cost you under $100.00 dollars, unless you go for the flashy muzzle brakes that cost close to $100 or more. MSAR brakes are few and far in between. If you want to buy one of these carbines, whether if it's MSAR or AUG, your budget should be around the $2k - $3k range (mags, slings, mods, rails and optics will cost even more).
Getting back on topic, the fee for a less expensive muzzle brake (there are 2 from Rock River Arms) is under $30.00 dollars. The quote that RatWorx gave me for the installation was $30.00 dollars. Then you have to factor in shipping, so overall it should cost you under $100.00 dollars, unless you go for the flashy muzzle brakes that cost close to $100 or more. MSAR brakes are few and far in between. If you want to buy one of these carbines, whether if it's MSAR or AUG, your budget should be around the $2k - $3k range (mags, slings, mods, rails and optics will cost even more).
beaker
NES Member
I ordered an E4 last week from Ratworx Compliance cost $50 to swap out the tulip flash hider for a pinned and welded compensator. They are also permanently modifying the PMAGS so they can hold only 10 rounds. That's it, no problems. As soon as I said Mass, they knew exactly what they had to do, and it was very reasonable. So I would assume they have done it lots of times.
Compliance cost $50 to swap out the tulip flash hider for a pinned and welded compensator. They are also permanently modifying the PMAGS so they can hold only 10 rounds. That's it, no problems. As soon as I said Mass, they knew exactly what they had to do, and it was very reasonable. So I would assume they have done it lots of times.
I am using the B2-T1CO riser, but if I don't end up liking it I can always get the B2-T1SOCOM for lower 1/3 co-witness. I like modular. I have not zeroed the T-1 yet, but the co-witness of this combo puts the red dot right above the front post.
Yes, that is indeed the new 2020 Precision TR-35 rail that Ratworx just got in. Really easy to install and fits perfectly. I can't wait for his side rails to go with it.
I have not zeroed the T-1 yet, but the co-witness of this combo puts the red dot right above the front post. Yes, that is indeed the new 2020 Precision TR-35 rail that Ratworx just got in. Really easy to install and fits perfectly. I can't wait for his side rails to go with it.
beaker
NES Member
I have the socom spacer on my AR mount and I am going to try it on the E4 when I get it. It may be too high for it though. How is your cheek weld with it?
I am using the B2-T1CO riser, but if I don't end up liking it I can always get the B2-T1SOCOM for lower 1/3 co-witness. I like modular.
Yes, that is indeed the new 2020 Precision TR-35 rail that Ratworx just got in. Really easy to install and fits perfectly. I can't wait for his side rails to go with it.
- Joined
- Oct 9, 2010
- Messages
- 1
- Likes
- 0
MSAR 1.5x QCB optic
I have a MSAR 1.5x CQB P/N 219 optic never mounted, not a scratch on it.
Do you still need one?
Robert Treat Rayner cell 407-435-1812 Orlando FL
Rayner@earthlink.net
I have a MSAR 1.5x CQB P/N 219 optic never mounted, not a scratch on it.
Do you still need one?
Robert Treat Rayner cell 407-435-1812 Orlando FL
Rayner@earthlink.net
I had thought about the Manticore scope mount (smooth to half to rings) in place of the factory optic. Then the question becomes what scope to get? If it is a battery powered iluminated scope want a etched reticle just in case the battery goes down I can still use the optic.
I thought about a Burris TAC 30 1-4x.
smitty
I thought about a Burris TAC 30 1-4x.
smitty
