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Optics debate.

http://tracking-point.com/labs/ar/
Great optics, you can shoot backwards with a mirror. Got 9950!
Seriously, expect to spend what your rifle costs on optics. You get what you pay for and it sure beats a box of crappy scopes you thought would work and none of them did. Get it done right the first time. Many fine suggestions have been offered. See if someone has an optic you can try, already mounted and zeroed, I will not take my scope off so someone else can try it, you may shoot my rifles till your shoulder hurts though.
 
bullseye said:
Seriously, expect to spend what your rifle costs on optics. You get what you pay for and it sure beats a box of crappy scopes you thought would work and none of them did.
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Buy once, cry once.

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Greg said:
In the end ,it costs more settling for just good enough.

Buy once,cry once.
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beat me by a second
 
DarthRevan said:
When does it get to the point where there's too much spent on the optic and not enough on the gun?
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I reached a point when my 2 ARs had optics on them worth more than my truck.....thank God I was able to sell all of it @ cost a year later.

Useing a scope to see your shots especially 223 is almost pointless. Especially if lighting sucks. (ShootNc targets work) . I'm not into transitioning distances. If your looking to get hits on target from 20-100 yards almost any decent red dot will do.
Heck my old tasco pro point worked well for that.
I can just see 223 hoes with my spotting scope on 20x @ 100 yards Useing the SR1 targets the holes can be tough to pick up in the black bull
 
For a multi use AR i.e. HD, shooting out to 150 or so who prefers a 1-4 or 2-7? Not asking about brand just specs.
http://muelleroptics.com/mu2732igr
162.jpg

or
http://muelleroptics.com/mueller-speed-shot-1-4x24
Speed-Shot-Actual-Photo-Use.jpg
 
I think it's a matter of balancing your budget between the gun, glass, and quality of ammo. You spend a ton of money on gun and glass, and try to put hole in hole with crap ammo well... ok. Lol

My gun hits plates at 200 with AE fmj. I'm good with that for now, but as I'm able, I'll be investing for improvement
 
When I decided to focus on mastering one good rifle, I went with an AR10 with Nightforce 3.5-15X56 and Dueck BUIS at 45 degrees. The Duecks have the night inserts, and the Nightforce has an illuminated reticle, and the 56mm objective gathers lots of light. All of this helps compensate for aging eyes.

Any optic can get broken, or obscured by something a simple as mist blowing in the wrong direction, so for me BUIS are required. At 45 degrees, switching is instantaneous and you keep your hands where they belong. Since the BUIS are always there, the scope doesn't have to be very low power. I thought about 5-25X56, but 5x on the bottom seemed too much. I like the bigger field of view of the 3.5x. YMMV.

I'll spend the rest of my life learning to shoot to the potential of that rifle.

I do have one gripe about this rig that I'll share. The Nightforce has windage and elevation solutions engraved into the reticle, so you can hold off easily rather than fuss with the knobs. I got the reticle for full-power 175 SMK loads. That all works great. But the knobs on the scope stick out much too far. When you lay the rifle on a flat surface, it rests on the scope knobs. When you set up a case, you have to allow for the fact that the scope knobs will hit first if the foam is compressed. I know big knobs are a feature for some, but I find they just make the scope more vulnerable to impact. Why did they go to all the trouble to set up an awesome reticle that allows me to not fuss with the scope knobs, and then saddle me with massive scope knobs that I only use to zero? /rant

I think of the cost in terms of ammo. The rifle and sights each cost about the same as 4 cases of decent ammo.
 
Roland Deschain said:
I think it's a matter of balancing your budget between the gun, glass, and quality of ammo. You spend a ton of money on gun and glass, and try to put hole in hole with crap ammo well... ok. Lol

My gun hits plates at 200 with AE fmj. I'm good with that for now, but as I'm able, I'll be investing for improvement
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Good info here

I can hit my 10" steal plate pretty consistently at 200yds with my aimpoint micro unsupported, if I really need to stretch it out I will flip up my backup irons and shoot without the dot. As I get older and my eyes get shittier a 1-X variable power scope will probably work its way into my system but until then, if I can make body shots reliably out to 2-300 I'll stick to the micro because its lightweight, low profile, rugged, simple to use, and nv compatible. These benefits outweigh, to me anyhow, the longer range advantage afforded me by using a bulkier magnified optic.
 
chindogg said:
For a multi use AR i.e. HD, shooting out to 150 or so who prefers a 1-4 or 2-7? Not asking about brand just specs.
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I bought a 1-4x based on what the guys I was shooting rifle/3gun matches with used because they were way better then me, and I figured they were doing something right. Now that I have had my 1-4 for a few years, I am finding that it works great for anything I will need my rifle to do. I can run the gun fast enough up close, and when I calmed down and took my time, I could make hits on steel out at 500 yards at the New Bedford range.
 
The vortex razr 1-6 is an excellent scope for the price. It replaced my ACOG with a red dot at 45*. It is only slightly slower than a red dot but only up close or in odd positions because of the less forgiving eye relief then a red dot. The 1-6 gives more flexibility and reach then the acog.
 
If you're going to shoot less than 1k rounds per year, stay in the $300-700 range. There are lots of good options for all types of optics in that range.

If you're going to settle on a scope, shoot more and/or use that as a primary battle rifle I'd start at $700 and go up as high as your wallet will allow.

ETA:

If you want to know what the difference between a $1000 scope and a $3000 one is, try them out in low light conditions. There is a huge difference.
 
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Nikon M-223 is a great all-around scope. comes with mount, flip-up caps, anti-reflective device (for sniping predators), and the price is very competitive vs. Leupold and others. Choose the one that fits your needs and be done with it. They have 1-4, 2-8, 3-12, and 4-16 variable power zoom.

I get 3/4" 100 yard groups with my AR and the 3-12 power Nikon. Zoomed out to 3x, it has a wide field-of-view for fast target acquisition.

This new one (1.5 - 6x) even has a lighted reticle for the best of all worlds:

http://www.nikonsportoptics.com/Nikon-Products/Riflescopes/M-223-1.5-6x24-BDC-600-IL.html
 
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xtry51 said:
If you're going to shoot less than 1k rounds per year, stay in the $300-700 range. There are lots of good options for all types of optics in that range.

If you're going to settle on a scope, shoot more and/or use that as a primary battle rifle I'd start at $700 and go up as high as your wallet will allow.

ETA:

If you want to know what the difference between a $1000 scope and a $3000 one is, try them out in low light conditions. There is a huge difference.
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This, when I was shopping for optics for my bolt gun I looked at nightforce, leupold, us optics, and s&b. The S&B blew the others away in clarity, I think US optics is a close second. In the end I went with the good old tried and true Leupold LRT because it was so much cheaper than the S&B and USO scopes I wanted. But its true the difference is noticeable.
 
For a general use AR, 1-4x (or 1-6 or 1-8 if you can afford it) is the way to go. There's a reason it's what almost all the 3 gun guys use. 1x is almost as fast as a red dot up close, and 4x is usable out to the limits of 223. The only reason I'd use anything else is going to a red dot to save weight or going to a higher power scope for precision paper punching at long distance.
 
AllaSnackbah said:
This, when I was shopping for optics for my bolt gun I looked at nightforce, leupold, us optics, and s&b. The S&B blew the others away in clarity, I think US optics is a close second. In the end I went with the good old tried and true Leupold LRT because it was so much cheaper than the S&B and USO scopes I wanted. But its true the difference is noticeable.
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S&B glass is truly amazing. If you wan to see your holes being punched at long distance without a spotting scope get a 3-27x56

http://www.schmidtundbender.de/en/products/police-and-military-forces/3-27x56-pm-ii-high-power.html
 
xtry51 said:
S&B glass is truly amazing. If you wan to see your holes being punched at long distance without a spotting scope get a 3-27x56

http://www.schmidtundbender.de/en/products/police-and-military-forces/3-27x56-pm-ii-high-power.html
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No thank you.

I'd much rather have a smaller, lighter, lower power scope mounted lower on my gun plus a spotting scope.

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DarthRevan said:
Not seeing prices on that site worries me lol
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If you care about what it costs, then you can't afford Schmidt und Bender. [laugh]
 
Terminator03 said:
Holy crap! That scope better come with a reach around for that price![laugh]
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overkill on a fighting rifle or designated marksman rifle imo, but on a precision rifle, especially something in .338/.50 that i was taking out to >800 yards, i would spend the money in a second.
 
AllaSnackbah said:
overkill on a fighting rifle or designated marksman rifle imo, but on a precision rifle, especially something in .338/.50 that i was taking out to >800 yards, i would spend the money in a second.
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Makes sense, and for the rifles you are talking about, at least are in the price range where they aren't 25% (or less) of the value of the scope. Those would also have an effective range to justify that level of scope as well.
 

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