Police respond to report of shooting at pro-Israeli protest in Newton

[Grendizer138]

Maybe you guys should start calling him “the attacker” rather than “soy boy” and “bitch” and whatnot. I mean, it took three dudes and a gun to take him out and all.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

Explain it

For starters -

Flight gives the impression of guilt. This causes things to go worse in numerous ways, and the chances of not being caught after a self defense incident in which a gun is fired is slim. Witnesses and cameras everywhere, plus cell phone tracking to prove you were in the vicinity.

 

[Sunny]

Drove Mass Pike today and saw a bunch of pro-Israel flags/signs on a Newton bridge. Prob 10-15 people. A Palestine flag in there too. Looks like theyre keeping it going.

 

[MAGA99]

I posted this over in the IDF thread:

In regards to Newton, and the guy that got attacked being charged.

That’s why you don’t call the police, leave the scene quickly, don’t answer questions and don’t go to the station ‘for a talk’.

There is no advantage to being ‘socially responsible’

Why is ‘Defund the Police’ gaining traction? This is why.

*****************************************************************************

The Newton Police Facebook Page is looking pretty negative for them. If you do business with anyone in Newton, stop and tell them why.

Absolutely, never involve the corrupt establishment into your life. Then get the f*** outa there. That’s what all the people that don’t get prosecuted for all the bad shit they do do, and they get away with it.

Always gotta have yourself in the correct mindset for your setting.

 

[headednorth]

With all due respect, you don't seem to have a clue as to how things really work.

Why in the world would you leave the scene where you were perfectly justified in killing the attacker? The state has to investigate the killing. Fleeing the scene is about the stupidest thing you could do in that situation.

Im not necessarily saying I would do it, Im just curious why it would matter after the fact.

"Yes, we all agree he was trying to murder you and if you stayed you'd be fine, but you ran so we're sending you to prison for life."

Doesnt make sense. The act is over and done. It was either self defense or not, and either murder or not so why should it matter?

 

[MAGA99]

Im not necessarily saying I would do it, Im just curious why it would matter after the fact.

"Yes, we all agree he was trying to murder you and if you stayed you'd be fine, but you ran so we're sending you to prison for life."

Doesnt make sense. The act is over and done. It was either self defense or not, and either murder or not so why should it matter?

In a perfect world you would be correct.

This world is a little more complicated.

 

[not new guy]

Im not necessarily saying I would do it, Im just curious why it would matter after the fact.

"Yes, we all agree he was trying to murder you and if you stayed you'd be fine, but you ran so we're sending you to prison for life."

Doesnt make sense. The act is over and done. It was either self defense or not, and either murder or not so why should it matter?

Because they will investigate, if it’s someplace like Newton (for example) you will be found, and because leaving the scene will absolutely weigh heavily against you in the inevitable criminal case.

 

[headednorth]

Because they will investigate, if it’s someplace like Newton (for example) you will be found, and because leaving the scene will absolutely weigh heavily against you in the inevitable criminal case.

Its more of a theoretical question I guess. I understand why at first it looks bad, but after all the facts are in, why should it matter?

"Headednorth was minding his own business. He has a valid LTC and was carrying a legally owned pistol with the prerequisite ghey 10 round mags. Career criminal guy attacks him with a machete for no reason. HN tries to flee but is chased down. HN attempts to use pepper spray while demanding the guy go away. Criminal is undeterred. HN draws his pistol and repeatedly warns the guy to leave him alone. Guy charges HN with a machete raised over his head. HN fires and kills the guy. Clear cut case of self defense. We all know this. Multiple witnesses corroborate the event. Multiple cameras recorded video of it. There's no question regarding the events, but he ran away so we're going to send him to prison. Why did he run? Who knows, but he did so even though all agree it was a textbook case of sd and he had every right to use deadly force, we're still going to call it murder or manslaughter or whatever.

 

[42!]

Im not necessarily saying I would do it, Im just curious why it would matter after the fact.

"Yes, we all agree he was trying to murder you and if you stayed you'd be fine, but you ran so we're sending you to prison for life."

Doesnt make sense. The act is over and done. It was either self defense or not, and either murder or not so why should it matter?

Fleeing the scene makes you look guilty, and the cops and DA aren't determining if you ARE guilty, just if there is something that may look like you are guilty. So it will definitely get you charged.
In court, fleeing will be given as an indicator you knew you were doing something wrong, and it's a pretty good one. In the eyes of the law it may make no difference, but in the eyes of the jury it will be considered along with everything else they present.

No it doesn't necessarily make you guilty, but it makes you look guilty to a jury, and that makes you guilty.

 

[not new guy]

Its more of a theoretical question I guess. I understand why at first it looks bad, but after all the facts are in, why should it matter?

"Headednorth was minding his own business. He has a valid LTC and was carrying a legally owned pistol with the prerequisite ghey 10 round mags. Career criminal guy attacks him with a machete for no reason. HN tries to flee but is chased down. HN attempts to use pepper spray while demanding the guy go away. Criminal is undeterred. HN draws his pistol and repeatedly warns the guy to leave him alone. Guy charges HN with a machete raised over his head. HN fires and kills the guy. Clear cut case of self defense. We all know this. Multiple witnesses corroborate the event. Multiple cameras recorded video of it. There's no question regarding the events, but he ran away so we're going to send him to prison. Why did he run? Who knows, but he did so even though all agree it was a textbook case of sd and he had every right to use deadly force, we're still going to call it murder or manslaughter or whatever.

The question boils down to is it a crime to leave the scene of a killing. Please hold…

ETA: General Law - Part I, Title VI, Chapter 38, Section 3

 

[42!]

Its more of a theoretical question I guess. I understand why at first it looks bad, but after all the facts are in, why should it matter?

"Headednorth was minding his own business. He has a valid LTC and was carrying a legally owned pistol with the prerequisite ghey 10 round mags. Career criminal guy attacks him with a machete for no reason. HN tries to flee but is chased down. HN attempts to use pepper spray while demanding the guy go away. Criminal is undeterred. HN draws his pistol and repeatedly warns the guy to leave him alone. Guy charges HN with a machete raised over his head. HN fires and kills the guy. Clear cut case of self defense. We all know this. Multiple witnesses corroborate the event. Multiple cameras recorded video of it. There's no question regarding the events, but he ran away so we're going to send him to prison. Why did he run? Who knows, but he did so even though all agree it was a textbook case of sd and he had every right to use deadly force, we're still going to call it murder or manslaughter or whatever.

No, you're going to be charged. That doesn't make you guilty.

 

[KBCraig]

For me, the biggest clue of innocence on the part of the shooter was that he immediately started making sure his pistol was secured, while yelling at the people trying (ineffectually) to stomp the attacker, to "get off him". Then he instructs people to call 911, and immediately starts rendering first aid (as a veteran would).

 

[MAGA99]

Its more of a theoretical question I guess. I understand why at first it looks bad, but after all the facts are in, why should it matter?

"Headednorth was minding his own business. He has a valid LTC and was carrying a legally owned pistol with the prerequisite ghey 10 round mags. Career criminal guy attacks him with a machete for no reason. HN tries to flee but is chased down. HN attempts to use pepper spray while demanding the guy go away. Criminal is undeterred. HN draws his pistol and repeatedly warns the guy to leave him alone. Guy charges HN with a machete raised over his head. HN fires and kills the guy. Clear cut case of self defense. We all know this. Multiple witnesses corroborate the event. Multiple cameras recorded video of it. There's no question regarding the events, but he ran away so we're going to send him to prison. Why did he run? Who knows, but he did so even though all agree it was a textbook case of sd and he had every right to use deadly force, we're still going to call it murder or manslaughter or whatever.

If your gun is out of your holster and you haven’t pulled the trigger in like 3 seconds or less, you should not have pulled the gun.

 

[pastera]

Gentlemen, i just arrived in Orlando. We will have to continue the debate at a later date!

And I get the hell out of this damn furnace this afternoon (90° in the shade in September is ungodly)

Spent the last 10 days in testing with the last 4 on a surface vessel standing on deck in the heat for an hour and a half to two hours then a 45 minute to hour reprieve on the air conditioned bridge at 80°.

 

[MAGA99]

Fleeing the scene makes you look guilty, and the cops and DA aren't determining if you ARE guilty, just if there is something that may look like you are guilty. So it will definitely get you charged.
In court, fleeing will be given as an indicator you knew you were doing something wrong, and it's a pretty good one. In the eyes of the law it may make no difference, but in the eyes of the jury it will be considered along with everything else they present.

No it doesn't necessarily make you guilty, but it makes you look guilty to a jury, and that makes you guilty.

Fleeing just means you don’t intend to participate in their rigged show trial. Staying would be fine in NH or any sane jurisdiction in a sane state. But in commie mass, you should never interact with the geatapo whether you’re in the right or wrong. Having to shoot someone that needs shooting doesn’t change that calculus.

Unfortunately, the commies are at war with normies whether you want to admit it or not. It’s best to act accordingly.

 

[MAGA99]

Gentlemen, i just arrived in Orlando. We will have to continue the debate at a later date!

Why you going to that shit hole?? I thought you were located in one of those fancier zip codes in FL?! Why you slumming??

 

[pastera]

I still dont understand this. Someone one attacks me and I use deadly force to defend myself. For the sake of argument, its an airtight, textbook case of self defense. If I flee the scene, Im a murderer but if I stay Im allowed to walk free. In either case the circumstances are the same regardless of my actions AFTER it happened.

In this case - single attacker incapacitated by your defensive actions?
Stay put and wait for police

However if the situation is that the scene is still dangerous, get yourself to the nearest safe location and call it in with "I was force to defend my life at (location), I escaped and am now at (location). Send medical to both locations" then hang up.

 

[pastera]

Fleeing just means you don’t intend to participate in their rigged show trial. Staying would be fine in NH or any sane jurisdiction in a sane state. But in commie mass, you should never interact with the geatapo whether you’re in the right or wrong. Having to shoot someone that needs shooting doesn’t change that calculus.

Unfortunately, the commies are at war with normies whether you want to admit it or not. It’s best to act accordingly.

No fleeing a safe scene shows a "guilty mind".
There's a shit ton of case law for this so a 100% clean shoot can end up with you in prison for a long time because you ran and didn't report.

You want to be the first to report since that's who gets the benefit of any doubt pre trial.

 

[pastera]

Maybe you guys should start calling him “the attacker” rather than “soy boy” and “bitch” and whatnot. I mean, it took three dudes and a gun to take him out and all.

I have used them interchangeably since both descriptions fit.
He chose to attack the person with their back to him instead of those that were, as far as we currently know, arguing with him - that fact places him squarely in bitch territory.

 

[pastera]

Im not necessarily saying I would do it, Im just curious why it would matter after the fact.

"Yes, we all agree he was trying to murder you and if you stayed you'd be fine, but you ran so we're sending you to prison for life."

Doesnt make sense. The act is over and done. It was either self defense or not, and either murder or not so why should it matter?

Unfortunately it does matter and it's solid case law that running and not reporting can and absolutely will be used against you.

 

[MAGA99]

The only reason there was any question there was "because black"

Professional whiners and race baiters. Almost as low as commie scum….

 

[pastera]

Professional whiners and race baiters. Almost as low as commie scum….

Since they usually are commie scum then same bottom of the barrel scum.

 

[Grendizer138]

I have used them interchangeably since both descriptions fit.
He chose to attack the person with their back to him instead of those that were, as far as we currently know, arguing with him - that fact places him squarely in bitch territory.

The protester had his back turned to a crazy guy across the street yelling at him and his group?

Oooo k.

 

[GM-GUY]

Why in the world would you leave the scene where you were perfectly justified in killing the attacker? The state has to investigate the killing. Fleeing the scene is about the stupidest thing you could do in that situation.

I wouldn’t ‘flee’, if just walk away. I’ve looked and haven’t found it - there is no law that says I need to stay. There is no law that says I need to provide evidence (incriminate myself - the opposite actually). How do I know he didn’t have more buddies coming better armed?

In this state (or really anywhere) after the riots where persons defending themselves were routinely arrested / I’ll depart given the opportunity.

 

[not new guy]

And not report it or anything? Feel free to but it’s a huge mistake.

 

[BroncoAZ]

This is where I’m at on this situation. Could it have been life or death? I guess. Freak stuff happens. Was that idiot trying to murder him? Even if he truly was (very unlikely), could he have pulled it off with all those other people around?

And this isn’t a moral question or a rights or legal question, it’s a question of whether the shoot was in the shooter’s best interests, in hindsight and after the dust settles. I really, really doubt it was and I bet if he’s being honest with himself he regrets it now. But he’s also the dumb shit who posts pictures of his gun online and seems eager to use it in exactly this situation.

A guy I worked with missed 8 months of work after a simple trip and fall in a crosswalk nearly killed him. He was in his 40’s and fit, out for a walk with his wife and kids. I don’t remember exactly what happened, but he hit his head in some way. This attack could’ve caused severe injury or death. Personally I agree that shooting may not have been in the shooter’s best interest, but I wasn’t in that situation when it happened. This does seem like a good lesson in FAFO for other would be attackers who can’t control their emotions. A mutual verbal altercation (which is doesn’t sound like this was, not specifically with the victim) does not justify running across the street to assault someone physically.

 

[42!]

If your gun is out of your holster and you haven’t pulled the trigger in like 3 seconds or less, you should not have pulled the gun.

I always thought this was an odd result of the laws in ma, it practically encourages you to shoot if you draw even if the situation changes. Since you can only use a gun if there is imminent threat, you obviously have to be in this state when you draw. If the situation changes and you don't shoot, then you obviously weren't in imminent threat, so drawing is now assault.

Thini about it, guy comes at you with a knife, at say 10' you draw. He sees the gun, drops the knife, and puts up his hands, and you don't shoot. Your story is you drew and he stopped his attack. But his story is he was never going to attack you, was just walking toward you and was going to stop. In MA they will charge you for assult. You'd be better off if you shot him and thus stopped the attack.

It's a twisted system that make shooting necessary to prove imminent treat.

 

[not new guy]

I always thought this was an odd result of the laws in ma, it practically encourages you to shoot if you draw even if the situation changes. Since you can only use a gun if there is imminent threat, you obviously have to be in this state when you draw. If the situation changes and you don't shoot, then you obviously weren't in imminent threat, so drawing is now assault.

Thini about it, guy comes at you with a knife, at say 10' you draw. He sees the gun, drops the knife, and puts up his hands, and you don't shoot. Your story is you drew and he stopped his attack. But his story is he was never going to attack you, was just walking toward you and was going to stop. In MA they will charge you for assult. You'd be better off if you shot him and thus stopped the attack.

It's a twisted system that make shooting necessary to prove imminent treat.

Maybe, but are you better off dealing with an assault charge and arguing that you thought you might need to shoot but thought better of it or shooting because you didn't want to deal with the assault charge (which sounds insane when you say it out loud)?

These situations are way too nuanced and situation specific to f*** around with hard and fast rules like you better shoot if you draw. Threads like this are a little scary because I can see a ton of people reading it and thinking it's a good idea to shoot somebody physically threatening them because they might/should win the subsequent court case. But it's not about rights, or success in court, or the possibility of maybe bumping your eggshell skull off the pavement, or other out there hypotheticals. Pulling a gun and using it is a life-changing decision for all involved so you better make damn sure you really have to before you do it.

 

[Grendizer138]

Maybe, but are you better off dealing with an assault charge and arguing that you thought you might need to shoot but thought better of it or shooting because you didn't want to deal with the assault charge (which sounds insane when you say it out loud)?

These situations are way too nuanced and situation specific to f*** around with hard and fast rules like you better shoot if you draw. Threads like this are a little scary because I can see a ton of people reading it and thinking it's a good idea to shoot somebody physically threatening them because they might/should win the subsequent court case. But it's not about rights, or success in court, or the possibility of maybe bumping your eggshell skull off the pavement, or other out there hypotheticals. Pulling a gun and using it is a life-changing decision for all involved so you better make damn sure you really have to before you do it.

Perfect.

Or, as my trainer would say, before you pull the trigger ask “who’s life are you saving?”

 

[mav]

Slam dunk. Attacker runs across street and tackles person. “I was in fear of my life. He attempted to grab my gun from the holster”.

f*** this state. f*** the DA. f*** the Newton Police.

Other than being in Newton and MA, the only thing this poor guy did wrong was he didn’t keep pulling the trigger until the attacker was dead. Then we could have had another post in the FAFO thread.