Police respond to report of shooting at pro-Israeli protest in Newton

There was some reason the kid jumped Hayes specifically. He looked younger and in better shape that others there, so why pick him?

EDIT: I won't be surprised if the kid claims some mental illness to explain why he tried to tackle a bigger dude with other dudes around him at the time. Now it becomes "Crazed vet shoots disabled kid for screaming"...
 
Len-2A Training said:
Here is the actual text of MGL C. 278 S. 8A

General Law - Part IV, Title II, Chapter 278, Section 8A

malegislature.gov malegislature.gov
"Section 8A: Killing or injuring a person unlawfully in a dwelling; defense

Section 8A. In the prosecution of a person who is an occupant of a dwelling charged with killing or injuring one who was unlawfully in said dwelling, it shall be a defense that the occupant was in his dwelling at the time of the offense and that he acted in the reasonable belief that the person unlawfully in said dwelling was about to inflict great bodily injury or death upon said occupant or upon another person lawfully in said dwelling, and that said occupant used reasonable means to defend himself or such other person lawfully in said dwelling. There shall be no duty on said occupant to retreat from such person unlawfully in said dwelling."
Click to expand...
Note the highlighted words (mine). This is one way MA screws you if you're forced to defend yourself. Self-defense in MA is no guarantee against being arrested, charged and prosecuted. It's an allowed defense that one must assert and prove in court if and when one is prosecuted. It's entirely up to the police and the DA whether they wish to make you spend the time and money to defend yourself in court. Mr. Haynes now has that "opportunity" thanks to the Newton police and DA Marian Ryan.
 
kevin9 said:
Note the highlighted words (mine). This is one way MA screws you if you're forced to defend yourself. Self-defense in MA is no guarantee against being arrested, charged and prosecuted. It's an allowed defense that one must assert and prove in court if and when one is prosecuted. It's entirely up to the police and the DA whether they wish to make you spend the time and money to defend yourself in court. Mr. Haynes now has that "opportunity" thanks to the Newton police and DA Marian Ryan.
Click to expand...

There's also the question of how much force you used to meet the threat, even in your home. The fact that someone chased you into your house isn't necessarily enough to justify shooting them. Not in MA anyway.

So are they also going to charge the guy who caught a round with assault and battery?
 
Cardinal Ximinez said:
I'd just add it to one of the many reasons you should abandon MA.
Click to expand...
Many states have similar self defense laws. In general, using deadly force against an unarmed attacker is usually hard to legally justify. Don’t assume that if this happened in NH or TX that the shooter would not get charged.

Don’t get me wrong, I’m all up for abandoning MA — we are anxiously awaiting completion of our home in NH. I’m just saying that even in more self-defense friendly locations that using deadly force against an unarmed attacker is usually hard to legally justify.
 
Many people do not comprehend the very real risk of permanent disability or even death when two grown peop[e fight, particularly when one is on pavement bing pounded by the other. Skull fracture, subdural or subarachnoid hematoma, multiple facial bone lacerations and bone fractures are all very real possibilities. It's impossible to tell, but that gunshot may have saved him from permanent brain injury or death.

This is not a case of two people facing each other with fists raised. The victim was agressively tackled, on the ground, being beaten, and the situation did not even resemble mutual combat.

A big question is will the system consider his expressing a controversial opinion in public to be the cause of the attack and blame him for it? In MA, it just may.

The victim's ability to articulate that he knew this at the time of the shooting may be crucial to his defense. Admit he did not know that, and the court could rule that info inadmissible since it was not part of the defendant's mindset at the time of the shooting.

The general procedure in any shooting in MA is "Arrest the shooter unless (s)he is active or retired LE in which case the shootee is prosecuted". Bust em all and let the courts sort it out.

So are they also going to charge the guy who caught a round with assault and battery?
Click to expand...
There is a very real chance he will be offered immunity in exchange for his testimony against the other party.

As to other options - note how quickly this happened. This was not a dojo exercise where a defender at the ready is told to make his move as soon as the aggressor starts to run towards him. In training simulations where the defender know he is about to be attacked and is watching for the cue to act, getting pepper spray out in time and effectively deploying it would be very difficult.
 
Last edited:
A grown man (soy boyness aside) on top of another human can do serious injury to someone. People who have never been in a physical altercation may not recognize that and even people who have may downplay how much damage someone can do to another person.

Love Machine said:
M1911 is already the voice of reason here. And this is precisely why you need options other than a gun to respond to an assault.
Click to expand...
To what end?

I carry a pocket knife every time I leave the house. I carry my CCW almost every time I leave the house. Am I required to carry a taser and pepper spray as well?

This individual ran across a street to assault someone because of hate.
 
I think the point is that if you're skinning your smokewagon it better be because you've done the quick calculus in your head and decided that turning your life upside down in court and risking prison is still better than dying. If the conclusion you arrive at is that you're not sure then you need to keep it holstered and find another way to defend yourself.
 
Love Machine said:
M1911 is already the voice of reason here. And this is precisely why you need options other than a gun to respond to an assault.
Click to expand...
Yeah we should all carry rape whistles... f*** that stupid state that idiot who attacked the guy is lucky he's breathing.

He should've gotten a mag dump in the sternum.

If that guy gets charged self defense doesn't exist in mass... full stop

A 30 year old man in good shape attacking an older man like that in poor shape can go fatal in so many ways for the older guy.

Mix in the fact pony tail was committing a hate crime.

No non lethal is not an option there
 
JFR2 said:
But Hayes would’ve been arrested if he used a knife as a defense, too.
Click to expand...
Tyrannical government doesn't like the unwashed defending themselves.

Which is why there are dozens of us in this thread twisting ourselves into a pretzel explaining why this is justified.
 
not new guy said:
I think the point is that if you're skinning your smokewagon it better be because you've done the quick calculus in your head and decided that turning your life upside down in court and risking prison is still better than dying. If the conclusion you arrive at is that you're not sure then you need to keep it holstered and find another way to defend yourself.
Click to expand...
Ya right....that's if the next blow or throw to the ground by the aggressor doesn't break your neck or crack your skull.

Fvck that noise!!!! Shit like happens quickly and can be deadly in an instant. If I'm attacked, and especially if outnumbered, the shooting won't stop until the slide locks back, then it will be reloaded and made ready for the next go around.
 
paul73 said:
it is a direct opposite of the practical meaning of the jury instruction below.

"Second, that the defendant did not do everything reasonable in the circumstances to avoid physical combat before resorting to force;"

'everything reasonable .. to avoid combat' literally means to run away from your own house.
Click to expand...
That shouldn't surprise any of us. MA does not approve of self-protection. And DAs and judges in MA will do their best to twist their interpretation to convince a jury the exact opposite of what the plain language in MGL states. It is also the reason that people like myself and several others here would not be selected to serve on a jury in a case involving self-defense!

BTW, we can thank GOAL for C. 278 S. 8A as they had a big hand in creating that law back in the 1970s.
not new guy said:
So are they also going to charge the guy who caught a round with assault and battery?
Click to expand...
Fat chance of that!
 
Uzi2 said:
Ya right....that's if the next blow or throw to the ground by the aggressor doesn't break your neck or crack your skull.

Fvck that noise!!!! Shit like happens quickly and can be deadly in an instant. If I'm attacked, and especially if outnumbered, the shooting won't stop until the slide locks back, then it will be reloaded and made ready for the next go around.
Click to expand...

That all needs to go into your instant decision making.
 
M1911 said:
Many states have similar self defense laws. In general, using deadly force against an unarmed attacker is usually hard to legally justify. Don’t assume that if this happened in NH or TX that the shooter would not get charged.

Don’t get me wrong, I’m all up for abandoning MA — we are anxiously awaiting completion of our home in NH. I’m just saying that even in more self-defense friendly locations that using deadly force against an unarmed attacker is usually hard to legally justify.
Click to expand...
The problem isn't necessarily the laws. It's the application. You have a very steep hill to climb with MA juries, DAs, and judges in a state that loves to hate on the 2A and self-defense.

Just ask Trump. Developers and banks haggle over property values all day long, but in NY, they fined him millions for this very normal activity when the bank even made a profit.

The letter of the law might be quite reasonable. The people applying it may not.
 
M1911 said:
Many states have similar self defense laws. In general, using deadly force against an unarmed attacker is usually hard to legally justify.
Click to expand...

This is the part that is going to go against him. Unfortunately, even though he was most likely in fear for his life and bodily harm... the attacker was unarmed.

Of course, he didn't know that... and the attacked could have been pulling a knife to cut his throat or stab him in the heart, but I guess you have to be killed before you are allowed to fight back.
 
1sern said:
Newton? That liberal f***hole and its dirtbag moonbats need to ....... Stop Handgun Violence 🤣


www.linkedin.com

Stop Handgun Violence | LinkedIn

Stop Handgun Violence | 79 followers on LinkedIn. Working to end gun violence in Massachusetts and beyond. | Stop Handgun Violence is a non-profit organization committed to the prevention of gun violence through education, public awareness, effective law enforcement and common sense gun laws.
www.linkedin.com www.linkedin.com
Click to expand...
That is the city where jack @@s creem from right?
 
LuvDog said:
This is the part that is going to go against him. Unfortunately, even though he was most likely in fear for his life and bodily harm... the attacker was unarmed.
Click to expand...
Mr ponytail CHARGED at him and tackled him from behind and brought him to the ground while on top. He wasn't there to tickle him. Hands and feet are the most common weapon used in a deadly attack. That was an aggravated assault done with malice and intent to inflict bodily harm. The defense has a strong case and if Newton courts charge him, this will be appealed to higher courts for sure.
 

Similar threads

  • Poll Poll
Which gun to shoot for complete gun n00b?
2
Replies
56
Views
749
Cuz
Cuz
Chicopee woman’s son shot several times, fired back at shooter, police say
Replies
12
Views
480
HorizontalHunter
HorizontalHunter
Overheard at the airport
4 5 6
Replies
154
Views
3K
dcmdon
dcmdon
Shooting reported at Abundant Life Christian School in Madison, Wisconsin: Police
3 4 5
Replies
143
Views
4K
HARRYM
HARRYM
Any dealers still at the Mill
Replies
12
Views
687
drgrant
drgrant
Back
Top Bottom