Police respond to report of shooting at pro-Israeli protest in Newton

[deerdad]

I realize this is a different state but isn't this something like the Trayvon kid in Florida? Same situation with the attacker on top of the victim while on a solid surface.

 

[xero2099]

Indeed. However, there is exception if doing so would increase chance of harm to others if I read it correctly. So I think he has a good shoot...not saying they won't try to break him financially in the process

They will financially break him for daring to defend himself

 

[pewpewpew]

CCW subreddit (much more sane than the rest of ultra-lib reddit) has got discussion going on this story:


View: https://www.reddit.com/r/CCW/comments/1ffukc3/newton_ma_ccw_holder_defends_himself_against

 

[LuvDog]

Mr ponytail CHARGED at him and tackled him from behind and brought him to the ground while on top. He wasn't there to tickle him. Hands and feet are the most common weapon used in a deadly attack. That was an aggravated assault done with malice and intent to inflict bodily harm. The defense has a strong case and if Newton courts charge him, this will be appealed to higher courts for sure.

I agree, but the argument will be that ponytail was un-armed.

 

[drgrant]

If the same unprovoked tackle happened on a Newton Police officer, and that assaulted officer shoots 1 round in defense, what would happen to that cop? Would he be charged with A&B with deadly weapon? If not, why?

If the moonbatDA /ada is ideologically consistent they would also charge the hypothetical cop. However we both know that's not going to happen because they are cowards and know that they couldn't get away with shitting on a law enforcement officer WRT optics. So they stick to shitting on taxpayers with thrir virtue signaling bullshit instead.

I realize this is a different state but isn't this something like the Trayvon kid in Florida? Same situation with the attacker on top of the victim while on a solid surface.

No it's not. The shooter in this case was literally just standing around until the f***er charged him.

not at all like Zimm/Skittles where the guy was going around playing wacker mc fake cop.

 

[EMTDAD]

looking at one of the vids, I saw these guys on the overpass on the pike last evening.. I most've passed there about 5:45

 

[VigilantesLiberi]

This also made its way to twitter:


View: https://x.com/sentdefender/status/1834403152314896860

 

[nm1]

This one says he had Hayes in a headlock on the ground. Can’t quite tell from the video.


Massachusetts military veteran shoots pro-Palestine agitator

 

[Rob Boudrie]

Mr ponytail CHARGED at him and tackled him from behind and brought him to the ground while on top. He wasn't there to tickle him. Hands and feet are the most common weapon used in a deadly attack. That was an aggravated assault done with malice and intent to inflict bodily harm. The defense has a strong case and if Newton courts charge him, this will be appealed to higher courts for sure.

The system may actually conclude this was legitimate self defense and give him the opportunity to plead guitly in a no jail/prison time but felony record outcome.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

I realize this is a different state but isn't this something like the Trayvon kid in Florida? Same situation with the attacker on top of the victim while on a solid surface.

Two important differences:

1. White guy shooting black guy - created danger of public disorder if white guy is not charged.

2. Defender engaged the subject in a manner before the encounter that can be argued initiated the chain of events. Different than peacefully protesting.

 

[1sern]

I agree, but the argument will be that ponytail was un-armed.

Didn't even have his mask on correctly to protect him

 

[Uzi2]

The system may actually conclude this was legitimate self defense and give him the opportunity to plead guitly in a no jail/prison time but felony record outcome.

That's NOT a self-defense conclusion......, that's just replacing the physical attacker with an attack by the state culminating in a loss of reputation, potential future employment. loss of voting rights and right to exercise one's 2A rights.

That is just a "BIG FVCK YOU" by the state to the victim.

 

[Love Machine]

I'd just add it to one of the many reasons you should abandon MA.

The use of force pyramid is applicable everywhere. The one for the citizen is not the same as for a LEO and uses proportional force below deadly, instead of necessary. If you're under the impression that an unarmed ponytail charging a crowd of protesters would be a justified shooting in Texas, I have news for you.

 

[drgrant]

The use of force pyramid is applicable everywhere. The one for the citizen is not the same as for a LEO and uses proportional force below deadly, instead of necessary. If you're under the impression that an unarmed ponytail charging a crowd of protesters would be a justified shooting in Texas, I have news for you.

Lol.... it's full retard to assume that any normal state would handle this the way MA did.

 

[Toast]

The system may actually conclude this was legitimate self defense and give him the opportunity to plead guitly in a no jail/prison time but felony record outcome.

Ah, a typical Massachusetts "You used a gun so you'll never own one again" outcome. Of course, that only applies to legal gun owners.

 

[pastera]

We have a duty to retreat law in MA?

Mass is one of the worst - you need to assume risk in retreat if retreat lowers your risk of harm.

However it didn't look like the vet was in a condition to do much fast maneuvering so he really didn't have an avenue of retreat at any level of safety.

 

[Toast]

The use of force pyramid is applicable everywhere. The one for the citizen is not the same as for a LEO and uses proportional force below deadly, instead of necessary. If you're under the impression that an unarmed ponytail charging a crowd of protesters would be a justified shooting in Texas, I have news for you.

Charging? No.

Charging, leaping onto, taking to ground, and choking? Texas would give the shooter a medal.

Texas case in point: Dead guy was unarmed, but no charges filed. No Criminal Charges Against Texas Man Who Shot and Killed Girlfriend's Ex-Husband During Front Porch Custody Fight

Kyle Carruth attorney makes case for self-defense after deadly shooting of Chad Read

LUBBOCK, Texas — The attorney for William “Kyle” Carruth made a statement Wednesday in response to the release of video of a November 5 deadly shooting. Image of David Guinn from hurleyguinn.…

www.everythinglubbock.com

 

[pastera]

Hard to retreat when the guy tackles you.

That said, was there a clear threat of death and grave bodily harm?

Older, overweight vet?
If he has even 10% then he easily shows specific frailty.

 

[NHAtHeart]

From a Monday morning QB perspective though, I'd say the vet did everything right, he fired 1 shot to mitigate the threat, called off any additional attackers, rendered aid once the threat was neutralized and got the guy help as quickly as he could. Shit, even the po-po don't handle situations that well, they'll shoot a guy 12 times, then let him bleed out on the ground for 20mins waiting for EMS to get there.

 

[pastera]

What kind of unhinged motherf***er charges at people peacefully protesting?

Reset your logic - silence is violence crowd
They now believe if you don't actively amd vocally support their positions that in itself is violence and worthy of physical force.
By Any Means Necessary

 

[LuvDog]

From a Monday morning QB perspective though, I'd say the vet did everything right, he fired 1 shot to mitigate the threat, called off any additional attackers, rendered aid once the threat was neutralized and got the guy help as quickly as he could. Shit, even the po-po don't handle situations that well, they'll shoot a guy 12 times, then let him bleed out on the ground for 20mins waiting for EMS to get there.

I agree.

 

[Hogie1]

One thing to note, the guy didn't shoot until he was on the ground on his back. At that point there is no retreat and you have someone on top of you intent on harming you. I don't see any way this wins at trial other than the fact it's MA so it's about the same as a Trump trial in NYC, there is no jury of your peers there.

It shouldn't even go to trial. Dismiss that case with prejudice.

 

[pastera]

The Newton cop likely would have used other force before shooting him.

What force?
Pepper spray - once the guy was close enough to hit, he was going to fast for it to take effect before impact.

Taser - too much fail in tasers to deploy without a backup deadly force option at ready.

Not ever attack can or should be met with deadly force.

True - but we have zero information on the victim's individual health conditions.
As a vet he may have a service related disability that would likely be made worse by an impact with a running (yeah) impact with a 250lbs fat ass and the resultant ground strike.

 

[Palladin]

Man charged in shooting after being tackled at Newton pro-Israel rally due in court

A peaceful, pro-Israel rally turned violent in Newton, Massachusetts, Thursday. A man was shot after charging at pro-Israeli demonstrators at the intersection of Washington and Harvard streets, the Middlesex County District Attorney’s Office said, and the alleged shooter is expected to face a...

www.nbcboston.com

DA 'sorting it all out'

 

[pastera]

The question is: did your actions help precipitate the fight or not?

For example, suppose you are in a bar and a guy bumps into you spilling your drink. You turn around and yell at the guy. He yells back and pushes you. You push him back. He swings at you. You swing at him. He grabs a beer bottle by the neck, smashes it so he now has a sharp weapon, and you draw your gun and shoot him. A judge may well decide that that was mutual combat, not self defense, and that you are not allowed to claim self defense because you helped start that fight and escalate it.

What words were said by the shooter to ponytail boy prior to the attack? Did those words help instigate the fight?

If you start, or help start, a fight, you may not be allowed to claim self defense if you end up using deadly force.

The amount of fail in this hypothetical is too much to enumerate
Vet could have told suck him off like the good commie bitch he is - 1st ammendment.
Once the actual fat ass bitch started running that was an assault (place another in fear of physical harm) which he escalated to at least a battery by striking and tackling the vet.
If the vet can show a higher than usual expectation of harm then it's defendable eclscalation and lawful self defense.

 

[APFSDS]

2) Was the shooter in danger of death or grave bodily injury?

I have never had it happen in real life (thank god) but was the victim of many a "ground and pound" beat-down in FoF training and when I was doing martial arts. You can 100% die from this, and unless you are trained, fit and lucky it's damn near impossible to escape.

 

[pastera]

I am not sympathetic to the pro-Hamas sympathizers. Not at all.

But it seems to me that protests for or against supporting Israel have a higher than average likelihood of resulting in violence. Same with the BLM protests. I have no desire to be anywhere near those. If you decide to go, I strongly suggest that you bring along some less-lethal defense tool, like OC spray, and that if violence does break out that you use Nike-fu to GTFO.

And that's why they do it - the one sided propensity to initiate violence makes their side look highly supported by the public because no one wants to be attacked or persecuted for self defense.

 

[drgrant]

I find high pitched shrieking almost never helps the situation.

This reminds me of like that stupid broad in the McDonald's video where the dude was beating the ghetto chicks with the friolator rod I kind of wish he had taken that rod and gave the shrieking lady a couple of slaps too just to make her shut the f*** up....

 

[vicorjh]

Can't tell. Is the attacker wearing a neck brace?

Seems like there may be some history to look into.

edit: nevermind. It's a Covaids mask. Appropriate and not surprising.

 

[pastera]

"the incident was preceded by an argument"

that's protected 1A behavior on both sides, correct?

mere words are not an assault

They can be if the words would objectively cause a reasonable person to believe that the utterer was about to use physical force against them.