Practical Implications of H4885 for Purchasing and Possessing

Chappy7 said:
It's NOT a "database" it only "Records" sales.
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Don't be absurd. It absolutely is a database. You can look up information by seller or buyer or serial number or date or manufacturer or any other field. That's a database.

It's just not a registry.

But you're proving my point. There's 1,000 totally legal ways a gun could have been in Mass. on 8/1/24 and not show up in the FA10 system (database)
 
milktree said:
Don't be absurd. It absolutely is a database. You can look up information by seller or buyer or serial number or date or manufacturer or any other field. That's a database.

It's just not a registry.

But you're proving my point. There's 1,000 totally legal ways a gun could have been in Mass. on 8/1/24 and not show up in the FA10 system (database)
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No Sugar Honey Ice Tea. I'm only saying what was written into law by our "brilliant" elected officials.
 
milktree said:
There's 1,000 ways a gun could lawfully be in Mass. on 8/1/24 that have nothing to do with the FA10 database.
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Correct. Being right doesn’t mean you won’t go on the ride. It’s just one example. FFLs have records. If you’re in that kind of trouble, it’s not hard for someone to investigate.
 
TheMustangDad said:
So my question is for post 8/1/24 AW transaction’s. Can I still buy a new AR lower today that was in the state before 8/1/24? How do I know what I’m buying was here before 8/1? Is it a red flag if the FFL dealer won’t show me his book or offer any other proof? Would it be safer to purchase a fully assembled pre ‘94 or 2016 AR that’s pre banned and never have any issues with the evil features test etc or is it all just a moot point and a waste of money post 8/1?

I’m a newbie still and having a difficult time understanding all of these laws and I’m a paralegal. I’ve talked with a few attorneys and still can’t get a definitive answer. I have no risk tolerance whatsoever sorry I’d like to be able to sleep peacefully at night knowing that I won’t loose my firearms, have legal expenses, and ultimately loose my LTC. What do I buy that’s a safe bet and not a gamble?

So hypothetically if I missed the 8/1/24 boat and want to be completely compliant what do I buy post 8/1?

Is it the bullpup style Tavor X95 considered an AW? I'm trying to do some more research of my own. It's wicked confusing. It sounds like some say if it’s in the state prior to 8/1 they can still sell it but does that mean it is actually legal for me to own it assuming not having more than two evil features. Would I not be considered grandfathered in and be in trouble come October if the audit the FFL books?

Can I still legally buy and own today in MA a fully assembled AR like the Kel Tech RDB Defender AR 556, SIG MPX, SIG Spear, HK93, HK9? Would I be safer to get something else like bolt action like a Ruger Mini 14, M1A, S&W FPC or just a pump action shotgun? Is there a specific shotgun that’s still legal to buy that holds more than 5 rounds? I’m unsure if I’ve missed the last call to own an AR or not?

Thank you everyone!
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Coming back to this question, what semiauto rifles can you safely buy post 8/1 (as in, in the state post 8/1)?

I see lots of shops are selling mini-14s. Can we be fairly confident those are going to be legal for the foreseeable future because they're on the Appendix A list:


I also see guns like the Kel-Tec RDB-S and the CMMG BR4 being sold, presumably due to lack of "evil features" and not being copies or duplicates, although I suppose those could be added to the "ASW roster" at any point and become illegal. Is the mini-14 a special case because it's specifically exempt through its inclusion on the Appendix A list, or could it get rostered just as easily?

I know no one here has a crystal ball but would like to get something in 556 that's not going to be illegal in a few months.
 
Scipio said:
Coming back to this question, what semiauto rifles can you safely buy post 8/1 (as in, in the state post 8/1)?

I see lots of shops are selling mini-14s. Can we be fairly confident those are going to be legal for the foreseeable future because they're on the Appendix A list:


I also see guns like the Kel-Tec RDB-S and the CMMG BR4 being sold, presumably due to lack of "evil features" and not being copies or duplicates, although I suppose those could be added to the "ASW roster" at any point and become illegal. Is the mini-14 a special case because it's specifically exempt through its inclusion on the Appendix A list, or could it get rostered just as easily?

I know no one here has a crystal ball but would like to get something in 556 that's not going to be illegal in a few months.
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You have to evaluate each gun.

RDB w/o pistol grip and pin/weld of muzzle device would be good.
CMMG BR4 with pin/weld of muzzle device would be good
There are some Ruger PC Carbines w/o pistol grips that are fine. some from the factory, some once you pin/weld
The appendix covers mini-14 as it was in 1993 so a bunch of the newer ones are questionable as they are not the same configuration. "as they were manufactured on October 1, 1993" us the language that limits which models of mini-14
SIG MCX Regulator with pin/weld of muzzle device would be good.

There are others. Its just a matter of work and evaluation
 
CrackPot said:
You have to evaluate each gun.

RDB w/o pistol grip and pin/weld of muzzle device would be good.
CMMG BR4 with pin/weld of muzzle device would be good
There are some Ruger PC Carbines w/o pistol grips that are fine. some from the factory, some once you pin/weld
The appendix covers mini-14 as it was in 1993 so a bunch of the newer ones are questionable as they are not the same configuration. "as they were manufactured on October 1, 1993" us the language that limits which models of mini-14
SIG MCX Regulator with pin/weld of muzzle device would be good.

There are others. Its just a matter of work and evaluation
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Very helpful, thanks. In this case, I would be looking at the regular 5-round Ruger Mini-14 Ranch.

Does the status of any of the guns you mentioned change in October?
 
Scipio said:
Very helpful, thanks. In this case, I would be looking at the regular 5-round Ruger Mini-14 Ranch.

Does the status of any of the guns you mentioned change in October?
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You cant buy any long guns come 10/23 because none are on the roster. We are discussing guns that can be bought now, post 8/1 that remain legal to own come 10/23.
 
CrackPot said:
You have to evaluate each gun.

RDB w/o pistol grip and pin/weld of muzzle device would be good.
CMMG BR4 with pin/weld of muzzle device would be good
There are some Ruger PC Carbines w/o pistol grips that are fine. some from the factory, some once you pin/weld
The appendix covers mini-14 as it was in 1993 so a bunch of the newer ones are questionable as they are not the same configuration. "as they were manufactured on October 1, 1993" us the language that limits which models of mini-14
SIG MCX Regulator with pin/weld of muzzle device would be good.

There are others. Its just a matter of work and evaluation
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RDBC hunter I presume.


IMG_0120.jpeg
 
Scipio said:
Oh c'mon guys, it's not that bad. At least it takes AR mags. Right? Guys?...

Anyway, yeah that's pretty much what I had in mind. That or the Mini-14, although I don't love the propriety 5-round mags it uses.
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5 rd mags are standard because the 6th rd starts drifting 😁

Just kidding as I like the mini 14 as a blued steel and wood semiauto. Mine is accurate enough for inside 100 yds with the peep sights.
 
DJBrad said:
5 rd mags are standard because the 6th rd starts drifting 😁

Just kidding as I like the mini 14 as a blued steel and wood semiauto. Mine is accurate enough for inside 100 yds with the peep sights.
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Weren’t these the rifles that had accuracy problems due to barrel whip? Or did that get straightened out?
 
Rockrivr1 said:
Weren’t these the rifles that had accuracy problems due to barrel whip? Or did that get straightened out?
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The barrel whip was an issue that seemed to be after the bullet already left the barrel as I remember it. I actually had my 584 replaced by Ruger with a partial explanation of the issue (I was having erratic ejection patterns). Correspondence of emails below back in 2019. For the current retail price of over $1200 for new Minis I don’t think I would buy one.


Good Afternoon,

I am emailing you in regards to the Mini 14 serial number 584-***** that was sent in for services. The technician has evaluated the firearm and would like to offer to replace the Mini with the same model at no charge. Please note if you accept this offer the original firearm will be scrapped here at the factory and the replacement will have to be shipped to a dealer of your choice. Please contact myself at your earliest opportunity with the acceptance or decline of this offer.



Good Morning,

I received your voice mail and I wanted to reach out to you, unfortunately our phones are not working this morning. I pulled up the notes in my system as to what the technician has found to have them make this call with replacing the firearm. There was not a lot of information in the system but they did note the extractor was hitting the roof and there was issues with the hammer and bolt. I am sorry I do not have more information than this. If you would like to move forward with the replacement please provide me with the dealer you would like to have the new firearm shipped to.
 
I’m still not sure how this law affects any handgun which is attached to a brace system like the flux or rt after 10/23 since a handgun (soon to be a firearm) is not an ASF in its current state. The handgun is a firearm and not an ASF but turning it into an ASF after 10/23 seems more complicated to me than just building up an AR pistol from a reciever or MP5 clone pistol owned on 8/1. Maybe I’m a little retarded tnite.
 
DJBrad said:
I’m still not sure how this law affects any handgun which is attached to a brace system like the flux or rt after 10/23 since a handgun (soon to be a firearm) is not an ASF in its current state. The handgun is a firearm and not an ASF but turning it into an ASF after 10/23 seems more complicated to me than just building up an AR pistol from a reciever or MP5 clone pistol owned on 8/1. Maybe I’m a little retarded tnite.
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The Flux is under 50 oz, so we throw that out.

It has the main mag inside the pistol grip.

Those two toss out the ASF designation

It is not designed to be fired from the shoulder.

I would build one with a 8/1 or earlier FCU juuuuusut incase.
 
chris_1001 said:
The Flux is under 50 oz, so we throw that out.

It has the main mag inside the pistol grip.

Those two toss out the ASF designation

It is not designed to be fired from the shoulder.

I would build one with a 8/1 or earlier FCU juuuuusut incase.
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I get all that except the fcu statement. Let’s throw Sigs out for a second and just consider every other handgun you own that you wanna put a brace on after 10/23.

What do you do with your G19 owned from a few years ago if you haven’t bought the Flux yet and decide to order one after 10/23? Does this give you peaceful sleep at night? Maybe this was never a thing except for the 50oz rule…so carry on?
 
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DJBrad said:
I get all that except the fcu statement. Let’s throw Sigs out for a second and just consider every other handgun you own that you wanna put a brace on after 10/23.

What do you do with your G19 owned from a few years ago if you haven’t bought the Flux yet and decide to order one after 10/23? Does this give you peaceful sleep at night? Maybe this was never a thing except for the 50oz rule…so carry on?
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I do not think you need an on or pre 8/1 FCU as its under 50oz, so it does not run afoul of the Assault Weapon Ban. I'm just adding that a s bonus...

I could do a Micro Roni, glue a pistol brace on a G19 or something else. The Flux is just a chassis and not a gun. So it is the equivalent of putting a brace on any pistol.

Again, I'm just doing a pre 8/1 FCU because I can...
 
chris_1001 said:
The Flux is under 50 oz, so we throw that out.

It has the main mag inside the pistol grip.

Those two toss out the ASF designation

It is not designed to be fired from the shoulder.

I would build one with a 8/1 or earlier FCU juuuuusut incase.
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151 (b) a semiautomatic pistol with the capacity to accept a detachable feeding device and includes at least 2 of the following features:
  • (i) the capacity to accept a feeding device that attaches to the pistol outside of the pistol grip;
    (ii) a second handgrip or a protruding grip that can be held by the non-trigger hand;
    (iii) a threaded barrel capable of accepting a flash suppressor, forward handgrip or silencer; or
    (iv) a shroud that encircles either all or part of the barrel designed to shield the bearer’s hand from heat, excluding a slide that encloses the barrel
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While we may think that the word accept in clause (i) means 'feed from', that isn't entirely clear since the gin does "accept" a magazine bit for the purpose of storage.

That's one that would need to be ironed out in the courts

And for the Flux the second mag well is highly likely to be considered a second handgrip per clause (ii)
 
pastera said:
While we may think that the word accept in clause (i) means 'feed from', that isn't entirely clear since the gin does "accept" a magazine bit for the purpose of storage.

That's one that would need to be ironed out in the courts

And for the Flux the second mag well is highly likely to be considered a second handgrip per clause (ii)
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You do have some good points..
 
DJBrad said:
I get all that except the fcu statement. Let’s throw Sigs out for a second and just consider every other handgun you own that you wanna put a brace on after 10/23.

What do you do with your G19 owned from a few years ago if you haven’t bought the Flux yet and decide to order one after 10/23? Does this give you peaceful sleep at night? Maybe this was never a thing except for the 50oz rule…so carry on?
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Own an Englis and a Mauser that comes with wood holster that also seconds as a stock/brace for the gun. Uncomfortable as hell to shoot if you have longer arms. Wouldn't want to do that with any of my handguns on purpose, that is for sure.
 
Rockrivr1 said:
Own an Englis and a Mauser that comes with wood holster that also seconds as a stock/brace for the gun. Uncomfortable as hell to shoot if you have longer arms. Wouldn't want to do that with any of my handguns on purpose, that is for sure.
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Surely. I just need one brace for shits and giggles. The recoil tactical one is my choice.
 

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