Preban SBR

[Rob Boudrie]

The finer points of the MA AW ban are largely untested since prosecutions of LTC holders who do not have any other issues are exceeding rare if they happen at all.

This is quite different from CA where AW ban violations by legal gun owners are aggressively prosecuted. One DA even got a conviction for a legal weapon, and successfully opposed an appeal because it was filed too late (the fact that it was clear the SKS was not an AW did not dissuade the DA from working to make sure the conviction stuck)

 

[bigblue]

This is a hole in the law which is why it's a grey area just like a modern 3Gun shotty that holds 9+1 shells. Both have been batted around here for years and there are no definitive answers despite what nutsak would have you believe. As Rob stated: It simply hasn't been tested and if you are being charged with AWB violations then there are likely larger charges involved.. This is a matter of risk tolerance as I have stated all along.

 

[browncoat]

during the fed awb colt could not make a sbr with more than two of the features. Ma did not sunset the awb. a six year old could concict you in 5 minutes in court by having you read your form 1. type of firearm to be made " short barrel rifle" then show the jury your sbr. do you think they will think it is not a rifle? if you say it's a firearm which you claim is not a rifle. than it must be a pistol and still subject to the awb. in section 121 by defineing what is not a firearm, it states that it must look like pistol,short barrel rifle or short barrel shotgun. there in writing is the Ma definition of a sbr! and if you do not believe this please become the test case.

This is why the issue is gray. Suppose I have an 18" barrel on my post 94 AR, and I have a bayonet lug, a collapsing stock, and a flash hider. It is unlikely that I will ever get in trouble. AWB convictions just haven't happened independent of other stuff. It really probably doesn't matter how long your barrel is - if you keep your nose clean you probably won't get in trouble. That's why we don't have case law for it. Now, if you do this with an 18" barrel, you are clearly committing a felony - but it doesn't seem like one that is likely to get you in hot water.

 

[Stryker]

This is why the issue is gray. Suppose I have an 18" barrel on my post 94 AR, and I have a bayonet lug, a collapsing stock, and a flash hider. It is unlikely that I will ever get in trouble. AWB convictions just haven't happened independent of other stuff. It really probably doesn't matter how long your barrel is - if you keep your nose clean you probably won't get in trouble. That's why we don't have case law for it. Now, if you do this with an 18" barrel, you are clearly committing a felony - but it doesn't seem like one that is likely to get you in hot water.

The one place I can see getting potentially jammed up is a home defense situation where more likely than not the local PD will confiscate your SBR - some risk there of a DA going after you for potential AWB violations. Or maybe I am overthinking it...

 

[bigblue]

The one place I can see getting potentially jammed up is a home defense situation where more likely than not the local PD will confiscate your SBR - some risk there of a DA going after you for potential AWB violations. Or maybe I am overthinking it...

I thought your SBR fell off the boat last summer?

 

[Len-2A Training]

The one place I can see getting potentially jammed up is a home defense situation where more likely than not the local PD will confiscate your SBR - some risk there of a DA going after you for potential AWB violations. Or maybe I am overthinking it...

Anytime you use a gun for self-defense it is SOP to suspend your LTC during the investigation and the law then requires that they confiscate ALL the guns/ammo/mags in the residence. Before giving anything back they will look with a fine tooth comb to see if any AWs or post-ban (maybe) mags exist and most probably throw you under the bus if that is the case. They did it to a cop after a 209A was lifted, no reason they won't do that to the unwashed.

 

[MAJoe]

Anytime you use a gun for self-defense it is SOP to suspend your LTC during the investigation and the law then requires that they confiscate ALL the guns/ammo/mags in the residence. Before giving anything back they will look with a fine tooth comb to see if any AWs or post-ban (maybe) mags exist and most probably throw you under the bus if that is the case. They did it to a cop after a 209A was lifted, no reason they won't do that to the unwashed.

Yep.

I look at the AWB similar to automotive laws. Your car is legal, but you don't run a front plate. That gives PC in MA to stop your vehicle. Now that you're stopped... Usually a front plate ticket is an add-on since they'll find other things. It was just the easiest way to stop you.

Say you're at the range and a cop sees you adjust the stock. Then sees you load up a 30 round magazine. If he asked and they're post ban, I'd rather not give a reason to have things confiscated, further investigation/warrants, etc. I like to shoot/drive without worry.

Hooray risk tolerance.

 

[turbo38gn]

Anytime you use a gun for self-defense it is SOP to suspend your LTC during the investigation and the law then requires that they confiscate ALL the guns/ammo/mags in the residence. Before giving anything back they will look with a fine tooth comb to see if any AWs or post-ban (maybe) mags exist and most probably throw you under the bus if that is the case. They did it to a cop after a 209A was lifted, no reason they won't do that to the unwashed.

Len.. you are dead nuts right on the mark here. I can say first hand, a friend recently had a situation where he pulled his pistol out of his holster during a physical confrontation.. When it was all said and done.... the cops were at his house within 2-3 days confiscating everything.. just like you said. They ran every serial number, checked every magazine, took all his ammo. Several issues popped up with him having dual residency in Ma and RI, where he had several weapons from RI at his home in Ma.... he is up shits creek and I fear to have to say, he will be lucky to stay out of jail when it is all done.. He is a good guy, with no record and a life long gun enthusiast, the least he can look forward to is his lifelong collection is gone, and he will spend a fortune to defend himself..

 

[dcmdon]

Yep.

I look at the AWB similar to automotive laws. Your car is legal, but you don't run a front plate. That gives PC in MA to stop your vehicle. Now that you're stopped... Usually a front plate ticket is an add-on since they'll find other things. It was just the easiest way to stop you.

Say you're at the range and a cop sees you adjust the stock. Then sees you load up a 30 round magazine. If he asked and they're post ban, I'd rather not give a reason to have things confiscated, further investigation/warrants, etc. I like to shoot/drive without worry.

Hooray risk tolerance.

Joe,

I agree with your concept. But your example is completely unrealistic. I have all kinds of (legal) firearms that are not AWB compliant and have never in 20+ years been approached by a cop, or anyone else like that for that reason. I've had guys start up a conversation at the range and then mention in passing that they are a cop. At no point have they ever even commented on features that would normally not be legal. At no point have I ever been asked to show a firearm was compliant or show credentials that would make it legal for me to possess non-compliant firearms.

A more realistic scenario is that you get into a car accident on the way home from the range. While you are riding in an ambuance, the cops take your guns for "safe keeping", and then "out of an abundance of caution". Go through everything with a fine toothed comb.

Don

 

[MAJoe]

Joe,

I agree with your concept. But your example is completely unrealistic. I have all kinds of (legal) firearms that are not AWB compliant and have never in 20+ years been approached by a cop, or anyone else for that reason. I've had guys start up a conversation at the range and then mention in passing that they are a cop. At no point have they ever even commented on features that would normally not be legal. At no point have I ever been asked to show a firearm was compliant or show credentials that would make it legal for me to possess non-compliant firearms.

A more realistic scenario is that you get into a car accident on the way home from the range. While you are riding in an ambuance, the cops take your guns for "safe keeping", and then "out of an abundance of caution". Go through everything with a fine toothed comb.

Don

Appreciate the post Don and agreed. Re-read what I wrote and yeah... Bad example.

 

[one-eyed Jack]

I my 34 years as a FFL I have never had anyone, anywhere question the ownership or legality of any machine gun, suppressor, SBS, pen gun or whatever I was shooting. Look at the $$ I could have saved by not buying all those licenses over the years. Jack.

 

[dcmdon]

I my 34 years as a FFL I have never had anyone, anywhere question the ownership or legality of any machine gun, suppressor, SBS, pen gun or whatever I was shooting. Look at the $$ I could have saved by not buying all those licenses over the years. Jack.

That's funny.

The only time I've had feedback like that was at Mass Rifle by some ignorant, unskilled (wow, I think teacupping went out in the 70s) shooter who told me "that's illegal". I don't remember what I was shooting.

But never any LEO or anything like that.

While taking a carbine class at Weaponcraft in Maine, the instructor told all of us that if we were using a SBR, we had better have our 5320s with us. He said the ATF had shown up there on more than one occasion to check the out of state students SBRs' 5320s.

 

[fshalor]

Some people have better luck. I got yelled at. Literally yelled at for a ruger mk3 hunter I moved to MA with. The Fudd was livid. Then he saw a glock 26 and looked like he needed new underwear.

Said he was calling his cousin a cop. I wished him a good day and packed up.

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