Rant: the move out of Mass post

[strangenh]

I have to completely agree with Mike about overall tax burden and rates also reflecting the variability in school quality. The property tax rates here in Hillsborough co. are comparable to northern IL (Cook and Lake cos., suburbs of Chicago), which have sales and income tax on top of it all. Property tax rate in Amherst, NH is higher than many around here at a total of 19.47, but almost 14 of those points are school budget. On the tax burden front, overall, I do much better back here than I did in IL, and am very glad to be out of that hellhole.

 

[ScottS]

My personal opinion (and I am no accountant by any means), is that Mass has all the taxes that NH has a vice-versa. The diff is that we have to pay for it all in a lump. Mass folks get a little scraped off each time they buy something.

I guess you can have any personal opinion you want, but that is just factually incorrect. NH has the second lowest total tax burden in the US, behind only AK, in the latest CNN/Money Magazine rankings. I'm sorry, but there is no NH "vice-versa" for the majority of the taxes MA residents pay. And, oh by the way, property tax is deductible on your federal return, so even that sting is mitigated somewhat.

 

[Ray P]

You in New Mexico now Ray?

Hi, Derek! Yep, we moved to Clovis NM in Sept, with a goal of retiring to Lincoln County sometime in the next 4-6 years.

It is very nice to live in a pro-gun state. Maine wasn't bad, but the anti-gunners have been quietly gaining political strength, especially in the southern counties like York. The change showed in the number of active anti-gunners elected to state government two years ago, and the anti-gun bills being proposed in the state legislature.

There are some gun-related peculiarities here in New Mexico; Concealed carry permits are shall-issue, but a state-specific course is required. The NRA class isn't accepted, and there is no training exemption for veterans. Oh, and the permits are issued by type for a range of calibers. For example, if you demonstrate adequate proficiency with revolvers in 22lr and .357mag, but you didn't bring an auto in any caliber, (you gotta bring your own); your permit to carry will be limited to revolvers only in calibers between 22LR and 357M.

Think I'll shoot for 22LR - 44M in revolver, and 22lr -45acp in pistol.

As for hunting, my close-in brush guns from ME aren't ideal for the open terrain out here, but I will just have to shop some more. Gun stores are plentiful, and the local Walmart, Ace Hardware and Big-5 all carry guns and ammo. (Locals are shocked when I tell them the hardware stores in southern Maine don't sell ammo, much less guns.) I already miss access to KTP, but I do have an FFL out here that will accept guns for me if something incredible shows up on the used gun web-site. Also, there is a Gander Mountain store in Lubbock TX, and a place called Peterson's in Albuquerque, so supplies are handy. Out here, anything within 100 miles is nearby.

There is a formal 300-yd rifle range in town, multiple archery ranges, and many informal places to shoot right off the road. I've introduced two transplanted Chicagoans to pistol-shooting, and they have set up a nice little range in an arroyo on their back 40.

Clovis has its own IDPA group (CASS & SCA, too!), so I will be able to maintain pistol skills. I'll see if I can start some steel plate/action pistol, as I prefer it to IDPA.

The job is also good; I'm assisting in the infrastructure adds/alterations needed to change the local air force base (Cannon AFB) from an F16 fighter base to a special ops training base.
There will be plenty of Marines and Navy operators out here soon!

I consider this post to be "on-topic", as it describes the state of gun rights in an area other than MA

 

[Ray P]

StrangeNH: Even MA would be better than IL!!!! Did you burn your FOID card yet?

Ray
(Once from DuPage Co, and later Peoria Co. IL)

 

[strangenh]

StrangeNH: Even MA would be better than IL!!!!

Yep. Gun law-wise, politically, corruption-wise, and soon tax-wise.

Did you burn your FOID card yet?

Hmm. You know, I didn't. It's of no use to a non-resident, so I suppose I should. Thing is, I don't want to ruin my wood stove with that filth.

 

[Admin]

That's awesome Ray!

 

[the_doctor]

I guess you can have any personal opinion you want, but that is just factually incorrect. NH has the second lowest total tax burden in the US, behind only AK, in the latest CNN/Money Magazine rankings. I'm sorry, but there is no NH "vice-versa" for the majority of the taxes MA residents pay. And, oh by the way, property tax is deductible on your federal return, so even that sting is mitigated somewhat.

It is horrible for someone that incorporates and tries to hire two or three people. The taxes in NH on small business pass throughs are extraordinate in comparison to Massachusetts. NH is loaded with excise taxes and high fees. I disagree with CNN/Money. You should see the rating about the ease overall tax compliance in one of the magazines. NH and MA don't rank very well in comparison to many states regarding the administration of tax collection.

 

[Ray P]

Yep. Gun law-wise, politically, corruption-wise, and soon tax-wise.
Hmm. You know, I didn't. It's of no use to a non-resident, so I suppose I should. Thing is, I don't want to ruin my wood stove with that filth.

+1! Think I kept mine as a reminder not to go back.

 

[Nickle]

ME, NH VT; it really doesn't matter, they are all too leberal and anti-gun.

You are joking, right?

The ONLY state that has NEVER required a permit for CCW being Anti-Gun?

Only thing we CAN'T have in VT is a silencer, and that's a Fish and Game law, because too many deer jackers would have them.

We are too Liberal, though, but it seems to me our Governor is a Republican, and NM has a Democrat. You will catch up. I used to live down that way (West Texas), and I've seen it slowly turn to the left.

 

[mikem317]

I didn't read all the posts, but I'd love to move out. The power should be at the state level. If you don't like it, then you can move to another jurisdiction. New Hampshire is just a few miles north.

IMHO, I'd rather pay hundreds of dollars in property taxes in New Hampshire than give the People's Republic of Massachusetts another dime for any tax that they impose.

 

[Ray P]

You are joking, right?

The ONLY state that has NEVER required a permit for CCW being Anti-Gun?

Only thing we CAN'T have in VT is a silencer, and that's a Fish and Game law, because too many deer jackers would have them.

We are too Liberal, though, but it seems to me our Governor is a Republican, and NM has a Democrat. You will catch up. I used to live down that way (West Texas), and I've seen it slowly turn to the left.

Brady Ranks VT with ME & NH on their gun report card; all three hold a D- rating, same as TX. Compare them to to NM's F rating, and MA's A-. But you are correct, Nickle. I should have left VT out of my comment. I don't know how it compares to ME or NH in terms of elected liberals.

After living in WA, UT, and NM, I do know there is a world of difference between western state Democrats and New England Republicans. I've been looking for the old NRA politician report cards but I don't find it available on line. Have they stopped issuing rankings? Even without a rating per se, the NRA seems to hold Richardson, a Democrat, in pretty high regard. Probably much higher regard than Mitt Romney during his tenure as MA governor.

 

[ScottS]

Brady Ranks VT with ME & NH on their gun report card; all three hold a D- rating, same as TX. Compare them to to NM's F rating, and MA's A-. But you are correct, Nickle. I should have left VT out of my comment. I don't know how it compares to ME or NH in terms of elected liberals.

I'll match NH's gun laws against NM's any day.

You seem to be speaking with great authority on a subject you, by your own admission, have little knowledge of.

 

[drgrant]

Brady Ranks VT with ME & NH on their gun report card; all three hold a D- rating, same as TX. Compare them to to NM's F rating, and MA's A-.

I'm actually surprised that VT doesn't get like an "F-" rating
from them... aside from the supressor ban, VT is about as close
as you're going to get in the US for "2nd amendment
compliance".

-Mike

 

[Ray P]

I'll match NH's gun laws against NM's any day.

You seem to be speaking with great authority on a subject you, by your own admission, have little knowledge of.

I admitted a lack of knowledge on VT. I've had a non-resident NH CWL for last 6 years, and a resident ME license for the last 10. I've been tracking NH gun laws because they did impact my NH license.

As for how the laws stack up...

For a line-by-line comparison on what constitutes a D, F, or A rating, check the brady site. It always a good idea to see how your opponent views things.

But in case you don't have time to check,

GRADING CRITERIA
Each state was carefully rated on seven types of legislation that protect children from gun violence, with extra credit or demerits awarded for additional relevant legislation.

Juvenile Possession of Guns - Is it illegal for a child to possess a gun without supervision?
Sale/Transfer of Guns to Juveniles - Is it illegal to sell a gun to a child?
Safe Storage and Gun Owner Accountability - Are gun owners held responsible for leaving loaded guns easily accessible to children?
Childproof Guns and Gun Design Safety - Are guns required to have child-safety locks, loaded-chamber indicators and other childproof designs? Are there restrictions on unsafe Saturday night specials?
Preemption - Do cities and counties have authority to enact local gun laws?
Secondary "Private" Gun Sale Background Checks - Are background checks required at gun shows and between "private" parties?
Carrying Concealed Weapons (CCW) - Is it legal to carry concealed handguns in public?

..

NH has a Child Access Prevention Law, and a Juvenile Sale/Transfer Law.

NM has a Juvenile Sale/Transfer Law, but no Child Access Prevention Law. Also, NM received extra demerits for passing a law to allow CCW reciprocity, lower age, and delete much of training requirements to get a permit.

Note: Per the brady site, the info is based on a 2005 survey, and states are adjusted individually as the laws change. Per their last press release, neither NM or NH had recent significant changes in the law that would require a grade change.

Remember: If Brady assigns an "F", I read that as an "A" for gun owners. By that reversal, NH's D- becomes a B+.

 

[Nickle]

VT got the D- rating from Brady over a couple of really stupid issues that actually have little to no bearing on reality.

Our politicians up here may be Liberal, but will only go so far on gun issues, excepot for Pat Leahy. They're all afraid that they will lose their next reelection in a landslide over gun issues (Leahy thinks he is only so vulnerable, though). See, many of our Liberals up here are gun owners themselves.

 

[gene]

I'll match NH's gun laws against NM's any day.

You seem to be speaking with great authority on a subject you, by your own admission, have little knowledge of.

Just read this morning that Arizona is now talking about banning lead ammo like California so they are making their way West to East.

 

[Admin]

Just read this morning that Arizona is now talking about banning lead ammo like California so they are making their way West to East.

Slippery slope. [sad2]

 

[ScottS]

I admitted a lack of knowledge on VT. I've had a non-resident NH CWL for last 6 years, and a resident ME license for the last 10. I've been tracking NH gun laws because they did impact my NH license.

As for how the laws stack up...

For a line-by-line comparison on what constitutes a D, F, or A rating, check the brady site. It always a good idea to see how your opponent views things.

But in case you don't have time to check,
..

NH has a Child Access Prevention Law, and a Juvenile Sale/Transfer Law.

NM has a Juvenile Sale/Transfer Law, but no Child Access Prevention Law. Also, NM received extra demerits for passing a law to allow CCW reciprocity, lower age, and delete much of training requirements to get a permit.

Note: Per the brady site, the info is based on a 2005 survey, and states are adjusted individually as the laws change. Per their last press release, neither NM or NH had recent significant changes in the law that would require a grade change.

Remember: If Brady assigns an "F", I read that as an "A" for gun owners. By that reversal, NH's D- becomes a B+.

Much as I respect the Brady Bunch's interpretation of state laws ...I have no interest in getting into a pissing contest, but NH's P&R License (commonly incorrectly referred to as a "CCW" or "CWL") requires a one-page application turned into the local Chief of Police, has no training requirement, no fingerprinting, is good for any caliber Pistol or Revolver I choose to carry, and as many of them I choose to carry, costs $10 for four years, takes no more than 14 days to issue, and our "list of prohibited places" is exactly one: Courthouses.

NM, by contrast, charges $100 (plus "reasonable fingerprinting fees"); requires training, both initial and mid-license refresher, from a "DPS Approved" instructor; requires fingerprinting and pictures; limits the caliber of weapon carried based on the mandated training; prohibits carrying a BUG; has no non-resident licensing; can take up to 30 daysfollowing the background check; prohibited places include liquor establishments, Schools, Universities, Preschools, Courts, Public buses(?), State parks, and posted property.

I guess I'm feeling pretty good about NH's "D-", and I'm guessing many of the MA residents living in Western MA or other "green" towns in MA are feeling pretty good as well.

Moral of the story/how this relates to the topic? Nobody likes being told "how it is" in their state, or have the area painted with a broad, inaccurate brush.

 

[dwarven1]

NM, by contrast, charges $100 (plus "reasonable fingerprinting fees"); requires training, both initial and mid-license refresher, from a "DPS Approved" instructor; requires fingerprinting and pictures; limits the caliber of weapon carried based on the mandated training; prohibits carrying a BUG; has no non-resident licensing; can take up to 30 days; prohibited places include liquor establishments, Schools, Universities, Preschools, Courts, Public buses(?), State parks, and posted property.

That's weird... This must be a recent CCL law; most of the recent ones got loaded down with all kinds of exemptions. [sad2]

 

[ScottS]

That's weird... This must be a recent CCL law; most of the recent ones got loaded down with all kinds of exemptions. [sad2]

I agree.

NMSA 29-19-6.C.
A concealed handgun license issued by the department shall include:
(1) a color photograph of the licensee; (2) the licensee’s name, address and date of birth; (3) the expiration date of the concealed handgun license; and (4) the category and the largest caliber of handgun that the licensee is licensed to carry, with a statement that the licensee is licensed to carry smaller caliber handguns but shall carry only one concealed handgun at any given time.

 

[PatMcD]

...I have no interest in getting into a pissing contest, but NH's P&R License ......................

Sounds like that is what is starting to happen.

Can we all agree that the three Northernmost New England states are all equally pretty good when it comes to gun laws?

 

[Ray P]

Can we all agree that the three Northernmost New England states are all equally pretty good when it comes to gun laws?

The laws on the books in ME, & NH are good as they stand now. And gun owners have been successful in fighting off attempts to weaken gun rights. (Thanks to GOA, GONH, and many local groups).

But have you seen the legislative attempts to confiscate guns in domestic disputes, restrict/tighten handgun training requirements, reinact the AWB, etc? The liberal anti-gunners still exist in NE, and I perceive them as gaining strength. While the laws haven't changed much yet, I believe the growing liberal political body will soon reach the critical mass needed for them to succeed in getting their anti-gun bills enacted.

It seems that every year in ME & NH, bills are proposed that would cause real harm to gun owners. The good news is that they all eventually died.

Within NM, the only bills I found in the last four years increased the penalties for discharging a firearm while committing a felony in a school zone, lowered the minimum age for a concealed firearm permit from 25 to 21, and deleted gender-specific terms from the concealed weapons act. (2005 HB 908 )

Check the following:
Maine bill search:
http://janus.state.me.us/legis/LawMakerWeb/advancedsearch.asp

NH bill search:
http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/index/

NM Key word bill search: (use adobe search function for key words)
http://legis.state.nm.us/lcs/BillFinderSubject.asphttp://legis.state.nm.us:8080/lcsbillsearch/

The keywords I used were handgun, assault, domestic, and firearm.
YRMV.

Yes, ScottS is correct that the NM concealed handgun license is more restrictive than NH. But the cost is on par ($60 fee + $60 training cost), to what I now need to pay for a non-resident permit from ME. (Didn't ME just pass a few administrative restrictions on their permit process?) Don't know that I've ever carried more than one concealed firearm at a time.

All told, my decision to leave NE was based, in part, on a real belief that my gun rights were threatened by a growing body of liberal democrat politicians that have steadily replaced the body of pro-gun legislators in the last few years. Maybe this was only happening in Maine.

 

[drgrant]

It seems that every year in ME & NH, bills are proposed that would cause real harm to gun owners. The good news is that they all eventually died.
.

IMO the real reason that antis don't take hold in the other states
is, in VT, NH, ME... it appears to me that enough people show
up at hearings and such that actually bother to go; eg, for example,
someone in NH was trying to mess with the concealed
weapon regs there, and the hearings were flooded with people...
this is the kind of thing that is KEY to keeping the antis at
bay. Gun control is a political loser of an issue, and usually
when it passes it has -barely- enough inertia to do so... all you
have to do is offset the anti's inertia. Keeping the pols on
their toes, so to speak, about the issue, is important
too.

-Mike